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Unregistered 22-02-2022 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204140)
From what I've gathered from this forum, what good is liti if it has less pay + more stress lmao
Sinkies really love to get screwed

Unregistered 22-02-2022 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204140)
From what I've gathered from this forum, what good is liti if it has less pay + more stress lmao
More exciting and closer to what you actually studied in law school - analysing cases and constructing legal arguments. A lot of people study law because they are attracted to litigation work (which is what people/mass media associates lawyers with), not corporate work.

Litigators are generally respected more than corporate lawyers by clients because you're the expert who will come save them from trouble. Corp lawyers are often seen as a necessary evil to make a deal happen, or sometimes even an obstacle to pushing a deal through.

If you're good at it, liti can be a financially rewarding career too. Plus it's more stable and less susceptible to being made redundant because your practice area is down. Corp is booming now but ask those corp lawyers who were let go in the last financial crisis.

Unregistered 22-02-2022 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204164)
More exciting and closer to what you actually studied in law school - analysing cases and constructing legal arguments. A lot of people study law because they are attracted to litigation work (which is what people/mass media associates lawyers with), not corporate work.

Litigators are generally respected more than corporate lawyers by clients because you're the expert who will come save them from trouble. Corp lawyers are often seen as a necessary evil to make a deal happen, or sometimes even an obstacle to pushing a deal through.

If you're good at it, liti can be a financially rewarding career too. Plus it's more stable and less susceptible to being made redundant because your practice area is down. Corp is booming now but ask those corp lawyers who were let go in the last financial crisis.
From your second paragraph, people already know you are not even in practice yet.

You can find out for yourself why litigators are leaving in droves on their own accord. Penny pinching clients, unreasonable timings for even the most menial of tasks, hands-free bosses, hours and hours of obscure research on points of law even your clients don’t give a **** about.

Welcome to the real world.

Unregistered 22-02-2022 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204164)
More exciting and closer to what you actually studied in law school - analysing cases and constructing legal arguments. A lot of people study law because they are attracted to litigation work (which is what people/mass media associates lawyers with), not corporate work.

Litigators are generally respected more than corporate lawyers by clients because you're the expert who will come save them from trouble. Corp lawyers are often seen as a necessary evil to make a deal happen, or sometimes even an obstacle to pushing a deal through.

If you're good at it, liti can be a financially rewarding career too. Plus it's more stable and less susceptible to being made redundant because your practice area is down. Corp is booming now but ask those corp lawyers who were let go in the last financial crisis.
Stable at 4k income for 6 years while getting slavedrived. Rewarding indeed.

Unregistered 22-02-2022 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204065)
Ok la been there done that. Started out in small firm doing chapalang, from State Court claims to contracts. Went to mid size firm doing liti. Pay marginally better but boring af . I tell u, working for mid tier local firm is really the dumps. Boring local clients, boring colleagues, boring office, lame firm culture n some weirdass uptight rules. Basically, like any typical sinkie-run company.

Gtfo from there and managed to land inhouse role. I'm not paid fantastic by any means but the amount of free time to shake leg is really unbeatable man. Shiok max. Full WfH. Morning answer a few emails, usually stupid question from sales teams. Bounce some docs back n forth. Pangkang by 430pm go jio friends to drink, meet gf for dinner. Friday is unofficial half day can gym during lunch. Boss and office all slacking anw.

Tldr, slogging it out in a small or mid market local firm is really bo hua one. Same amount of grind is foisted on u without the prestige or pay of a large firm. Know what u want n never stay contented to be exploited.

What is a good in-house package $$ for a 3-4 pqe lawyer with mid sized firm experience?

Unregistered 22-02-2022 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204172)
Stable at 4k income for 6 years while getting slavedrived. Rewarding indeed.
If you are still earning 4k after 6 years, sorry to say but you are bottom of the barrel. Maybe find a new profession?

Unregistered 22-02-2022 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204187)
If you are still earning 4k after 6 years, sorry to say but you are bottom of the barrel. Maybe find a new profession?
This is the sad reality of most small-mid size liti lawyers.

Unregistered 22-02-2022 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204191)
This is the sad reality of most small-mid size liti lawyers.
No lah even those female lawyers with part time arrangement in small firm because of young kids, also paid more than 4k per month

If by 6 years in small firm, you don't nego some kind of profit sharing arrangement with ur boss, then ur stupid and likely cmi in any other industry anyway. At 6PQE, you're probably indispensable to ur boss.

