Then what is the increase?

Only lock-step for 3 years. And not 5.
Also, increase is not $1k. Old days yes.
Now no.

More likely $500-800

After 3 years, depend on performance. Merit based increment.

Yes. Scholar is top. Followed by Oxbridge. Followed by JLC.
Then NUS top 5%, then SMU (top 3%).
Then all other unis.

so what is the salary scale? and merit based increment is something im hearing for the first time. what source? which firms?

Not the OP but from one of the big 4 and it's merit based where I'm at. Annual performance review will determine your increment (or lack thereof). Apart from 1 pqe, which is lock-step, your salary may be frozen for the following year, bumped up by 3-500, bumped up by 1k, or bumped up by more than 1k. There's a 4th year on my floor earning more than 12k (not really sure of the exact figure but she joined at a good time and achieved consistently good results)

Maybe not the US firms because they generally tend to hire US JDs, but UK firms like Slaughters not out of reach. Just search Linkedin, theres already a handful of Singaporeans there. Even more at lesser paying (albeit still higher rates than SG) MC and SC firms.

Yeah and if I may add, frozen means it’s a sign for you to find another job.
Typically it’s 500 per year increase. And that’s for ppl who hit their targets.

That's quite interesting. I moved from one big 4 to another, and i saw the bulk of the NQ to 3 PQ associates getting average increments per 12 month period of about $650 (previous firm which used to give the lowest base pay in the big 4) or $1k increment (current firm) - averaged over the first 41 months (August call to the December 3 years later). There was, however, a more significant variance at my previous firm. The increments also tend to get larger around the 3-5 PQ period (but greater discretionary adjustment).

Also just heard that R&T improved the salary for 1 & 2 PQE to approximately match A&G and DN.

And I might add - white shoe firms are increasingly starting to take in Singaporeans lateraling in from the MCs.

To anyone who says 500k a year by early 30s is not possible in law, pls go take a look at the cravath scale with lockstep bonus. You CAN hit 500k by 35. I’m not gonna make it because I lateralled in late and I’m a guy, but the girl next door who lateralled in early is about to hit S$500k per annum, at 33.

Law pays well at the upper tiers of practice, and it’s not as unachievable as some make it out to be.

Exactly. To the poster who said it’s not possible for people to be GM of a business unit by 35, you’re terribly wrong. Top law grads are supremely brilliant.
Those who leave industry go on to be top investment bankers, top politicians, etc.
It’s the brain. Not the degree.

Disgusting. Working in big 4 is looking like a less and less attractive proposition every year.

In the past, the unspoken bargain was that you sold your soul away to the firm for the first few years in return for a steady $1k lockstep increase annually.

Hope the international firms squeeze the Big 4 out of business together with their greedy local partners. B*stards.

It's basically run like the partners' personal old boys club. Good luck if you're entering as a female trainee.

Well... you don’t always have to do legal practice. There are alternative routes. Like investment banking where you start on 9.5k-12k (depending on which banks you join), you can always go fintech/ico/bitcoin firms who are all super funded and can pay, you can choose management consulting. So many alternative careers. If you’re smart, nothing to fear

Haha. If any group can legitimately lay claim to being overpaid compared to their international compeers, its them.

Yup. It used to be a bad value proposition. Now it's just trash. With lockstep $1k/annum increase and lockstep salaried partnership out the window, there's really 0 value in staying in a local Big 4 firm for the long term.

Also, someone earlier posted that they give higher increments at the 3-5 PQE range. I can confirm this. It's just a trick to get you to stay even longer (because that's where the industry hollows out), don't fall for it. If you do, then you get trapped with almost no prospects of partnership AND your value to other firms will soon drop quickly, because they know you're moving out only because you can't make partner.

My advice? Get out at the 2-4 PQE range. If you're from a Big 4 law firm, you'll definitely have options (whether to in-house, a smaller law firm, or an int'l law firm is really about luck and timing and your own credentials)

Can lawyers seriously go into investment banking without any finance background? I think these "alternative careers" only work for those with finance backgrounds. Otherwise, just stick to being miserable in the law firms.

Who say cannot? It is incumbent on that individual to do a double degree for that matter

I think the prob is not so much whether u have a finance-related degree or not but u having to show a demonstrable interest in finance.

IB accepts candidates from all kinds of degrees, even arts or PPE. But the competition is very fierce. Just go look at the IB forums or countless the eFinancial Careers articles.

If you've been sucked into the whole law firm career trajectory and have been padding your CV towards law related stuff, as is natural for most law students, its very difficult to suddenly to a 360 deg switch to finance suddenly and justify to the hirers why u did so.

Goldman Sachs will simply take on another (of 5000) outstanding grads who have shown fanatical interest in finance since day 1 of their uni lives.

To a lesser extent the same applies with management consulting.

