There is no such thing as ops specialist, ops HR by definition is a generalist position. Pay will be similar to admin support, maybe slightly higher thats all.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, i do quite agree. The co asked me for my expected and i quoted 4k from my current 4.9k. Could you advise me what is the more comfortable figure as the co already said 4.9k is out for this position?

QUOTE=Unregistered;25420]There is no such thing as ops specialist, ops HR by definition is a generalist position. Pay will be similar to admin support, maybe slightly higher thats all.[/QUOTE]

Most likely can go for 4.5k, i.e. around AM level.

But I be frank with you, I wouldn't take up the offer if it means a pay cut. One should only take pay cut if it is a job that allows you to build up your marketability or acquire skillsets that will lead to better prospects in the future.

A ops HR position is not different from admin in terms of scope, career & pay prospect. What's the point?

Thanks for your advice. It is a good one and yes, I shall consider carefully and neg if there is an offer. :))

I keep hearing everybody say hr must specialize like biz partner, OD, c&b, talent etc then can make much more compared to ops generalist admin hr.

So how much more is it actually? For eg. let's say a mid career with 10 yr exp as a ops hr compared to one of the specialist hr job what is the average salary difference between them?

HR Salaries
 

90% of people in here are just too free and throwing their frustrations; probably at their income. I have been a HR recruiter for 11 yrs.

The salaries indicated in here are way above the market rate for their no. of years experience. Seems like the top 10% HR earners are in this forum, hahahaa....

You're the bottom 10 bah.

Guys, I have read the whole series of thread but still cant come to a conclusion how to change my career to HR
I have Bachelor Degree Engineering from NTU and wanna do a career switch to HR.

2 years of experience in project mgt and engineering sales.. I have also chanced upon MDIS Graduate Diploma and struggled between all the links that was provided by other bros...I also struggled in taking up Master degree in Human Resource in NUS. or Professional Diploma from NUS extension.

I also saw SHRI giving the course Post Graduate Diploma in Human Capital Management...so many...but which one or izit needed?

I mean what exactly is the differnce between Graduate Diploma by pte uni and compared to taking up Professional diploma or Master (which is much more expensive!)?

I am thinking of taking up Graduate Diploma with MDIS or Kaplan which is much affordable and faster and taking up an inspector role dealing with manpower resourcing and ground operational performance appraisal (not Corporate HR dealings). This is because in this way I wont get pay cut, try to get a G.Dip for HRM and jump ship in future? but dealing with uniform ppl. i noe its dumb to do operations and not corporate HR....

Or should I forget about takin up the inspector job? and enter a HR scope after getting G.Diploma. or just find a HR job with degree in any discipline...

Ultimate question: Which is the best certificate to take if I do not want to get a pay cut to enter HR ?

The reason why you are getting no answers is because you are a very confused person who cannot phrase your question properly, how you expect people to answer?

When I ask u earlier whether u are going for ops generalist HR, u say dun want because u want big money great prospect for taking risk etc. But u are not able to say what u want except for “corporate HR” and proceed to list a whole bunch of specialist functions that u want. Excuse me, specialist as oppose to generalist means u specialize in 1 field, nobody can realistically expect to find a job that specialize in everything.

Business Partnering – Masters appreciated, but only valuable if you have prior relevant working experience before taking, it has little value for someone who just study for exam get cert & no experience at all

C&B – HR cert useless, what you need is a CFA, CIPM or Actuary

Recruitment - HR cert useless, you need to build up a good network first, nobody will hire a recruitment specialist straight when u bring nothing to the table

Talent / OD – Masters appreciated, but only valuable if you have prior relevant working experience before taking, it has little value for someone who just study for exam get cert & no experience at all

HRIS - HR cert useless, must have extensive SAP or PS experience and has certifications along those lines

Training - HR cert useless, must have specific professional qualifications from key programs

So you will ask then what kind of ppl will take up HR diplomas/degree/masters? Sadly mostly is the generalist ops admin people whose job u dun want to take up.

Each specialization has different strategies to break into, but getting general HR certs is largely irrelevant for specialist role.

The prob is like all high paying jobs, there's to few to go around.

in my co. the ratio is like 1 spec to 10 generalist. Very limited spaces and need to compete with people from consultancy, management program etc,

A normal graduate who join as generalist hr exec has almost no chance of moving to spec unless she is consistent high perfomer and classify as high potential.

errr
 

Mine is a new post...you are replying to my new post...but directed at the wrong person ...thansk for the info anyway...