My small firm friends are pulling in ~$15k per month on profit sharing basis. Ofc they do all the work for the files, while boss plays golf. But my friends suka suka go to office at 10-11 am also no problem.

Unregistered 22-02-2022 08:12 PM
Which are the best and worst corp depts in the big4?

Unregistered 23-02-2022 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204285)
Which are the best and worst corp depts in the big4?
Difficult to generalize a clear best and worst. Reputation? Size/type of deals? Quality of life? It is also very team dependent.

If you want to go by pure industry rankings, A&G is widely regarded as the market leader while D&N usually trails behind the other 3 in most corp areas

Unregistered 23-02-2022 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204147)
Sinkies really love to get screwed
Yeah a FT gets away scot-free tax-wise by paying the same tax rate as sinkies while evading the need to serve NS, which is worth at least $750k in 2 years worth of salary for any self-respecting JP/EP.

Unregistered 23-02-2022 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204199)
No lah even those female lawyers with part time arrangement in small firm because of young kids, also paid more than 4k per month

If by 6 years in small firm, you don't nego some kind of profit sharing arrangement with ur boss, then ur stupid and likely cmi in any other industry anyway. At 6PQE, you're probably indispensable to ur boss.

My small firm friends are pulling in ~$15k per month on profit sharing basis. Ofc they do all the work for the files, while boss plays golf. But my friends suka suka go to office at 10-11 am also no problem.
This is generally true.

Unregistered 23-02-2022 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204199)
No lah even those female lawyers with part time arrangement in small firm because of young kids, also paid more than 4k per month

If by 6 years in small firm, you don't nego some kind of profit sharing arrangement with ur boss, then ur stupid and likely cmi in any other industry anyway. At 6PQE, you're probably indispensable to ur boss.

My small firm friends are pulling in ~$15k per month on profit sharing basis. Ofc they do all the work for the files, while boss plays golf. But my friends suka suka go to office at 10-11 am also no problem.
This 15k/month for 6 PQE in small firm lie still getting pushed? Sheesh. Kudos to the legend who threw this out like 600 pages ago and it's just been parroted ever since

Unregistered 23-02-2022 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204416)
This 15k/month for 6 PQE in small firm lie still getting pushed? Sheesh. Kudos to the legend who threw this out like 600 pages ago and it's just been parroted ever since
PROFIT SHARING. Which part of these 2 words are so difficult?

Unregistered 23-02-2022 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204419)
PROFIT SHARING. Which part of these 2 words are so difficult?
Yes yes, the magic words "profit sharing" suddenly turns fiction into fact - keep dreaming that pipe dream. And in THEORY, I will just make equity partner at 2PQE and make half a mill a year. Don't believe? EQUITY PARTNERSHIP. Which part of these 2 words are so difficult?

Unregistered 23-02-2022 02:13 PM
Aquinas law alliance
 
Anyone worked there or did their TC at Aquinas Law? How was it like?

Unregistered 23-02-2022 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204419)
PROFIT SHARING. Which part of these 2 words are so difficult?
If you're just shaking leg and working 11am to 5pm everyday, what profits are you bringing in to be shared? You think money just grows on trees? Be real.

Unregistered 23-02-2022 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204423)
Yes yes, the magic words "profit sharing" suddenly turns fiction into fact - keep dreaming that pipe dream. And in THEORY, I will just make equity partner at 2PQE and make half a mill a year. Don't believe? EQUITY PARTNERSHIP. Which part of these 2 words are so difficult?
Obv not for mediocre SA slaves slogging it out in mid tiers hoping for the EPs to greenlight your ascension to JP, but they'll continue to lead you on for yet another year.

Those working in chinatown firms either sink or swim.

Unregistered 23-02-2022 02:45 PM
Anybody can shed light on the culture and pay at Bird & Bird ATMD? Specifically, in litigation. Since twobirds is well known for IP and tech, are their disputes work usually very tech and IP focused, or do they do more general commercial lit?

Also, how integrated is the ATMD office with the international part? Any chance for secondments or transfers to the UK side?
THanks in Advance

Unregistered 23-02-2022 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204416)
This 15k/month for 6 PQE in small firm lie still getting pushed? Sheesh. Kudos to the legend who threw this out like 600 pages ago and it's just been parroted ever since
Yeah, 15k/month on profit sharing for 6 year PQE lol. Your book must be pretty damn solid when you were already an assoc. Sounds like those grab drivers who boast that they can get 8k income a month.

Truth be told, you would be hard pressed to break 10k a month in salary + profit share in a small firm 8 pqe.

