if hire from nus, you must look at their software engineering grades + no of internships

if hire from nus, you must look at their software engineering grades + no of internships to determine how good are they

pls learn how to list your functional requirement properly. its a basic skill of any fresh cs grad

Dude, its definitely not tech ******** talk. Requirements plays an important role between clients and your project manager, should the requirements be vague.

Especially when the project manager does not verify each requirements with the client, the cost of changing the requirement at a later stage will incur a significant cost. That is why the project manager must always reach a consensus with the client and should there be a scope creep, client will have to pay for the extra cost with extended deadline if applicable.

From the way you are doing things, it clearly shows that you are not experience at all.

I'm the boss of Google.
I just hold a meeting with you
I tell you what I want.
Just go and do it.
Come back to me in 9 days when you're done.
Donr bother me with your specifications.
I hired you pay you high pay to figure things out
If I have to tell you everything I might as well write the code and hire a toddler for 10 bucks to just type it out for me.

How about you write the code out with whatever requirement you have.
In the real world everything is subject to change. Today is just support pc. Tomorrow is support in console.
Next month its xbox and ps2.
Your code must be adaptable.

Typical fresh grad mentality everything need to be provided to them. Nobody will craft out every single requirement. For you la. Then you can trsnalate noun to class. Verb to function meh.

Idiots software people.
Just do it. We don't pay you 5k so we can provide the work to you.
Requirement specs. Test specs. Documentation. Manual. User guide. Troubleshooting.eberuthjbf is also we pay you to do.

Not your senior. Not your boss provide to u.
Understand fresh grad??

This is why govtech developers are highly paid. We adopt agile and scrum.
Basically the requirement we get from the government is just like that. Basic. And we fill in the blanks ad we go.

Eg trace together. If we were to adopt your traditional defunct way of software development (by not actually developing the software) we will still be discussing and arguing back forth what is the requirements for trace together.

Instead we start with the most basic requirement of what trace together does. Then we evocle our code agile. Each cycle is evident by actual code. Not some silly documentation describing how the system will work in the imaginary world.

This is why fresh grad lack working experience.
We don't pay high 5k starting pay to fresh grad to not write code and talk about requirements.

Doesn't make sense to hire such expensive resource to sit there for months 5k each month to not write any code but just thinking and mentally designing a system in the imaginary world.

When the gahmen want a website for mask go where. It's a snap of the finger. Not discuss all the requirements for years... We simply don't have the luxury to ********.

Join us in govtech. We pay you high but we work and expect alot from you.
If you don't have the talent and skills don't waste the tax payer money.

Our goal is to improve the Singapore life with tech. Your goal is to drag prokect long to justify employing you for years with little to nothing to show for.

It's time real software tech talent take back the world of tech from stupid people who can't code like you and want to get high paid just by association to the "tech" world.

You sure govtech works like this? Which dept are you from btw? I go verify with my friends in there

Government digital services (GDS)

Honestly use your brain. Nobody have the time to type out hundreds of pages of detailed requirements.
The less nonsense paper work we do. The more time we can spend on developing the product.

I think your friend must be those who cannot make it. Can't code. Can't do much. End up just do paperwork support requirement. Those job just do to fulfill audit.

Need to pay so high pay for software developer to write requirements spec? What a joke. Your friend.

i ask for 7k only but i had pending offer due the nxt day. So my guess is the recruiting team yolo and decided to give me an offer i cannot reject

how much stock u getting?

Really cannot reject. Gratz gratz. I also find if u got smth to leverage they pay you higher.
Ty for responding.
I got lesser base and no rsu. :(
Your role is SWE?

you really need to know the difference between pm and dev lol

Fresh Cs grad ah. This shows you are so fresh you never work in tech before.

Your customer. Either external or internal are not tech people.
Most of the time it will be you go into meeting room they just bla bla want this want that.
The rest is YOUR job to figure it out.

Aka the functional requirement is you type out.jf you ask user to provide they will just type what they think.
E.g app can transfer money. That's all they know. The specifics transfer from what account. Interr bank can? Got fee? How to handle error fallback? Need to store report log or not...

All this is YOUr job to figure out. Whether you want to use mutex or synchronisation context. Or async code. Or save to databse or if too slow. Store in redis first. Or pump it out to a scalable message queue so another service will process it? Fault tolerant? Repayable... How you design it is your experienced.. And skills.

Not user give you all the requirement to teach you how to code.
Oh dear. This is the type of dumb fresh grad Singapore produce.

Even if you are fch type our all the detailed requinenrds that you can think off.uoir user will not read. Say why so much details. Don't understand so can't sign off the requirement.

Ask you to dumb it down to basic requirement.