So having 2 years of engineering experience..whats the only chance to get into HR jobs? no need exp to enter? aready used up 2 years and non HR related....

Which area of HR are u interested in? Specialist or admin generalist?

If its admin then I think u can take the faster route to get a graduate diploma, no value in buying a costly and time consuming masters from nus.

I suggest u try applying for admin roles first, I know some company dun reall care if u study hr as generalist work is mostly follow procedure n is learn on the job anyway.

okay thx
 

Thanks for your sincere information...
I think for me I wan a generalist role which I can know the basic singapore employment law, employee relations, manpower, payroll, compensation and benefits, performance appraisal. I feel all these are the basics for a Generalist should know before venturing into business partnering...

But with a degree in eng..its hard to draw more than 3k as human resource executive.. unless i find myself in shipyard or oil firm which can pay a bonus high enuff to cover my low basic pay cut pay...

matter most is...exp is more valuable than paper...unless I got a chance to enter a generalist role..employer will tink i m too expensive to hire a deg holder with no HR exp and HR cert

Just want to point out it is rare for ops to transit to business partner later. Although BP deals with same things like C&B, manpower, performance etc, the angle they come from is totally different.

You are right in that most co. do not pay 3k for entry level generalist ops. You will need to quote ~2.4k to be competitive, I know a lot of young grad girls go in at 2-2.2k, but since you have work 2 yrs before, can ask a little higher.

Alternative is to go public sector with NS, honors etc should reach 3.1k, but then there will totally no hope of moving to BP.

Hi all,

I am a fresh graduate from NTU with an honors degree in Business and am being offered a position in a HR C&B Consulting company as an entry-level analyst. It's quite a niche field so it's kinda hard to get salary information about it but is $3k a reasonable starting salary? It won't exactly be a bed of roses kind of job and definitely not 9-6. Entry-level positions in HR consulting is quite difficult to come by and it is something that I wish to do and hopefully branch into in-house C&B in the future.

If you managed to get into HR C&B should be good.
I think 3K to 4K is the market rate.

Anyway I am a fresh graduate in UNiSIM. I am looking to go into recruitment consulting. anyone who is working in reputable Recruiment agency that could reccommend me. 4 years working experience as a quality control technician in food manufacturing while studying HR management part time.

Thanks.

John

3k is the norm for data side but low for the management consultancy side, so it depends which business line you are joining.

But be careful on the firm you join as not all C&B consulting companies have the same CV value. In general for career building purposes Tier 1 firms are good & I would recommend accepting the low pay & long hours just to build up your CV.

Tier 1:
Mercer
TW
Aon

Tier 2:
Hay
HRBS

Tier 3:
Various local boutique firms

I'm an engineering grad, who has ventured into training & development field, and also play the role of change agent like uplifting customer service. Kindly advise if possible to venture into these consultancy firms?

These firms generally prefer people with strong numeracy skills and/or Finance background.

As for your experience in things like training / development, projects that improve customer service etc. you would be better off joining a coaching firm or niche boutiques specializing in certain industries or functions.

I do not think the Tier 1 / 2 firms will be interested in these areas as these sectors are pretty low margin competing with hundreds of one-man show consulting companies.

By data side do you mean the number crunching, data grabbing, modelling, preparation of excel spreadsheets, etc? I kinda fall under tier 3 unfortunately :(

Both data services & consulting side will deal with data. It's more about your product - Is it consulting for companies or selling survey data to companies?

Oh then you had better try to move up the tiers. Most of these boutique firms have pretty niche areas and my understanding is their methodology & data access tends to be not on par with best practices, so might be difficult to move up the value chain once you stay too long.

If it's convenient may I ask which firm is that?

It's a firm which partners companies to design and implement compensation strategies. Of course it also offers the typical performance/talent management bits but I believe compensation is the core offering. This emphasis on compensation strategy is what I'm leveraging on hopefully to further my career in the area of C&B in the future. I'm afraid it's not too convenient to reveal at this point of time hope you'll understand.

There is a significant amount of people previously from Hay/Mercer and other higher tier consulting firms in my firm though so what might be some possible reasons for their shift? Especially since they are also pretty fresh with less than 5 years consulting experience.

Sure, no probs it ur not comfortable revealing your current company.

