if people were to delve into the individual figures and ranges, they can't be tricked lol. in a sense only more gullible people will fall for this. i believe for the newer gens of teachers, they are smarter and savvy with information.

with tighter ranges, people will hit ceilings earlier - highly likely for them to quiet quit. unless you reduce the increments further too? but that doesn't solve the congestion issue. it only makes the younger gens resign earlier in pursuit of more competitive compensation.

The compensation is simply not commensurate with the workload. It is not unreasonable to expect teachers to keep up with the emergent demands of today, in order to prepare the kids for the future. Most of us agree that almost all of the work we do is meaningful. But therefore, since the workload is not going to be reduced any time in the foreseeable future, we simply need to invest more $$ especially to retain the genuine talent that is present in the service. Not just hire/give scholarship, but fall short of their expectations, then lose them after their bond (or even during their bond).

Yes, the education service is an expensive bill to the taxpayers, but since when did talent and quality come cheap?

If you have been given an internal position and told that you will be groomed for a formal position, how long would it usually take? In the mean time, is it possible for them to assign someone external to take over the formal position which is currently open?

hi. end of this year - 12 years

If you have been offered an internal position and informed that you are being groomed for a formal position, how long does it usually take?

Why not ask your SLs and/or RO? There's no norm. You have to ask them specifically what they have in mind for you.

I have seen schools that give internal appointments only to Hi-Po GEO3s just before they get promoted to GEO4. Once they hit GEO4 in April they are put up for interview in the mid-year cycle, and formally appointed in June or the following Jan.

I have seen schools that adopt a school-level SOP of 2 years internal appointment, regardless of subgrade, before being evaluated for readiness to go up for interview.

I have seen schools that hold people on internal appointments for 3-4 years.

Nah, it's got nothing to do with promotion for the sake of promotion. The name/number of the subgrade means nothing. It's got all to do with getting a fair salary for the work done. All experienced classroom teachers do the same job at heart, so there's no reason for such wide salary disparity.

I'm sure regular classroom teachers with no management aspirations won't mind being stuck at the GEO5/5A ceiling for a long time, rather than getting pathetic 2% increments per year and getting their two promotions spread out evenly across the next 30 years.

"Spreading out promotions to sustain motivation" is a pathetic line of reasoning for slowing down promotions, because anyone with common sense can see that the area under the curve over one's whole career is larger the sooner one hits 5/5A and/or the ceiling.

PSC scholar ma. MOE HR is accountable for his progression. Not young already.

You really think that the younger teachers are smarter and more savvy? Do you see the kind of questions I this thread where a simple search would suffice - "when does open posting start", "When will the connect plan pay out"?, "if I quit before x date, will I still qualify for connect plan pay out?" "what's the difference between open and closed posting"

Way to generalize! 👏

People who come here and waste time flaming each other or asking dumb questions are at the bottom of the barrel. The average teacher doesn't even bother, they're doing their work on school days and having a life during the weekends and holidays.

Yes, possible. Have seen cases where the internal KP got played out by the P.

Well said. No one cares about the rank.

The reason why they chase after ranks, is because it is tied to salary.

The average performer will hit the salary ceiling of geo3 in 4-6 years.

If still haven't promote before hitting ceiling, it basically means that any increase in workload is not compensated by any increase in pay. Coupled with inflation, pay will lag behind similar-age peers even more.

Also, the higher the base pay, the higher the increment. The faster one promote, the earlier one can hit the geo5/5a ceiling (which isn't too shabby)

Generalising that younger gen = more savvy is ok

Generalising that younger gen = more spoon fed is not ok

Why?

Bro this is a forum, not an encyclopedia.

I think have but quite rare la. I heard of one but because change of P... and the new P was quite an ass.

2022] GEO3: 3900-6250
[2022] GEO4: 4800-7700
[2022] GEO5: 5150-8250

This is the current salary range for geo3-5. Assuming an average performer gets a $200 annual merit increment you're looking at ~11 years to go from 3900 - 6250. How would a person be able to hit the salary ceiling in the time u claim. Anyway, for the average performer at the very latest, they will get promoted in their 7th year. If you're taking longer than that, "bottom of the barrel" applies.

As I mentioned, the wide salary range gives rise to unhappiness. If geo4 was split into 2, from 4800 - 6200 and 6200 - 7700, what would be lost?

Just randomly passing by here, but I just wish to correct some things.

1. The annual merit increment for an average performer is lower than 200.

2. Most offixers between GEO3 - 5 went through the COVID years, where the annual increment was so low that its almost insignificant (heard it was $50 or something?). That's 3 years of delay there.

3. There's also the issue of officers getting consecutively good grades of C+ and B, but are not promoted. We should collectively agree that these people shouldn't be at the "bottom of the barrel", otherwise why would they deserve good grades?

As for splitting the salary grades...no comment. There's both good and bad for that I suppose

Timing and luck is everything

I gotten 4 C+ and 1 B and still stuck in Geo 3, 8 years liao.

8 years in service, or 8 years in geo3?

How to reach ceiling?

Because most GEO3s don't begin at 3900?

Fresh out of uni GEO2s are already drawing that.

FCH starting salaries was around 4300 last time. Higher with the most recent adjustments.
Slightly more for males with NS increment.
Cohort promotion to GEO3 will increase salary by another $500 or more.

Annual increment is not a fixed sum for everyone. It is based on a percentage of one's salaries. The higher your base pay, the higher your increment.
Increment roughly around 2-3%.