Unregistered 23-02-2022 09:22 PM
How is life like at DSC? How's the pay and culture?

Unregistered 24-02-2022 09:31 PM
Need advice from folks here. No trolls pls.

Got an offer from NUS and SMU JD. But hearing all the negative news, I'm not sure if u shd accept either. Too many haolian fossil lawyers in the industry, they are so ancient that if u put them in the museum, ppl will pay to see them.

But it is such a rewarding career and it is more recession resistant than other career options. And the starting pay is good, mind u typical grad pay for other school is ard 3k.

Pls advise if I shd accept, and if yes, which one.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204776)
Need advice from folks here. No trolls pls.

Got an offer from NUS and SMU JD. But hearing all the negative news, I'm not sure if u shd accept either. Too many haolian fossil lawyers in the industry, they are so ancient that if u put them in the museum, ppl will pay to see them.

But it is such a rewarding career and it is more recession resistant than other career options. And the starting pay is good, mind u typical grad pay for other school is ard 3k.

Pls advise if I shd accept, and if yes, which one.
Recommend SUSS JD.
It’s the only JD program that allows you to keep your day job.
I mean we all need a day job to pay bills and all.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204776)
Need advice from folks here. No trolls pls.

Got an offer from NUS and SMU JD. But hearing all the negative news, I'm not sure if u shd accept either. Too many haolian fossil lawyers in the industry, they are so ancient that if u put them in the museum, ppl will pay to see them.

But it is such a rewarding career and it is more recession resistant than other career options. And the starting pay is good, mind u typical grad pay for other school is ard 3k.

Pls advise if I shd accept, and if yes, which one.

You think law is such a rewarding career but put off by haolian fossil lawyers? Bo ko leng leh. Your experience in the industry will be shaped by these fossils who are your bosses.

Btw, fossil is one thing. Haolian is universal. The new gen of lawyers are just as haolian, except that they broadcast it on LinkedIn as well which makes it worse imo. Many lawyers are insufferably elitist and it just comes with the territory of being one.

To your question, I don't think there's a discernable difference between NUS or SMU JD but SMU one has a more established branding and their career support is better.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204832)
You think law is such a rewarding career but put off by haolian fossil lawyers? Bo ko leng leh. Your experience in the industry will be shaped by these fossils who are your bosses.

Btw, fossil is one thing. Haolian is universal. The new gen of lawyers are just as haolian, except that they broadcast it on LinkedIn as well which makes it worse imo. Many lawyers are insufferably elitist and it just comes with the territory of being one.

To your question, I don't think there's a discernable difference between NUS or SMU JD but SMU one has a more established branding and their career support is better.
please, NUS over SMU always.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204776)
Need advice from folks here. No trolls pls.

Got an offer from NUS and SMU JD. But hearing all the negative news, I'm not sure if u shd accept either. Too many haolian fossil lawyers in the industry, they are so ancient that if u put them in the museum, ppl will pay to see them.

But it is such a rewarding career and it is more recession resistant than other career options. And the starting pay is good, mind u typical grad pay for other school is ard 3k.

Pls advise if I shd accept, and if yes, which one.
Read this blog from a ex SMU JD student, who would not recommend a JD:

://treeofprosperity.blogspot.com/2017/04/my-jd-aftermath-1-adult-education-and.html

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204850)
Read this blog from a ex SMU JD student, who would not recommend a JD:

://treeofprosperity.blogspot.com/2017/04/my-jd-aftermath-1-adult-education-and.html
His heart is obviously not in legal practice, as someone who's a self-proclaimed investment trainer and admits he took the JD out of "sheer vanity".

If you look at it from a pure ROI point of view, there's never a situation where taking a JD will produce better immediate returns than staying in your current career.

There are some people for whom practising law is an aspiration, regardless of their personal reasons or the opportunity and financial cost to them. His sharing fails to take this into account.

Actually if you're looking for pure ROI with the least investment, don't even bother to do law. Find a tech job or be a coder working for Shopee or whichever online shopping website is the current flavour of the month. You don't even need formal education as it can be self-taught.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204853)
His heart is obviously not in legal practice, as someone who's a self-proclaimed investment trainer and admits he took the JD out of "sheer vanity".

If you look at it from a pure ROI point of view, there's never a situation where taking a JD will produce better immediate returns than staying in your current career.

There are some people for whom practising law is an aspiration, regardless of their personal reasons or the opportunity and financial cost to them. His sharing fails to take this into account.