Exactly. So if making money is your priority, then this is the path you should take.
Granted you can do a law degree, that doesn’t mean you have to be a lawyer.
You can always angle your CV towards IB/MC.
What’s stopping a person from doing that? Nothing.

Exactly. Only those who are incapable of going into IB/MC will continue with law.

I wouldn't make such a blanket statement. In the US at least, Biglaw stands beside IB and MC in terms of prestige. Many IB analysts actually quit their jobs to go to law school before gunning for a spot in the big law firms.

Of course in Singapore it is vastly different because lawyer salaries (and legal fees in general) are so laughably depressed it is almost pathetic. Prestige is of course far lower. Case in point, the recent ill-fated attempt to impose scaled costs.

In fact, the word "lawyer" for most people here probably still conjures up images of the typical chinatown white-and-black court attired State Courts litigator, as opposed to the corporate lawyers in the major financial centres like NY and London.

This only applies to law students. How would you suggest a law graduate or someone who has been working in the legal sector to angle his CV towards IB or MC? Not practical advice.

No it isn't and no they don't.

ok boss whatever you say

u don't. only people who are prestige whores think finance is the be all and end all.

generally u choose a path and commit to it because u have some interest in the field and think its a worthwhile field to make a career out of

if you're in the legal industry, u can sit on the fence and hold out for the next better law firm that comes along. but u can't sit on the fence and choose between law or finance. because in the real world, companies want to see real results you can bring to the table not what you think is more prestigious for u.

its not all about u and changing sectors/industries is not like changing girlfriends.

What is the trainee salary
what is the new associate salary
for big four
and
for international firm

easy to move from big four trainee to international firm?

Agree wholeheartedly. The fact remains that our best legal minds go on to join non-legal fields such as IB/MC.

The cream of the crop with unblemished moral fortitude are further poached to serve the lay people by becoming politicians.

Yes. Just look at Hillary and Bill Clinton. Truly of unblemished moral fortitude.

Nobody cares about IB/MC when lawyer salaries simply blow those out of the water. See Clifford Chance starting salary of $12k.

Haha mate,do you happen to be called Patrick and have a sponge for a best friend?

Starting IB salaries in Singapore are around 10-12k base, with bonus this shoots to around 16k

Fact: IB is more lucrative and prestigious than big law at every compensation level

Its true. But IB is also a lot more competitive to get into than big law positions relative to the number of hopefuls.

You have a better shot, percentage wise, at getting into big law than in IB, where you are competing against thousands upon thousands of business/finance/econs/oxbridge/ivy league candidates. How many FO roles do the bulge brackets hire here per year? 3 to 5 per bank maybe?

Even if you dont make the first cut into MC/international firms as a fresh law grad, there are numerous opportunities at different career points to lateral in. For IB, the overwhelming number of hires are made at the graduate stage with very few opportunities to lateral in.

Can’t help but wonder how many of you moaning about degree mill unis are buttburt because you wish you’d studied in one?

I graduated from one. Current trainee in a City firm. Life is good here in the UK. But please, keep talking about how rigorous local degrees are while slaving away in a Big 4 (if even that) hoping for your chance to lateral into an intl firm.

Do only corporate lawyers have the opportunity to lateral into big law?

your degree mill uni is why you're not in a white shoe/MC, paying UK taxes and making less in terms of PPP compared to an SG Big 4 lawyer lmao

ive been in practice for couple of years now and have never actually come across an NUS or SMU-grad lawyer whom I would consider "lousy". granted im sure every school has its share of idiots but i cant think of any.

on the other hand ive come across more than a handful of doofuses from overseas unis. of course im pretty sure there are brilliant ones too.

btw i practice in litigation which is an area where the quality of opposing counsel and their performance in court is very readily apparent, far more so than in transactional work where you seldom if ever get to assess the quality of other lawyers face-to-face as opposed to behind emails.

i just think the variance in terms of quality is far wider for overseas grads. many of them are the equivalent calibre of lets say, an FASS grad. which is probably the course they would've gotten offered if they stayed in Singapore for their uni education.

the main problem with many overseas grads is that they aren't used to working hard. at least not at the level of the hothouse pressure cooker environment that is NUS or SMU law.

my observation is that a lot of them like to blow hot air or waste time complaining about how much work they have to do, and not spend time actually doing the work and being efficient about it.

Aww, keep telling yourself that. I won’t specify my firm for obvious reasons, so please, keep comparing all you want. :)

Count yourself lucky then. For every overseas grad who finds a TC in London, there are countless others who only manage to secure interviews with small firms or sole proprietorships in Singapore, and a sizeable number can’t even find a TC anywhere. Unless you are fairly confident in your own ‘brilliance’, studying in a local uni is the far more pragmatic option.

Be thankful, not arrogant.

Anyone know anything about Baker's retention rates + NQ salary?

100% + 10k I think

What is retention rate for big 4
and starting salary ?