Need diagram picture etc.
After you spend all that time. Their requirement change. Or too expensive.
So we pay you 5k so much to do pointless paper work.

Delusional fresh grad thinking tech job is high paid glamorous.
It's long hours. Insuffient details. Unknown risk. Bug. Can't work. Why can't work. Must work. No time.
Pressure from customer. Bug. Test. Fix. Rework.forget the code do what. Read code.. Don't know how to woeife the code. Not sure how to do it....

Nobody in the actual working tech world is bothered with Requiment other than just to collect payment. Cause this phase delivered liao...

ya backend.. i know someone got 70k and no rsu.. if they lowball u might as well go somewhere else (viki, grab, bytedance, etc)

LOL I got offered 72k with 3mths bonus(not guaranteed). I took the job cause my other offers paid wayy lower and it was exactly what I wanted to do. how do I tell HR i want rsu? LOLOL

In a real tech company where fresh grads are indeed offered 6-7k, usually the requirements are defined by business teams, then product teams, then handed down to SWEs to see if its feasible (we do tech design, estimate resource, design sys arch etc). If not feasaible, we explain and try to reach a middle ground. Then we start development.

If a company can't afford to separate job scopes to business & product teams to handle clients and settle external requirements, and then internal requirements with dev / infra team, then obviously they can't afford to pay 6-7k...

And if you are from SME and have to handle everything yourself (like what you mentioned), your company obviously can't pay 6-7k for fresh grads, and shouldn't.

So I don't see what's so hard about accepting fresh grads at proper tech companies are already earning 1.5/2x experienced devs in SMEs..

eh i also got offered same as you (72k and pb of 1-3mths). I heard RSU during your appraisal then decided cause you fresh grad, need see performance.

Already accepted then cant lo. Find another job and renege or jump to another coy after 1 year.

Gumxia now this is nice new. Human sometimes abit greedy HAHAHA. I mean this is pretty close to my dream job. pay wise I confirm lower than my colleagues, but my colleagues very experienced. Im thankful I have I have a job that I like, pays very well and is what I want to do.

yes, if we are taking about the same company, then the colleagues are very experienced. Most of them fished from other big tech companies so their pay sure damn high, but they have the know-how to back it up. I'm happy with my high pay, but even happier that I can learn so much from them. Hope you can find those opportunities too.

bro, 5k for fresh grad is 5 years ago la

u should just outsource overseas and travel there once a month;
many company do dev work outside singapore if they don't have tax rebates

I'm disheartened I applied for the same program as my classmates NUS comp Sci

I'm FCH.
He's 2nd upper.

He got the job.
I didn't.

My interview consists of technical programming assignments and interview.
His only verbal interview.

Yes the job position is different. But I have better education. Better cert. Better qualification.
And more tedious interview process.

He got the job.
I didn't.

Whoever thinks FCH has it easy in life, you're dead wrong.
We worked twice as hard if not more to be successful.

Yet more often than not people see us as a threat to their intellectual ability.
Oh well, time to try for another position

If you want the easy life, you should apply for his position.

Since your position have a different job scope and prospect, of course the hiring criteria is different.

Another thing to consider is starting salary.

If you are asking way more than him, then it make sense for the company to hire the cheaper worker with a similar quality.

Or be a women in tech

Woman can code meh?

Today I have a demo session to show my code progress.

But I can't finish.
So I took mc.

My boss just called me tell me to rest but the team still née to see the demo next Monday.
I told her I'm sick can't possibly code today. Drowsy medicine..

She said I have Saturday and Sunday.
She also say she will schedule the demo at the end of Monday so I also have Monday.

I'm like erm "am I supposed to work on the weekend."
She said "you been working on this task for 3 month if you can show us any progress, we can't pass your probation"

I'm like "what probation?"
She said "don't you know the first 3 months of the job is probation."

I said "but I already sign the contract as perm staff"
She said. "we will see. Get some rest"

I'm so disturbed now.

Must be women in tech

stop giving yourself excuses. a setback only and you start with the im FCH i work harder so i deserve it will not get you anywhere. Do better at your interview next time

Get wrecked.
My company does the same too. Yes we pay those fresh grad ridiculous 5k starting pay.
But we expect senior quality work.

The same we use the 3 months probation clause mom to terminate them if they cent perform
All this kids. Think you get a high paid job that's the end of it.

Boy, it's just a start or endless time you have to step up and prove your worth.
Can't do? Quit. We have a fresh bunch of fresh grad next year to recruit who is willing to work overtime for 5k.

And no, even Facebook or Google they terminate their staff if they breach contract like nda or take phooey o or post hate social media post. Etc.

Ours not to that degree. Just very simple.
If you can't deliver the work, get Terminated.

Your peers with average pay the company more humane.
We can't. We have high paying consumer who demand result.
We pay you high also demand result.

