the systemic change just seems to be a vicious cycle that worsens every year...

cut headcount, increase workload - rinse and repeat

Then don't join the race? Like what exactly do you want? It seems like you all want to do less work and yet rise in the system.

In my school student council chairperson is the person who's shown leadership qualities and inspired their fellow students, not the ones who are the loudest about the work that they do. Maybe, these kids hold a valuable lesson you can learn.

Exactly.

Situation now is that the system is full of market spoilers.

Either because the all-scholar batches are inherently competitive high achievers

And also because cost of living is so high, that non-scholars also need to chase for promotions to get pay raises that match the increase in cost of living

Competition is so cutthroat that the system has turned toxic, where everyone is compelled to provide free labour, to the benefit of the highest management, who can proudly declare that they manage to increase/maintain output while cutting headcounts and expenses.

Gone are the days when ordinary teachers just need to focus on teaching, working regular school hours to get a satisfactory C grade. Those aspiring to get Bs and As just need to sacrifice a little more time on co-curricular stuff to 'go the extra mile'

Today, teachers are expected to break labour laws, working excessive hours beyond the legal 44h work week, just to get a C grade.

And for scholars who have been the cream of the crop their whole life, getting As their whole life, anything less than A is an insult to them.

The old system of appraisal is not working anymore.

Reasonable career progression, but without normalising chronic excessive overwork and excessive sacrifices of other things in life besides work.

Not expecting to fly like EMS or PSC scholars, but also not expecting to be stuck at GEO3, an entry level grade, for 8 years, just because you aren't doing twice or thrice the job that you're paid to do.

Giving 110% or 120% is fine, but glorifying and rewarding people who juggle more side projects than they have fingers and burning weekend after weekend is hurting the system and the culture.

First, please list out what you mean by 'do less work'. What is your definition of 'satisfactory' performance, aka C grade.

While civil servants are excluded from the employment act, but MOM's definition of a 44h work week still serves as a useful guideline for all workers.

Also according to MOM laws, no one should be working over 12h a day, or do over 72h of overtime each month (roughly 18h of overtime a week)

No one should be expected to work for free. Or, do be expected to do unpaid OT on a permanent basis.

For any law-abiding employer, 'satisfactory' work performance is assessed based on reasonable amount of workload that an ordinary human being can complete during their working hours.

Can sticking to 44h work week get an ordinary teacher a C grade?

Can working beyond 44h/week guarantee a C+ or better grade?

If yes, I rest my case.

If no, it means that something is seriously wrong with the system.

Everyone should have at least 25-30h of contact time (lessons, FT, CCA, CCE etc)
Assuming a typical load of 5 classes * 40 students, and minimally 1 piece of homework to be marked each week, and assuming consistent superhuman efficiency of 5min/piece of homework, it would still take more than 16h to to complete marking for each week. Just teaching and marking is enough to exceed the 44h work week.

Haven't factor in staff meeting, subject/level meetings, CCAs, lesson prep, committee work, paper setting, and other duties.

Can say no to all these?

Can. Say no and tender now.
So many other jobs around, can try to find something else.

just got my fhq offer, quite surprised, does my P and RO know?

u think they dont know is it

HR will engage your principal to discuss this before issuing you the offer. Hi-Po officer but still so blur ah? Real or not.

GEO3 after 8 years? Look after we moved away from a time in service to a performance based system, people really need to stop thinking that they're entitled to a promotion just for being a warm body. In a career spanning 30+ years, if you're keen on just floating by and doing the bare minimum you must be prepared that your two promotions to Geo4 and 5 will take a longer time over those 30 years
Have a look at that table where you see that there are people who are GEO4 and even 5 after 8 years. Why do you think you deserve to get promoted over those who worked hard to get where they are, while you just want to coast. Why do YOU deserve that promotion over them?

Because the goalposts have shifted. In the past, "just being a warm body" could entail just floating around and doing the bare minimum, leaving school at 2pm everyday and burdening your department colleagues, committee members and team mates by not contributing to shared work. You're implying that we condone this.. we're absolutely not condoning this behaviour. You're missing the point.

