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Unregistered 06-12-2018 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112187)
Hi seniors, does any one have any insights on where people who fail part b (ie fail more than 2 papers) usually end up? Is it worth waiting another 6 months to take the re-examination, or, is it preferable to consider doing something else after one finishes one’s TC?

For the former, securing employment at a decent mid size firm post-re-examination seems difficult, and even if possible, the current outlook in the legal industry isn’t very bright - dismal salary generally if not in a decent firm.

For the latter, how common is this? How receptive are employers generally to law grads with zero internship experience outside the legal industry? What paths are available? MA programmes or consulting?

For context, I’m not from a degree mill and did decently well in law school. Also, even if I were to pass part b, I’m very inclined to consider alternative routes, not least because I’m not sure if I can see myself doing legal work for the next 30-40 years.
You're on the right track my friend. Law is for losers who think it's a good trade to sacrifice their youth, time, happiness and health in return for a higher than average slave wage. Most of what they earn is paid back anyway in the future in the form of increased healthcare costs, shortened lifespans and alimonies (if they're male). Just see for yourself how toxic this thread is and you can guess what your future will be like in the legal industry.

Gun for those bank or MNC MA programmes and consultancy (you better start prepping for case interviews) if you wish. The world's your oyster.

Unregistered 06-12-2018 07:48 AM
Any insights into the NUS GLB program?
How does it compare with JD Smu and Suss in terms of reputation and where do NUS gLb graduates go after law school?

Any age discrimination by employers?

Unregistered 06-12-2018 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112204)
You’re incorrect. It is true part b is impossible to fail taking into account resits.
On first attempt, there are many who fail one subject.
the bar (pun intended) has been lowered so much nowadays?? In my time fail means fail on first attempt. If u had to retake any papers, u obviously havent been paying the slightest attention. We even had time to go overseas on short holiday trips 2 or 3 times during part b and no one I know failed.

Unregistered 06-12-2018 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112216)
the bar (pun intended) has been lowered so much nowadays?? In my time fail means fail on first attempt. If u had to retake any papers, u obviously havent been paying the slightest attention. We even had time to go overseas on short holiday trips 2 or 3 times during part b and no one I know failed.
It's the opposite actually; they have made both part a and b more difficult to pass for the past 2 or 3 cohorts, all in the name of raising the bar (pun unintended for me). It's no longer a walk in the park like the good old times. If I recall correctly, it was in the papers recently that they intend to make it even more difficult for future cohorts.

Unregistered 06-12-2018 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112216)
the bar (pun intended) has been lowered so much nowadays?? In my time fail means fail on first attempt. If u had to retake any papers, u obviously havent been paying the slightest attention. We even had time to go overseas on short holiday trips 2 or 3 times during part b and no one I know failed.
Lmao. Some might say, upon reviewing past year part b papers, that when the bar is low it doesn’t take much to cross it. Probably not the same in recent times; I hear that some papers now require candidates to pass every question?

Unregistered 06-12-2018 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112209)
I recommend the reverse, if you can afford it. Go Oxbridge for undergrad and shoot for a FCH (it's easier than at NUS, plus it's actually possible to get good grades while having a good social life in the uk). If you really want, do an LLM at NUS (though i dont think it's worth it unless you want to practise a very technical area of law like shipping). Oxbridge grads most definitely would not lose out to NUS grads, here or anywhere else in the world. Oh, and I think most BCL/LLM(Cantab) would not refer to themselves as 'oxbridge grads', a term understood by most to be referring to someone who did undergrad at oxbridge.
Oh then how come some lawyers in practice after getting Harvard LLM label themselves as Harvard educated? I think once you complete a proper degree there (at both undergrad or postgrad level) and not some certificate programs, you’re entitled to say you’re a Cambridge / Oxford graduate.

Unregistered 06-12-2018 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112228)
Lmao. Some might say, upon reviewing past year part b papers, that when the bar is low it doesn’t take much to cross it. Probably not the same in recent times; I hear that some papers now require candidates to pass every question?
As one who took part A and B in the past 2 years, I can confirm that part A has gotten more difficult (compared to my seniors' accounts) but part B is still easy. It's hard to fail. The only way to fail is if you don't give a hoot and can't even get the basics right. You do have to pass every question for mods like ACP, but frankly it's doable. You just have to be militant with your time. Curiously, I heard that 2 of A&G's trainees failed ACP in 2017.

