tbh is there a similar tension in big4 private practice?

you have the divide between the white horses associates (i.e. son/daughter of a rich man conglomerate, who can potentially bring business in for the firm) vs the grinder nobody who does the midnight shift/saikang

The managing partner looks like a Chinese Santa Klaus.

You forgot to add that many of these sons/daughters of rich conglomerates tend to be from UK universities where they can afford to party like no tomorrow everyday and achieve a 2:2, yet they are guaranteed employment in the Big 4, boss the partners around and end work at 5pm.

While other assocs who achieve much stellar grades in local universities end up grinding behind the scenes till dawn while getting zero recognition and always at the receiving end of verbal abuse.

Life can be cruel, especially to those who didn't strike the financial lottery when they are born. That's why I never understood why local grads care so much about grades and flex on UK grads, when all that matters is your family status.

bruh this is maybe like one in 10000 law students lmao suck up your bitterness and stop trying to blame your lack of achievement on the fact that werent born with a silver spoon in your mouth

That is very true, but for those of us born without family background, we can only try to enter the bigger firms the hard way ma. Like if you don't have express ticket at USS, you still want to be ahead in the normal queue ma.

Not the person you quoted, but there will be a time when you will ask yourself, is the grind worth it? The pitfall of being a LA in B4 is that you will never have the time to build your own book. Even if you move to another firm, you will still be subordinate to someone because you don't even have billables to begin with. Not many firms are willing to employ salaried partners, naturally they will prefer partners who can bring in businesses.

This is some horseshit lmao. I’ve done my time in a big4 m&a practice and I have seen white horses get fired and asked to leave because they’re absolutely shite at their work. Ultimately law is a business - if the associate cannot pull his / her weight, it’s only a matter of time before it stops making business sense to keep someone like that around the office. Practice is the great equaliser because an SPA / SHA doesn’t give two ****s about family background.

I honestly don’t get the debate about local v overseas grads. No one cares after a few years in practice. The fact that people here talk so much about this just shows the demographic and insecurity of the commenters here. Probably largely comprising undergrads, trainees or NQs.

What about AGC? What is the equalizer? Are non elites forever disadvantaged?

Is called CEP lor. Low CEP = gg

I second this. Likewise did my time in B4 M&A and, while white horses were not uncommon, I too have witnessed them being 'asked to leave' for performance / attitude reasons. At least one of the B4 has a policy whereby if you get a TC through connections, you cannot be retained upon qualification. Nepotism is becoming quite rare.

I have respect for ppl who make it to (equity) partner at B4; I really believe it's down to merit / your actual capabilities.

Any recent revisions to the Big 4 salary scale? Is the bunching up of salaries at the senior associate level a problem now that they've bumped up the junior assoc salaries

Career switch
 

I'm currently a student sitting for the part B, I was wondering how I could switch to a different career such as the MFA

Join us at Fervent Chambers. We do law differently, and handle all of the main defamation cases in Singapore. We also offer 7.5k for starting salaries. You can definitely have MFA - More Fervent Action with us.

Love this plug

Why are lawyers paid so much?

$7.5K is low bro. In this day and age, if you don't start with at least $10K salary for a so-called elite course, you're considered mediocre. Except for medicine tho - suck it up too bad because public healthcare and all that. But doctors have very long runway to earn money.

I would say that lawyers are grossly underpaid in Singapore, even at the top/big local firms (which is around $7K to $7.5K also for newly qualifieds). Most of the revenue goes to partner profits. I think it can be distributed more equitably.

To answer your question - the market pays what it wants to. I'm referring to both salaries, and client fees.

How can associates convince partners to share more of the profits?

This is correct. Just looking at international firms in SG, the magic circles starting pay is 15k, while US firm is above that and maybe even 23k

What’s up with the latest saga between Iris Koh and Clarence Lun? Heard he sued her for bankruptcy after she refused to pay his interns $500/hr?

How do I make the move from B4 to international firm?

I am 5pqe in litigation. I want to go corp, possible?

Yes possible. Have to take a pqe cut

what is pqe cut?

what salary monthly should a 5 pqe litigation exp get for move to inhouse

pqe cut is when they cut your pqe, which is linked to your pay.

5pqe become 3 or 2 (or 1?). Senior assoc become junior assoc.

I'm not the OP, but I think it is very difficult for a 5pqe B4 liti to move to an international firm corp department. International firms don't like having to spend time and resources to (re)train you.

I think it is very possible to seek an internal transfer within your B4 to a corp dept or move to another B4's corp dept, but same caveat - pqe cut... Also, not sure if you have the energy after 5+ years in liti to retrain as a junior corp assoc - good to see you are considering the in-house option as well.

Any chance for DPP to go Corp dept of International firm?

Yes. Many are hired for their prosecuting skills required to close deals.

Yes, if you are either (1) very junior (~ 2 years in or less) or (2) <4 years with very good credentials. If not, very low chance.

Any examples? I dont see any on linkedin

Have not heard of any DPP successful jump to corp dept of international firm.

What is “very good credentials”? FCH Nus enough?

Hearsay must FCH Oxbridge JLC. Super saiyan

Heard from a recruiter that alot of ddps are applying for inhouse corp roles but are always rejected due to lack of experience.

Might as well go inhouse regulatory. Google always hiring for regulatory or investigations counsel.

Same considerations and hurdles - international firms are not going to want to re-train you, so will take you at a PQE cut (or not take you on at all). Unfortunately, DPP experience simply doesn't transfer across to corporate law.

You could try for liti roles (arbitration or white collar / investigations) with international firms, but there are often many suitable applicants for a very small number of roles. And you'd be up against liti ppl from B4 firms who probably have more directly relevant experience.

B4 will consider you for liti roles, and MAY consider you for corp roles (possibly with PQE cut), so this is definitely one way to get your foot in the door. But you'd also have to consider how much energy you have to re-train as a junior corp lawyer.

does the concept of the "iron rice bowl" exist in the legal profession? what if i wanna lepak4lyfe

Be a dpp lor, iron ricebowl and go home at 6

Civil service or public sector. Lower tier ministries or govt linked entities or stat board type of entities. Seriously.

Of course don't expect good pay. But the work you do is really a fraction of private sector roles. People go there to retire or stay for > 5 years, which is a rarity in most legal jobs

So DPP$ are those airheads who went above and beyond unnecessarily to “prosecute” drug offenders from less privileged families? I have personally dealt with them before and could say their arguments were not the most succinct/sharp but they were definitely the group who might bite on anyone’s a$$ whenever there’s an opportunity.

I’m not confident to categorise them even with big 4/int firms lawyers. The best label I can credit them for is being bureaucratical, but terms such as “commercial savviness” or even “savviness”, I would think twice.

How hard can criminal law be? It is a year 1 law module. The easiest subject in law school. Private practice lawyers deal with much more complex and specialist areas of law, much more demanding clients and pressures that a dpp will never experience.

Lol bruv you don’t ****ing know ****.

A&G salary
 

Any idea what the latest rounds of salaries for A&G are?

Yes best route for DPP is to go big4 first