Nowadays, with all these go-getters and tryhards burning their nights, weekends and holidays, it seems like people who do not want to do so are no longer recognised as well, regardless of their potential, abilities and impact of their contributions during the reasonable work hours and job scopes that they take up.

It is one thing to recognise high levels of efficiency, output, innovation and impact WITHIN reasonable working hours/schedules. It is another to glorify people who spend most of their waking hours working, and consequently condemning those who prefer reasonable balance. It is no different from grade inflation at national exams, or shifting of bell curves because of market spoilers.

GEO3 is an entry level, junior subgrade. Read the KRAs to understand why this is so.

If someone is GEO3 after 8 years, it communicates to them that their contributions are not much more valuable and impactful than that of a third year Beginning Teacher. It communicates to them that they are still entry-level despite spending a decade in service.

This is like the straight A student who puts his peers down by telling them they deserve their shitty grades because they didn't burn the midnight oil regularly and therefore they do not deserve opportunities in life.

The point here is: why normalise burning the midnight oil? Why is burning the midnight oil now the basic requirement for someone to chase their aspirations?

Hope this analogy helps to get it through your thick skull.

Don't be angry, some people are really married to their jobs and see no problem with the lack of work-life balance. Work-life balance is "baloney" anyway, right?

That's the sad thing about Singapore working culture and management mindsets. If you don't sell your entire soul to your job, you don't deserve to advance in your career at all. If you care about work-life balance, then some people would assume that you don't care about your job, you don't care about your students and colleagues, and you don't care about the organisation.

Taking care of yourself and taking care of your job/career should not be mutually exclusive, but some people are actively trying to make it so. We have one fine example in this thread who has been heavily brainwashed by top civil servants who "can't detach themselves from their GoMAX devices" and seem to have half heads of white hair and wrinkles on their faces even in their mid-40s. I wonder why.

we're all quite surprised at the fact that you're surprised haha

how did u receive the fhq offer? :) are u a scholar? :)

And many do tender.

Which is why almost every school has a shortage now

Headcount is reduced, but work is not cut and instead redistributed among increasingly overworked staff, and exacerbating resignations and movements in the next posting cycle.

Because GEO at the end of the day, is STILL a timescale grade.

GEO5s or 5A, at the end of the day, based on job description, are still ordinary classroom teachers. They are at this rank, because they have experience, and are fully capable of performing the work of an ORDINARY teacher independently without requiring additional guidance from anyone else.

GEO3 is basically for people who completed their BTship. In other words, they still have a lot of basic stuff such as workflow, T&L stuff, and administrative procedures yo learn. GEO4 is somewhere in between.

Unless someone has a serious attitude problem, it is unlikely for anyone to take so long to acquire all the knowledge expected of a GEO3.

8 years to learn the basics? Seriously?

looks like some management and HR giving lame reasons to drag someone's promotion for 8 years or more..
reasons we can give is that salary has increment in relation to inflation
are u familiar of the term blacklisted

Teachers have been "quiet quitting" even before that term existed. That is probably the only solution to the ever increasing workload.

How do teachers get shortlisted for FHQ?
What are the requirements?

High CEP + young age (regardless of scholar/farmer status). The exact CEP and the exact age cutoff is not publicly known.

Or, received EMS or PSC scholarships and automatically emplaced on a special talent development programme, which guarantees FHQ.

Yes, if someone takes 8 years and can't clear that basic hurdle why do we blame the system. It really means there's something wrong with the person.

If performance has been 'satisfactory' during that 8 years, why would it be that person's fault?

In 8 years (and more actually when including the geo2 years), pretty sure that officer would have been deployed in quite a number of roles, taught all the different syllabuses across levels and streams, and would have developed a fairly high level of understanding on the running of routine school level tasks (cca, school events, exam duties ie.)

Skills-wise, should be more knowledgeable than a BT.

There is no such thing as quiet quit.

It is only fair to work for what one is paid for

It is a job, not a charity.