Unregistered 07-12-2018 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112234)
Oh then how come some lawyers in practice after getting Harvard LLM label themselves as Harvard educated? I think once you complete a proper degree there (at both undergrad or postgrad level) and not some certificate programs, you’re entitled to say you’re a Cambridge / Oxford graduate.
that idiot trolling lah. NUS fch hard to get? NUS doubled the FCH liao, now machiam not worth anything.

Unregistered 07-12-2018 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112234)
Oh then how come some lawyers in practice after getting Harvard LLM label themselves as Harvard educated? I think once you complete a proper degree there (at both undergrad or postgrad level) and not some certificate programs, you’re entitled to say you’re a Cambridge / Oxford graduate.
Not sure about Harvard llm but from what I hear the Oxford bcl is genuinely hard to get into. It's not one of those pay money and get kind of llm. Nus llm on the other hand... Is just an extra year of the same courses offered to the undergrads. Popular with law grads from our poorer southeast Asian neighbours or india. That being said the quality of the subjects taught at Nus even at undergrad level is very good.

Unregistered 07-12-2018 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112246)
Not sure about Harvard llm but from what I hear the Oxford bcl is genuinely hard to get into. It's not one of those pay money and get kind of llm. Nus llm on the other hand... Is just an extra year of the same courses offered to the undergrads. Popular with law grads from our poorer southeast Asian neighbours or india. That being said the quality of the subjects taught at Nus even at undergrad level is very good.
I agree. BCL worth must more

Unregistered 07-12-2018 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112242)
As one who took part A and B in the past 2 years, I can confirm that part A has gotten more difficult (compared to my seniors' accounts) but part B is still easy. It's hard to fail. The only way to fail is if you don't give a hoot and can't even get the basics right. You do have to pass every question for mods like ACP, but frankly it's doable. You just have to be militant with your time. Curiously, I heard that 2 of A&G's trainees failed ACP in 2017.
What do those who’ve failed part A usually do during after?

Unregistered 07-12-2018 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112250)
What do those who’ve failed part A usually do during after?
Usually they are appointed directors in their family business.

Unregistered 07-12-2018 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112266)
Usually they are appointed directors in their family business.
Nice one lol. Some even drive BMW Cabriolet

Unregistered 09-12-2018 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112242)
As one who took part A and B in the past 2 years, I can confirm that part A has gotten more difficult (compared to my seniors' accounts) but part B is still easy. It's hard to fail. The only way to fail is if you don't give a hoot and can't even get the basics right. You do have to pass every question for mods like ACP, but frankly it's doable. You just have to be militant with your time. Curiously, I heard that 2 of A&G's trainees failed ACP in 2017.
Do you think it is necessary to take the Part A bar course? Future Part A student here, contemplating whether to take the optional course or not.

Unregistered 09-12-2018 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112294)
Do you think it is necessary to take the Part A bar course? Future Part A student here, contemplating whether to take the optional course or not.
Depends on uni u come from.
Generally if you’re from Oxbridge, no need to do the course
If you’re from LSE, UCL, and below best to do the course
Singapore legal education standard is a lot higher than overseas.
A first from LSE, UCL is at most a high 2:1 in NUS.

Unregistered 09-12-2018 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112294)
Do you think it is necessary to take the Part A bar course? Future Part A student here, contemplating whether to take the optional course or not.
Take the course. Apparently Walter Woon drops a lot of exam essentials in his lessons. I didn't take the course and if not for my friend who gave me the recordings, would've failed I think. WW is fond of insta-failing people once they fail to hit a crucial point.

Do not make the mistake of assuming part A is an academic course, especially for company law. He prefers practical answers and pre-mugged essays will not work. Neither will copying and pasting.

Unregistered 10-12-2018 01:35 AM
Anyone here feel sad the day they cancel their PC to go in house or leave the industry?