Actually if you're looking for pure ROI with the least investment, don't even bother to do law. Find a tech job or be a coder working for Shopee or whichever online shopping website is the current flavour of the month. You don't even need formal education as it can be self-taught.
The fundamental issue with doing a JD here is that the local salaries simply don't justify making that mid-career or even post-bachelor's commitment to 4 - 5 years of studying + bar examinations + training. It does in the US where the salaries are on average significantly higher (and where there is no concept of training contracts).

Unregistered 25-02-2022 03:25 PM
I'm training at a small corporate law firm and wondering if it's possible to lateral into a bigger firm (e.g. big 4 or mid-term) after I get called. Do firms post job ads for legal executives? My grades are decent (strong second upper from NUS). Thanks!

Unregistered 25-02-2022 06:10 PM
Salaries for mid-size
 
Hi all,

Given the pay raises in Big 4 and several mid-sized firms, does anyone have any info on what the general NQ / 1PQE / 2PQE pay looks like outside of Big 4 now? What's considered competitive?

Thanks!

Unregistered 25-02-2022 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204901)
I'm training at a small corporate law firm and wondering if it's possible to lateral into a bigger firm (e.g. big 4 or mid-term) after I get called. Do firms post job ads for legal executives? My grades are decent (strong second upper from NUS). Thanks!
Give it a shot now - its an employee's market.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204901)
I'm training at a small corporate law firm and wondering if it's possible to lateral into a bigger firm (e.g. big 4 or mid-term) after I get called. Do firms post job ads for legal executives? My grades are decent (strong second upper from NUS). Thanks!
Why are you only looking at a legal executive position?

But anyway, please apply. B4 teams have people lateralling in all the time.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204938)
Hi all,

Given the pay raises in Big 4 and several mid-sized firms, does anyone have any info on what the general NQ / 1PQE / 2PQE pay looks like outside of Big 4 now? What's considered competitive?

Thanks!
Which non-Big 4 mid-size firms have instituted pay rises? Apart from Dentons Rodyk

Unregistered 25-02-2022 09:15 PM
Harassment
 
Junior associate.

Keep getting sent harassing messages from a fellow junior that’s just one year my senior. Recourse?

Partners unaware.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204965)
Junior associate.

Keep getting sent harassing messages from a fellow junior that’s just one year my senior. Recourse?

Partners unaware.
Harassing meaning… work?

If you are busy with other partners’ work, just ignore your fellow junior’s email. And when he/she chase, just say you are currently busy with other partners’ work (naming the partner and matter if possible), and tell him/her that you are unable to assist. If he/she pushes you, just tell him/her if he/she really needs your help to speak to the partners assigning you the other work. Just be polite but firm about it.

However if you are free… just help then.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204974)
Harassing meaning… work?

If you are busy with other partners’ work, just ignore your fellow junior’s email. And when he/she chase, just say you are currently busy with other partners’ work (naming the partner and matter if possible), and tell him/her that you are unable to assist. If he/she pushes you, just tell him/her if he/she really needs your help to speak to the partners assigning you the other work. Just be polite but firm about it.

However if you are free… just help then.

The junior has been micromanaging the trainees as if they are the partner, and regularly makes noise. We are no longer talking.

Regularly disturbs partners and trainees for work. Bullies all newcomers as well.

I am concerned for my trainees as a fellow assoc. How can I help them?

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204976)
The junior has been micromanaging the trainees as if they are the partner, and regularly makes noise. We are no longer talking.

Regularly disturbs partners and trainees for work. Bullies all newcomers as well.

I am concerned for my trainees as a fellow assoc. How can I help them?
This is politics. Subtle, covert - whatever you call it.
The aim is so that people leave and they are last man standing.
Call out this kind of behaviour.
To deal with petty politics, call them out. Ridicule, shame them whatsoever.
Make life difficult.

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204976)
The junior has been micromanaging the trainees as if they are the partner, and regularly makes noise. We are no longer talking.

Regularly disturbs partners and trainees for work. Bullies all newcomers as well.

I am concerned for my trainees as a fellow assoc. How can I help them?
Fk e junior dey

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:34 PM
Which firms has the most office politics and difficult colleagues?

Unregistered 25-02-2022 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 204901)
I'm training at a small corporate law firm and wondering if it's possible to lateral into a bigger firm (e.g. big 4 or mid-term) after I get called. Do firms post job ads for legal executives? My grades are decent (strong second upper from NUS). Thanks!
Now is a great time to lateral to big 4. Local firms are heavily bleeding assocs who are leaving for offshore and in-house. They are desperate for warm bodies and it's an employees market as a poster mentioned before.


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