Quite common to hit geo3 ceiling in 5-6 years.

I took 5 years to move from GEO 3 to 4 then another 7 years from GEO 4 to 5.

Not holding any position, mostly Cs with occasional B and C+ right before promotion

Why must take FCH? People with first class are at the very top by definition aboto start with. Note that this is about their educational and not work performance. So to use an FCH person and say "it's common to max the salary ceiling is absurd as an FCH person is a tiny minority

Let's use a truly average person then

Starting salary= 3900
Year 1 (cohort promotion) 3900 +700 =4600
Year 2-6 (annual MI) = 4600 +(200 x5) =5600

Where is the maxing the salary cap in 4-6 years come about? I'm here using numbers to show how it's not possible for an "average person". So for the people claiming that an "average person" can max in 5-6 years with a C grade, show your working pls.

wtf. My cohort promotion in 2018 I only got +475.

Nowadays cohort promotion +700??

Also starting salaries all above 4k now, including for second upper, second lower

GEO3 here (4th year in grade). Your math is correct.
I'm a 2UCH and my numbers match yours. MI was slightly lower during Covid but this was balanced out by a 9% salary revision.

I will likely max out in another 3+ years.

Just wanted to add. Indeed FCH are a minority of a graduating cohort. However, with more selective and decreased hiring, and with a large % of GEO3s being scholars... large proportion of GEO3s are going to be FCH or 2UCH. Anyway, FCH and 2UCH now command the same starting salary - one of MOE's moves to "de-emphasise" on grades and qualifications.

Total GEO2(T) and GEO3 promotion should add up to 700.
Starting salary for PDGE at GEO2(UT) is around what the OP mentioned.

Your numbers are correct. I'm a GEO3 (4th year in grade) and my numbers are around the same as your calculations. Starting salary being during PDGE. Lower MI during Covid was balanced with the salary revision. I should max out in another 3+ years if I'm still GEO3.

Anyway, most MOE hires nowadays are FCH or 2UCH especially with the more selective hiring. Don't forget that so many are scholars. FCH and 2UCH have the same starting salary in my batch.

Thank you for sharing! Sounds about right.

Not surprising. Promotion rate is slower these days. Maybe your CEP is low. But assuming 5 grades (4 C+ and 1 B) in GEO3, your promotion to GEO4 is about due, just going by duration in grade. In my school, the average performers (C and C+) take 6-8 years to be promoted. Hope you get your promotion next year!

for those shocked about the higher starting base and larger increments for the freshly hired - this is to make the career attractive for the first 3 - 4 years. otherwise the ministry will lose out to other industries. however the compensation will also stagnate very quickly compared to other industries.

anyway, somehow the debates in the previous posts are missing the main point.

there are groups of people who hit their ceilings earlier and there are some who take longer. but the main point is the people on top don't take such things into consideration for promotions.

this is also the reason why the resignation rate is actually higher for the younger officers while the older ones (who have nowhere to go) stay since they don't have much choice.

MOE already lose to other ministries, don't need to say other industries. Lol. The progression is a joke. Yes, teaching is a calling and students are at the heart of everything we do. But to have some form of career aspirations is also human. No matter how much you serve with your heart, hentak kaki (whether in terms of salary, or appointment, or both) is sooner or later demoralising.

I do agree with your viewpoint. I am so much happier teaching in the classroom and interacting with students.I do harbour career aspirations and I do compare to how my PGDE peers did in their teaching careers as compare to mine. I won’t go into details but I am doing relatively ok but I am at a point of my life whereby I hope to take things a bit slower and focus more on my own kids. But it’s so hard to do that in Singapore considering the mortgage pressure and standard of living that I am used to. Anyone form of advice or words of wisdom are truly appreciated.

A Geo3 maxes at 6200. Can someone earning 6200 really say that they are struggling to survive financially?

I'm sure someone will come by and say "what about taking care of aged parents??" if that's really the case, even 10k salary not enough k

Hentak kaki in terms of real income is real. Sure they give 2% every April and 5% last October. But how much has CoL increased?

The number goes up but the real purchasing power drop drop drop like grapes

Everywhere also same. Public sector, private sector, all like that.

Need to point out that for those who quit, there are quite a few who couldn't find a better job and end up becoming FAJT and trying to get back into the teaching system.

aiyo teacher life so good u see how many are on holiday now
per year got so much free holiday not counting annual leave
really paid too much in this day and age

Total compensation is rather decent plus stability which makes this sector worth consideration. If go private have to prepare to slog it out and no certain of retaining in your forties and fifties.

It's the expectations actually. There are also many who never looked back. Many who started from scratch elsewhere and are happy.

Those who wish to come back are the usually the ones expecting other industries to match their last drawn salary, which is almost impossible because most industries don't see "teaching" as a relevant skillset. The skillsets in education are seen as non-transferable by others.

Hence, for those hired here - either stay and accept everything, or leave and start from scratch outside. It's a choice I guess.

Annual leave your head.

Teachers get more holidays than most people get annual leave, that's true. About 2 weeks in June and 2.5 to 3.5 weeks in December. That's about 25 working days per year. But the tradeoff is that they can only travel during those times, and are not allowed to take any vacation leave outside of these periods.

There is work during the school holidays too. Who is going to do the planning for next year?

All those private sector think they jin satki one,

come into a classroom with 40+ Gen Z teens with diverse learning readiness and achieve all the lesson outcomes without a single one of them getting bored of your **** and start watching on their PLD

Very easy job, teachers overpaid af