Need some advice here.

I left MOE before covid and returned during covid.

I recently entertained thoughts of opening posting to HQ as i felt that my school has no plans to groom me to become a KP.

But recently I got promoted to GEO5. This is completely unexpected as I just got promoted to GEO4 in 2022, 1.5yrs after returning to service.

Which leads me to my question, should i stay on since the school seems to be ranking me well and recognizing my efforts and contribution? but no one sound me out on whether i am keen to be a KP

The concept of "average" and "strong" has also changed over the last 5-10 years though.

And history does matter. Some ROs now may not even be teaching as well as his/her subordinate, but in the past they managed to rise up so fast to their current position now.

The bar has been raised so much already.

If we zoom out and look at the bigger picture now, a high performing GEO3 will need to have a portfolio that covers almost everything (IP and non IP related), while specializing in some of his/her strengths (leadership role e.g. IC-ship or being extremely skilled in something). Most of such officers' lives revolve only around work. We can already see so many SEOs and GEO5s (can also guess their ages already) remaining single or childless by choice due to the demand of work. Gotta sacrifice something to climb. Those able to juggle work and everything else are either rare, or have some sort of external support (rich or free spouse, family etc)

There is also that element of luck of having a good RO who fights for you and SLs who are fair.

In a human centric type of industry, your progression is a lot more complex than other sectors like tech or finance. Right here, it is a combination of arbitrary numbers, proper connections and finally, luck.

To put this in a more crude way, the complexity and demand of this industry now ensures a constant flow of officers resigning, remaining stagnant, being recruited and finally, being promoted, no? Bell curve model for fairness, no?

1) If HODs really want to stay in their school, they'll need to either step down or switch to teaching track (or… well, be old).

2) If they choose to retain their HOD appointment and switch school, they'll be forced to work and show their worth in the new environment. For those who aren't able to do so, a number will end up choosing to step down.

Overall, even if it doesn't solve 100% of the 'problem' you have outlined, it's quite likely to reduce it… no?

anyone throwing in letter soon?

Yes. 9th year geo 3 here. Throwing letter on 31 March

i hope that u now don’t inflict suffering on others. takes a lot not to most KPs are vile, at least hypocritical if not downright evil, it’s how the system works. ****ing hypocrites given the profession. am sure many will burn in hell

because of the slow promotion? any plans for next job?

This isn’t really a bad thing? Most jobs have evolved, and the demands of teaching have too.

Teaching your own IP subject is only one part of a modern teacher’s work, there’s many other things that are important and the system has evolved to recognise that.

OP here...typo in my post..what I meant was CEP

there's both good and bad...

but if we look at the "bad", the younger officers have it much worse then those in their 40s and older. the older KPs are also able to escape some of the modern demands, by arrowing their subordinates to do it

I think its a good iniative!! Its like lowkey telling KP to rotate or step down. Either ways it is a win-win. Some kps are too cocky and comfy in their position already.

Are u a diploma grad ?

How old are you and what was your previous job role?

True. The demands of being a teacher now has vastly increased since the 2010s. Those in KP position are privileged at home or do not have children. I see how they work non-stop and get arrows for everything and I feel sorry for them. But then I remember, that’s what they wanted. Those without privileges at home suffer a burnout. Take MCs often. Worth it?

Only the individual can answer that for him or herself.

I'm past 40 and was a programmer team lead

I fully agree that it is not easy to get a D grade, but wondered why the RO and VP worked together in such extent to "kill" this new BT.


Also, I fully agreed that DMs are finding it more difficult to enforce discipline since the kids also know that the school can't do much to them. It also doesn't help that many parents just throw their ill-disciplined kids to the school and ensure they are in the school childcare as well in order to "handover" or "outsource" the teaching to the school. There are even many who signed up their children to endless enrichment classes during weekends and school holidays so that they can "hands off" their kids. There are simply too many parents who don't care or don't know how to teach their children. They expect miracles to happen when they send their kids into the school at 7am and fetch them at 6pm after child care. They don't monitor their work after they fetch them and don't pick up calls when teachers call them giving the excuse that they are busy at work. Some even use their children to take childcare leave by taking MCs so that they can skive from their work when their child is perfectly fine but unable to attend school to learn.

The world is sick now. Many parents want to just give birth but are unable to teach or hold the responsibility to educate their child. Then they blamed it all on teachers. However, teachers cannot complain. There are law and notices to protect doctors and nurses. However, who protect the teachers? The kids can throw tables and chairs and bits and hit the teachers, but the teachers cannot fight back.

The voices of teachers are ignored but the voices of parents are attended to straightaway. Where is the system to protect the teachers?

How much percentage of a pay jump from geo2 to geo3?