I do not know your colleagues personally, so I can't really say why they would want to "downgrade". My experience so far is that some of these people join a big firm and after a few years realise they are not going to be made lead & choose to seek other openings in other consulting firms or try their luck in corporate.

It's hard to say how useful the experience you have is w/o knowing what you are actually doing now, so I will just talk generally. You try & fit it into your context and conclude accordingly.

I know of 3 local small C&B firms in Singapore (I'm sure there are more). One specializes in sales incentives, the other does GLC work and the last one does high tech R&D. Each of these firms have the same problem for someone junior who is hoping to further his career in other consultancies or move in-house.

Their scope is too narrow to properly leverage into a bigger sized C&B role. If you stay there 1 or 2 years to learn something is OK, but once you hang around too long or have ambitions to expand your role the problem happens.

Be it consultancy or in-house most companies will prefer someone who has a wider experience in terms of exposure to different projects, industries and geography. Competition is stiff and it will be a hard sell to future employers if your experience is not well-rounded enough. This is especially important if you intend to move into a corporate role in a MNC.

I see where you're coming from and thanks for sharing.

I'm not too sure what I will actually be doing either because I haven't even started work. Just accepted the offer and will be commencing in 2 weeks time. I guess I will hang around for a year or two and try to learn as much as I can and expose myself to whatever C&B projects that I can get myself into. It's a consulting company at the end of the day, so no matter how small, I'm sure I will still get to work on different projects during my stint. I heard entry-level analysts get pushed hard though and hopefully my interest in C&B will be strong enough to sustain myself in this run.

Hi, just wondering if consultancy firms can be volatile and hit hard during economic downturn, resulting in downsizing. Companies usually tighten their belts and less likely to engage consultancy services?

Hi. I guess that is a logical concern but in a way if you see it, companies who are hit by economic downturn more often than not require expertise in terms of restructuring whether it be externally (changing the way they bring in revenue) and internally (organizational restructuring). Of course one way to cut cost would be not to outsource these processes but if times are really bad and if companies really need that additional help, consultancy firms could be one way to bring in quick expertise. I guess it's arguable in both ways honestly and really depends on the financial health and positioning of the company in the first place but I wouldn't be surprised if business were to drop in consultancy firms since it is an economic downturn anyway.

Anybody in HR can lend a helping hand?
 

2 year engineer here want to join HR in relations to C&B or recruitment...
Willing to start as fresh..
Any senior management or HR manager here or senior willing to groom me? Prepared resume for discussion..
Preferably engineering or MnC platform

hi i am a student currently in sim - rmit( management, major in hr )

may i know what is a good job to start from, am aiming at earning 5k by 5th year.

0 experience.

If your goal is 5k on 5th year then better join a mgt consultancy, headhunting or business partner job.

The normal ops generalist hr jobs you will be snr exec level ~3.5kin 5th year. My gf is 3rd year as hr generalist in Unilever just hit 3k this year.

HR consultancy? dont really know what is it. those job street , recruit express jobs?

I think he means management consultancies, not recruit agents...

Hi all, I am currently an undergraduate who is working through my BBA, majoring in HR and Management. I will want to move into the HR field, but right now i wish to extend my networks, and get to learn more about the different functions e.g. C&B, T&D etc.

As i was reading through the responses, I find that the HRBP route is more suitable for me, as I understand the move into C&B will require a strong finance background (which I do not have and not very good in). It does appear to me that moving into HR, it will definitely be better off if you are able to be referred into the company, rather than starting at an executive/associate position.

With the other option of T&D, what will be the specific skill-set and/or competencies that one should have to do well in it? May it be soft skills or academic qualifications?

What are some of the other moves aside from the usual talk of having good grades, doing internships, be confident and prepared during interviews, and having networks to be able to do decently well (I'm hoping to look at at least $3000 as starting pay, and be able to move towards a strategic role in 10 - 15 years time as a AVP or director level).

Personally I would want to be able to enact or initiate/lead change in the company, and having the autonomy to propose and lead teams on projects to improve the company's org. structuring when I am able to reach that role. Day to day mundane administrative work is definitely not going to be appealing to me 10 years down the road.

To do so, what will be the best career path and progression within the HR field?

Thanks for any constructive advice, and I will also gladly receive any feedback if it is sounding too naive etc.