That is why descriptions like "teaching is a calling", negatively impacts all teachers.

If they can't clear the hurdle they should be given C-, D grades and placed on performance review process.

If they meet all expectations of the job of a regular classroom teacher, they should be promoted out of such a junior grade in a shorter time.

Yet there are many GEO3s who have been stuck at the grade for 8 or more years without ever being on PRP or getting a C- and below. Why? Does every GEO3 need to hold internal KP appointments before they can even smell a reasonable promotion interval? This is what I mean by shifted goalposts. Internal appointments are evolving to become the 'norm' to help good young officers avoid stagnation and hopefully retain them rather than losing them to other more promising careers.

I'm not any of the previous posters, but I just thought that I should put forth some observations in the last 2 decades or so.

10-20 years ago, spending 8 years in GEO3 is almost unheard of unless some glaring mistakes have been committed. Most officers will sail through promotions smoothly with just average C grades. This made the job a lot more attractive to fresh grads, and competitive enough to reduce job hops and resignations, and hence, reduce talent drain. Since there was a demand, people passed the interviews easily. Hiring was increased by:

- Rewarding fresh hires with lump sums
- Attracting midcareers
- Faster promotions
- Creating new higher appointments (the "newly developed" ST track was quickly occupied and saturated by officers or even ex-KPs within a few years)

Eventually this created another possible problem - too many people obtaining higher grades and appointments too quickly. These people are now the late Gen X who are GEO5s, or even STs and KPs. Since there is no brutal "termination" guideline (similar to the whole public service), many of these people hit their ceilings or get to attain high appointments quickly. Some resort to just coasting comfortably. Some older ones may delegate work downwards to younger hires to "groom them for more recognition and faster promotions".

Don't misunderstand. If we look at some of the previous posts, not all KPs are bad examples. But many who earn respect are usually the real hard workers or good managers. Your RO, usually a KP, also does play a role in determining your progression/promotion rate. They need to help you fight, and the SLs also need to agree with their proposal.

Nowadays, it seems common to take many years for just 1 promotion, even when no major mistakes have been committed. The big picture is probably guiding whoever is in control to "pull apart the bell curve" so that it doesn't get overly skewed to the right. They do not want the same phenomenon to repeat itself, to further saturate the system by:

- Greatly reducing recruitment
- Slowing promotion
- Limiting KPship or their progression
- "Encouraging" secondment to other sectors (and hopefully the officer will job hop and reduce numbers)
- Cut/tighten increments (doing it since COVID is a smart and "timely" move)
- Processing resignations more quickly

Just like how some of you have used analogies of student performance - its like how much more difficult national exams have become in recent years. Some feel that the bar needs to keep getting raised to differentiate ability and talent further.

The older Gens were "lucky" in a way - joined at a good time with high demand, fast promotions, great increments and adjustments with just average performance.

The younger Gens lost out more - overworked much but hardly any tangible returns or recognition. Bad timing, bad luck.

Technically, no one is wrong or at fault. Looking at the big picture again, certain sectors have had their own rise and fall. The tech sector is one of the best examples in recent years. As adults, everyone just has to decide which career choice is best for ourselves, especially if you're "unlucky".

Interesting fact as well - for Budget 2023, Defence is still allocated the highest budget. Education has fallen to 3rd place and overtaken by Healthcare.

Feel free to form your own opinions from these.

"developed a fairly high level of understanding" - > that's an assumption isn't it. Why is it hard to believe that some people remain stuck at a particular level even after all that time.

I mean let's be realistic here

1. Capable people don't join the civil service
2. Capable civil servants aren't found in the Ministry of Education

Ergo, there are some truly bottom of the barrel people who are found in MOE. Despite all their grousing, they stay in because they know that their 5k plus as a GEO3 is better than what they can get outside.

Does every GEO3 need to hold internal KP appointments before they can even smell a reasonable promotion interval - > why do you ignore that there are many others who get promoted in due course. Look at the list that gets posted once in a while for goodness sake! You have 5-8 yr officers who are in Geo4 and 5. But hey let's ignore all those and keep harping on that minority that doesn't get promoted.