Agree with this. Im on my school’s ranking panel for 6 yrs and in that time I have never ever seen a D being given. Even C- is given with huge reluctance and after a lot of debate.

To the younger officers out there, take what you read here with a pinch of salt. Your KPs are not out to get you.

but that’s you n at best your school. some humans are vile. u telling me KPs are saints?

Same situation in my school. We have never given a D and for C-, we are trying to cut to the minimal by giving low performers C but with a lower quantum rather than C-

u mean in a school, there is no need to give any C- at all?

You need to understand that it is actually more troubling and energy sapping for your KPs to justify a bad grade, than to just give a good grade. It makes no sense for them to do it out of no reason.

D is seldom given to teachers but all schools have to give about 5% of their teachers the C- grade. If your school KPs do not like certain teachers, they will give the C- grade to them.

Some KPs manage to climb so fast because they are cunning people and will backstab others to get a leadership position. Some of them only pretend to be nice in front of their JHs but behind their back, tell the school leaders whenever you make a mistake. Of course not all KPs are like that. Some are nice and really will help the teachers..

Anyone know around when will OYEA nominees get the email or letter?

How old are you?

Could be just an accelerated track for you to catch up with your peers of the same age.

Actually there are laws to protect civil servants, which include teachers

The problem is not due to the lack of a law, but the lack of will to enforce the law.

Then I think you’re at the average pace. If you’re CEP has been increased, it’ll be told to you.

Yup there are laws to protect teachers from abusive adults. But not from children and much less special needs children.

Are there many promotees to geo 5A in your schools?

When i read posts like this, i feel sad. It’s kind of naive that you this way. People are imperfect. Read widely and learn to read people.

Yes. 40 is the max.

Prospects
 

Hi i've recently just applied to the PGDE programme and im curious about the career progression and starting pay scale. For some context i am female fresh grad, (local uni) + Masters(NUS) and i've had some teaching experience in a international school for about 2 years (part-time while i was doing my masters). Ive heard that HR will only take into account the honours for your first degree and base your pay on that. Is this true? And will part-time teaching experience factor in into the starting pay?

Also, since i've already taken my masters, are there opportunities to do a PHD/EdD in the future, (e.g. 5 years into teaching?) or will it be reserved only for more senior teachers/ scholars?

Also

Scholarships for masters in teaching are usually given to KPs who had served a good duration of time in MOE, i would say at least 10 years. I have never seen a masters Teaching Assistant in NIE who is in their 30s.

i dont blame some of them for feeling this way though. yes, we can all learn to read people properly eventually. but it doesnt mean the other party will have compassion or empathy for others.

one of the previous posts already mentioned that a certain % of staff must get C-. this means that incompetent people will get it (of course), but also for some people who are targeted, it probably cant be avoided.

if you read the last 20-30 pgs of this thread, there are accounts of both extremes.

take maternity or NPL, still can get B
get challenging workload and do their best, still can get D

and some maintained that most superiors are actually not that evil and will try to let everyone scrape through with at least a C, so we should not take all the outlier stories too seriously

the truth is that the bell curve will always be there, and there are also all kinds of reporting officers out there. all of the above stories are equally possible. nowadays to survive and adapt is tougher, due to the competition and lots of changes in policies.

want to get out of a toxic environment and transfer? not that easy also, with the competition and limited vacancies.

want to remain comfortable (those with good RO protecting/fighting for you)? not for long anymore, with the forced rotation of ROs (according to previous posts).

decide on whats important to you - wanting to climb and learning how to survive the increasing workload and politics, or to stay healthy and sane while just doing mostly what you enjoy, yourself and your family.

Hi, what’s the pay increment from Geo4 to Geo5? From geo5 to seo1?

Civil service pay is based on bachelors. Having masters or phd doesn't mean anything in terms of starting pay. At best a higher cep.

You can take a self-paid masters anytime. If you want a fully sponsored masters, have to apply for postgrad scholarship (more for high cep people).

If you have served long enough, e.g. 10-15 years, you may take a paid sabbatical to do a masters at own expense.

Exactly. There's no reason to intentionally give people C- or Ds purely out of malice at all. It just causes us more trouble.

You can't give C-/D for no apparent reason or without being told on the possibility if performance doesn't improve. So I do find some of the stories about getting C- unexpectedly despite helming important projects and doing well with the jobs assigned bizarre.

Bizarre doesn't mean won't happen haha. There are some who don't follow the usual procedures.

I know someone personally who have gotten 2 Ds before. Thankfully it's not in a row. He stayed at the same subgrade for around 10 years.

Teachers who studied at RI are so typically similar. Can't stop flexing on social media. Wanna have them as your RO?