Unregistered 11-12-2018 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112302)
Anyone here feel sad the day they cancel their PC to go in house or leave the industry?
siao. has anyone ever felt sad for leaving an abusive husband?

Unregistered 12-12-2018 04:41 PM
Does anyone know anything about Quahe Woo & Palmer? Culture, salary, prospects...

Unregistered 12-12-2018 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112366)
Does anyone know anything about Quahe Woo & Palmer? Culture, salary, prospects...
Heard you may be paid in mangoes. Prospects are good if you're named Laura.

Joking.

Unregistered 15-12-2018 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112366)
Does anyone know anything about Quahe Woo & Palmer? Culture, salary, prospects...
Horrible, disappointing, and average, in that order.

Unregistered 16-12-2018 12:25 PM
Seriously if you’re a FCH and money is your priority, just go in house and work towards general management.

If you’re smart, you can make managing director of a business unit before 32 and earn $500k a year with stock options.

Best part you skip the crazy hours that a law firm partner has to do before trial.

Unregistered 16-12-2018 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112440)
Seriously if you’re a FCH and money is your priority, just go in house and work towards general management.

If you’re smart, you can make managing director of a business unit before 32 and earn $500k a year with stock options.

Best part you skip the crazy hours that a law firm partner has to do before trial.
Bro what are you smoking, $500k at 32 in management? Only law partners, i-bankers, and civil servants on superscale can conceivably make that in their early 30s.

Sure life in Singapore as a millennial is tougher than a decade ago due to imprudent government policies, but law remains a very lucrative career for the academically inclined.

Unregistered 16-12-2018 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112447)
Bro what are you smoking, $500k at 32 in management? Only law partners, i-bankers, and civil servants on superscale can conceivably make that in their early 30s.

Sure life in Singapore as a millennial is tougher than a decade ago due to imprudent government policies, but law remains a very lucrative career for the academically inclined.
Dude. $500k at early 30s is not achievable even for a Harvard Law grad who clerked for the US Supreme Court and became a partner in the whitest of the white shoe law firms in New York. Talk c ock.

Law is not a "very" lucrative career. It is a stable, upper middle class career for the above-average in studies. You will get to drive a BMW and maybe eventually upgrade to a Jaguar. If you're a good rainmaker, maybe you will swap cars every 3 - 4 years and get that Maserati when you're in your mid 40s (if you really want it, however impractical it is).

You will be comfortable, but you will not be Steve Cohen rich.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112449)
Dude. $500k at early 30s is not achievable even for a Harvard Law grad who clerked for the US Supreme Court and became a partner in the whitest of the white shoe law firms in New York. Talk c ock.
Wachtell (the whitest of the white shoe law firms) has a PEP of >USD5 million with lockstep compensation. They literally make you an overnight millionaire the moment you make partner.

Same with Cravath, Slaughter and May and pretty much any top firm that pays lockstep.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112456)
Wachtell (the whitest of the white shoe law firms) has a PEP of >USD5 million with lockstep compensation. They literally make you an overnight millionaire the moment you make partner.

Same with Cravath, Slaughter and May and pretty much any top firm that pays lockstep.
Wachtell is like literally the no.1 firm though... and no other firm besides them pays the kinds of salaries they do.

Think about it, every year Harvard alone takes in 600+ law students, and there are so many other competitive schools... of which only 28 of them or so will get a summer associate position in Wachtell. You might have a better chance hoping to strike it rich opening a siam diu hoping to make bank, than hoping to beat out the competition at elite US law schools for a place in Wachtell. After which you'd still have to beat your classmates in Wachtell to get that coveted partnership.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112457)
Wachtell is like literally the no.1 firm though... and no other firm besides them pays the kinds of salaries they do.
OP's specific scenario was of making partner at the top firm i.e. Wachtell.

In any case, the other firms I mentioned have similarly sky-high starting partner pay. Cravath's is USD2 million (PEP of USD4 million with a spread between highest-paid and lowest-paid partners of 3-to-1). Slaughter's is GBP1.8 million (PEP of GBP2.7 million with a spread of 2-to-1).

Also, you'd be surprised at the number of people in each cohort not looking to make partner at the firm. Once you get your foot in the door, competition is actually not as high as you'd think. The main challenge is whether you can last long enough to reach 7-10PQE.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112458)
OP's specific scenario was of making partner at the top firm i.e. Wachtell.