In sure someone will retort that the ppl posting are scholars. But as another person pointed out, nowadays most new moe officers are scholars are some sort so that term is effectively meaningless.

The data here is likely skewed in a very similar way to the Graduate Employment Surveys and related salary surveys. Reporting bias. Higher achievers have a higher than average tendency to respond. The sample size is tiny away, how is it possible to assume that a thread on salary.sg is representative of any significant part of the service?

Trust me, there are a lot of people stuck unfairly at GEO3 that are more than able to function as a full-fledged teacher and contributor to the school community. Sure, they're not OYEA/PAT calibre, but they're way beyond BTs now.

You dismiss the sample size here that's based on self reporting and your counter example is `trust me bro'. How is that any different?

Look around you. In your own school.

8 Years No Promotion - I think if so long still can't promote, can reflect a bit? Think usually there is something not quite right one lah about the officer. Tbh, usually these officers can't see their problem, or refuse to admit it, which actually is the root of all evil and why they are stuck.

The Market Spoilers - Don't be so entitled about promotions and stuff. And to label others as "market spoilers" is v childish. Maybe you don't want to invest your heart into the work, but srsly don't brandish someone else who is willing to do so negatively. At the end of the day, their hard work touches lives and benefits our students, why so salty as an adult?

I am Gen Y. I worked my ass off for 4 years in a toxic place where many young gen Y officers were striving to get ahead. I initially asked myself why I did not get a KP position after getting Bs and C+(promotion year). I blamed the Gen X everyday. but I came to learn that if my heart is always where promotions and positions are, i will become bitterly disppointed each time during promotion time. i decided to focus on why i joined teaching - it was the kids. I left the toxic sch to join another sch. the receiving P appreciated my hard work and made me a SH. then when the 2nd sch started to get toxic because of some HODs, I decided to leave because my focus did not align with those toxic people. I left during open posting to find another P who will appreciate me.

in summary
1. my heart should be with the kids. Our job impacts their lives.
2. the impact on the kids is visible to all.
3. Do not keep expecting promotion. It will come most unexpectedly
4. Do not focus on what i are doing only, look at others for inspiration. It is easy to talk about my own contributions, but not about others. Motivate yourself.
5. The KRA is a guide. Not a Salvation document for promotion

I am blessed but I also recognise that I need to work hard and act to ensure that I do not suffer. I move schools to protect myself and find like-minded people. No place is perfect... if I have to bend my principles and values to adapt, I will not stay. I will not join toxicity. stay true to your job, be there for the kids, then aspire to what you want to or can achieve.

I only had 1 person who was geo3 for 8 years. Frankly he deserved to be stuck. Whines about his delayed promotion but always do half assed job whenever he is given something to do
Then dare to say that he is over worked. Guy deserved his D grade.

So, GEO3 people who stay there for a long time are truly bottom of the barrel teachers.

Agree that KRA is a guide. How many years have you been in service?

see, there's something kinda weird about this, because yes, we all do agree that such people should remain stuck...

but what about people who get consecutive C+ or B grades, but are ALSO stuck?

then some other guy's post mentioned "oh it's because limited CEP"

this is all rather contradicting in the end isn't it?

there does seem to be some truth to the fact that promotions are slowing down a lot and "low CEP" is often used as a common reason

Yup, it's common enough for decent performing teachers (C+ and occasional B) to be stuck at GEO3 for 4 to 6 years. And it's very jarring and demoralising to see some officers fly from GEO3 to 4 to 5 within 6 years total. Are such officers actually three times better than the others?

wait till you see those 6 years to seo1. consecutive years from 4 to 5, then seo1.

Actually the solution would be to double the ranks for Geos. So it goes from GEO3 to GEO8. This would also make the salary range within each level to be much tighter.

That way, the human brain can get that short burst of pride at getting promoted and helps to smoothen progression over their 30 year career.

Nothing would change fundamentally but it helps to trick that little reptile part of our brain that there's some form of career progress.