First off, your goals are too ambitious. While it is good to have high goals, they should be achievable. First off, it is not realistic to expect to reach Director level in 10 odd years. Most high performing HR people can reach at most Senior Manager or Senior Business Partner (16 – 20k monthly) in 10+ years, that’s already very aggressive. Short of participating in cronyism in some family owned company, that ain’t gonna happen in a MNC.

Some companies take the short cut out by inflating titles to placate leaving staff. A lot of people are going around with Directors and VP titles but have neither the pay nor authority to back it up. Do not set your expectations based on this nonsense.

As for strategic roles, the truly strategic roles are few and far between and are usually very senior in the organization. Do not fall for fancy job advertisements that promise “strategic initiatives” or “champion change”. As a rule of thumb, any job that pays less than 20k basic salary is a joke to be considered as strategic.

If you are keen to cheong your career in HR, the fastest and most effective way is to join a large management consultancy firm, stay on for 5 years and make the switch into a global or regional Business Partner. This might get you to Senior Manager level in 10-15 years, but very unlikely can reach Director.

Hi thanks for the comment. I do understand the current situation surrounding the problems with flamboyant job titles that do not reflect the true job nature. While pay is definitely an important aspect, I do wish that within 10 years I can at least bring back $10-$12k per month, and be able to work in a job that is beyond the ad nauseum administrative work.

Well of course to enter the big 3 in MC is far from an easy task. In terms of grades mine ain't fantastic at all, working experience I am just currently having my 1st internship, with 2 more years of school to go. While I hope that I can expand on my networks, I am still thinking about the specific industry to work in, if I exclude the possibly unrealistic goal of working in the big 3. Any advice? Thanks :)

10-12k is roughly a mid-low BP pay, so 10 years to get there is theoretically possible. But like they always say, anyobody can set whatever goal they like, but do you have what it takes to deliver?

TBH if your grades are no good and have no high profile internship it really is quite hard to get into business partnering straight away. Besides going for management consultancies, the only other realistic route is to take up a management program with a reputable MNC. In this case you will short cut the need to slog through ops/admin for 15+ years. But then competition is super tough as such positions are few.

Sorry can't really help you there. BP & compensation is the highest paid position in HR (think of them as FO in a bank) and like all other high flying careers, you will need to have strong credentials to beat off the competition.

dont really understand the term management consultancy firm. any examples?

Same old story again...

Average result, average uni, no connections, normal internships fresh grads don't want to get their hands dirty and dreaming of getting into jobs that pay big bucks.

Hi all, i have a dip in IT & currently pursuing a part time BSc in HRM (with hons) at a pte uni..i'm looking for a full time job as hr admin/hr asst & would like to do payroll in the future..i'm wondering how much starting pay should i ask for? would companies pay me based on my dip or degree? i only have few mths of admin & 1 yr of ops coordinator (both non-hr related) experience..

if i work in a company that do everything manually (don't use HRIS only paymaster)..in future when i want to work in another company that uses HRIS/SAP/or other payroll softwares..would my exp be useless lyk give me a disadvantage?

how to get a hr asst/exec job in an MNC (seldom see them post for this position)? wat other industries are good?

sorry for asking so many questions & naive ones..would really appreicate it if ur can give me any advice..thanks in advance!

For admin hr positions, it doesn’t matter. I don’t think companies care as long as you have some tertiary education and decent communication skill.

In terms of pay hr asst is ard 1.6-1.8k. If you want to do payroll, the platforms are about the same (paymaster, EPE, SAP, PS, zapper, converge etc. not much difference) so should be ok.

I think it makes more sense to get your pte deg first then apply for an hr admin executive job, like that easier to get 2-2.2k for part time deg. Also to let u know, payroll in bigger companies usually have peak period every month, so u must be prepared to stay very late about 1.5weeks every month.

I'm 22 and I have a dip in IT. I'm taking my UOL-BIZ degree(pt) now. I just quit my job and one of the reasons is that it'll be irrelevant to the degree im going to graduate with. So I would want take this 3 years or so to rack up some relevant working exp.

I'm good with people, strong verbal communication skills, detail-oriented and willing to do "sai kang" job if it looks good in my resume for the benefit of my future.

If I want to work in a management consulting firm or doing recruiting or a consultant when I do graduate and climbing the corporate ladder...What kind of jobs should I go into to do some groundwork and have a bit of edge from the fresh grads when I do graduate?