In any case, the other firms I mentioned have similarly sky-high starting partner pay. Cravath's is USD2 million (PEP of USD4 million with a spread between highest-paid and lowest-paid partners of 3-to-1). Slaughter's is GBP1.8 million (PEP of GBP2.7 million with a spread of 2-to-1).

Also, you'd be surprised at the number of people in each cohort not looking to make partner at the firm. Once you get your foot in the door, competition is actually not as high as you'd think. The main challenge is whether you can last long enough to reach 7-10PQE.
Hmm lets be realistic. How much does a junior equity partner at Lee & Lee or HEP earn?

Unregistered 17-12-2018 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112469)
Hmm lets be realistic. How much does a junior equity partner at Lee & Lee or HEP earn?
Same as what a first yearer earns in CC.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112478)
Same as what a first yearer earns in CC.
Sounds ridiculous right, but it’s true.

Unregistered 17-12-2018 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112478)
Same as what a first yearer earns in CC.
What to do leh? When your clients are mom and pop run companies who haggle over every bill, you are never gonna be able to win the foreign firms. Singapore’s corporate landscape is simply not robust enough for local firms to earn the kind of top dollar that CC earns. Just look at our exchange - most of them are family run towkay shops.

Unregistered 18-12-2018 07:00 AM
This is pretty obvious.
That’s why top law grads go to magic circle or the white shoes coz they know the very concept that you earn more and save, you essentially cut short the no of years you need to work. Possible to retire at 40. As compared to 65 if you’re in a small firm.

Unregistered 18-12-2018 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112483)
This is pretty obvious.
That’s why top law grads go to magic circle or the white shoes coz they know the very concept that you earn more and save, you essentially cut short the no of years you need to work. Possible to retire at 40. As compared to 65 if you’re in a small firm.
Its possible to retire at 25 if you join the Legal Service.

Unregistered 18-12-2018 11:58 AM
hi all,

any reviews on the corporate dept in Eversheds Harry Elias?

read some on glassdoor but I thought I could get more opinions here

what are some of the pros and cons working there?

salary? worklife balance (if any of course), career progression?

thanks!

Unregistered 18-12-2018 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112489)
hi all,

any reviews on the corporate dept in Eversheds Harry Elias?

read some on glassdoor but I thought I could get more opinions here

what are some of the pros and cons working there?

salary? worklife balance (if any of course), career progression?

thanks!
All the reviews can be summed up as "go to an international firm instead"

Unregistered 19-12-2018 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112499)
All the reviews can be summed up as "go to an international firm instead"
Yeah but if you start out in a small firm due to 2:1 and lower, it’s difficult to scale up.

You can scale up to big four (by exp), but always a long shot from the magic circle or white shoes.

Increasingly white shoes want pedigree. And pedigree can only be sought from Oxbridge or the top 5% from NUS.

Unregistered 19-12-2018 09:23 AM
Stay on topic pls

Bunch of Singaporean Asians with no connection whatsoever to US talking about partnership in wachtell cravath etc is frankly preposterous. Might as well say u wanna be US president

What's the NQ to 5pqe scale for big 4?

Unregistered 19-12-2018 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112504)
Stay on topic pls

Bunch of Singaporean Asians with no connection whatsoever to US talking about partnership in wachtell cravath etc is frankly preposterous. Might as well say u wanna be US president

What's the NQ to 5pqe scale for big 4?
From what I've heard:

NQ: 5.8k
1 PQE: 6.8k
2 PQE: 7.8k
3 PQE: 8.8k
4 PQE: 9.8k
5 PQE: 10.8k

Unregistered 19-12-2018 03:17 PM
Does anyone know what the salary and progression is like in the legal service? As a scholar vs non-scholar?

Unregistered 19-12-2018 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 112505)
From what I've heard:

NQ: 5.8k
1 PQE: 6.8k
2 PQE: 7.8k
3 PQE: 8.8k
4 PQE: 9.8k
5 PQE: 10.8k
Please don’t spread fake news.
The increase is not $1k


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