Get wrecked boy. Hahaha. Love it.

FCH can only succeed in places where they hire fch.
That limits the job market.

I honestly also wouldn't hire fch. We simply just can't afford to pay them higher pay.
We just need average people to get the work done at average pay.

So the only right thing to do is to reject the FCH so they can go to Microsoft. Google or etc.
Am I wrong?

Anyway if there is a fch who want to join our startup, we also will raise red flag. Maybe we are his last choice.
So reject.

Also don't feel like having daily intellectual debate wirh fch at work. Would prefer average worker who know when to work and when to slack and eat snake.

Should I change job?

Initially I though tech job will have projects like 1 to 2 years.
So you can work on 1 project from the start to the end for 2 years.

So you get to prioritise your time and schedule..
But I feel like all my deadline are so tight. Few weeks. Few months. Then this project.
That prokect.

Totally no time to relax.
And when I ask the boss why don't we hire more resources.
He say hire you 3 already use up all the budget...

Hmm he is kinda right. 3 of us is 15k per month. That's 180k per year just to maintain us.
Not sure how govtech can afford so many hundreds of high paid developers.

Maybe my company is too small? Online education company.. Client mostly overseas. High demand now die to covid.

Or should I try govtech? Will they also pay me 5k?
Can I quit if I haven't work for 1 year?

To be honest, all industry are like this once you pass the junior role.

Once they start to pay you as a senior role, they expect result.

It doesn't matter if the sky is going to drop, you still have to deliver the result.

Now going in Gov Tech is not easy, you will have to compete with other graduates to get inside.

All project based jobs are like that, they will not give you only one project to handle. Usually one person needs to handle multiple project in the same time.

theres no such things as working on 1 project. think about it. can a company survive just working on 1 client. obviously no right.

unless the question is you are being bullied then going elsewhere in the same line of work will be the same

Singaporean brainwashed by the government into thinking tech job means joining govtech...

I ask my US friend what are tech graduate aspiration.. Which company do they join etc.

He said Google, Facebook, Microsoft those kind.
But those really techie are those who create their own tech like Hotmail, Instagram, whatapps, now fitbit...
Build a market then get purchased by tech giant.

Our tech kids think so small.
Ywah I'm so smart I deserve high starting pay but I lack the entrepreneurs mind.

Take example from razer or secretlab.
Build your own tech. From small. Until it become big.

Not study hard to demand high starting pay to work for the government fix bug...
Such low dream.

Sad. This is what education does to people.
It kills their aspirations and dreams and transform them into working slaves...

Just like how the Singaporean government wanted... To be a world class education system to churn out workforce...

Tech job are not easy high turn over rate.
My cousin joined overtime almost every night.

My mother always compare me with him say he tech frsj grad 5k...
My cousin say his job only 3.8k. Where got 5k.

I'm 3.5k. Still he is 300 more than me.

Classic case of SME throwing money to attract talents they can't afford to maintain.

In SME you need many developers cause their scope is broad. Need to do requirement and liaise with clients, do development, maintenance, basically handle everything from start to end. Need many developers. If you hire 3 good ones (no matter how good), they sure burn out cause of lack of clarity and focus of scope.

In big tech companies, they can afford to pay high to attract developers because they have capital. They need to optimize every process. So hiring bar for developers is high also. Since scope is (often) well defined, every developer can be tuned to optimize output. This is how they ensure their investments pay them back.

In this thread we keep seeing people trying to compare SME who are only capable of paying 3k for their developers to big tech firms paying 6-7k. And worse, trying to justify that 6-7k is overpay for today's tech talents & resources...

Yes, 6-7k is overpay if your company is SME, but it is not for today's tech giants. It is like comparing rates from hotel 81 with st. regis...

The things is that, many graduates feel like it is their entitlement to receive high starting pay as there are people who receive such pay in their cohort. SME who need to have their own developers need to provide salary within that range in order to attract worker to join their firm.

This issue will eventually get resolve when the supply of worker is higher than the demand. Until then, graduates can demand high pay for their starting salary.

This justification is from my boss
1. We have a project Web based. Signed liao. Worth 120 for development.
2. We hire a fresh grad 5k. Can he developed it in 6 months or not... (cannot cause don't have the experience nce. Everything take too long. Login module already took 3 months to do. Can't reset password. No strong password check etc. Headache)
3. We hire an experienced developer 4.5k. Can he develop in 6 months? Oh yes. He have existing code he wrote before... So he can use his own code repository or refresh his memory....

That's why. We don't game on fresh grad.

Fresh grad big ****inf deal.
You don't see doctor immediately become surgeon upon graduation.
Why is software any different.
You don't become expert just because you graduated.

Sadly kids are stupid nowadays.