Gosh! Grow up please....damn childish!

I didn't "keep asking" or "strategize" to "defeat the cream of the crop talent" which is "Understandable but laughably naïve" wow look at your big words big guy. You don't know who I am so stop patronizing me.

Ok, so 1 person said it's not possible, then I definitely will take that into consideration, of course since it seems to be near impossible. I will look into other areas or industry I can do then. You don't have to be condescending when I'm merely asking for opinions.

It also seems people here in Sg think that once you've made a bad move in your career path or you took longer than others to realize what you wanna do,so you don't achieve well academically into the local uni, you're basically doomed. An elitist attitude.

Take it in the right spirit. This is life and not just confined to people here in Sg. If you don't have a headstart, it just means you have to work a lot harder!!! One of the most effective way of motivating yourself is the strong desire to prove wrong to those who look down on you.

Thank you!

Exactly, I'm taking it all in the right spirit, I can accept when someone says it's hard, or near impossible etc, because hey, it is! But being condescending is another thing.

Any other opinions from others?

The guy on top was probably too direct & came across as a little abrasive, but as someone who has hung around here for some time, I can see where he's coming from.

This pattern has been recurring in most topics seeking career advice, be it banking, investments, ship brokerage, civil service & now HR. Newbies will come in & declare they want to join some highly paid position, but then proceed to describe a very normal education and work experience.

A few knowledgeable forumers will advise them not to waste time on such hopeless endeavors. Most newbies will refuse to accept that & start threads or join other dialogues basically asking the same question over & over in different wording. Then you also have a lot of people who know nothing on the subject but spout useless slogans of encouragement at the sides - nonsense like never say die, dare to dream, there is always a 1% chance, you just need perseverance so on so forth.

I don't know much about HR, but as someone experienced in the financial sector, I'm used to telling people online/offline what they can realistically aim for. Seldom are people satisfied and most either ignore me & seek out false assurances from the sloganeering crowd or lambast me for being negative and insulting.

Based on what I'm hearing on the pay of HR consultants, C&B or Business Partnering, they are indeed comparable to top paying roles in the financial sector. As such assuming what I'm hearing is accurate, these are unlikely to be jobs where an average graduate can get into.

How about SHRI Academy? Is it recognized?

I went to 2 SHRI functions before and the only active members seem to be old admin aunties.

I doubt with this kind of alumni the degree can be worth much.

Thanks for sharing. I was one of the "lucky" few who made it to an international C&B consultancy firm in 2007 just before the crisis hit.

Only stayed there for 2 years. Meeting clients doing sales during office hours and going back office to work on projects past midnight wasn’t my cup of tea no matter how much bonus they give.

The good thing was my benefits specialization allowed me to jump into a ASEAN Rewards roles with a reputable MNC with a nice increment. It has boosted my career (currently on 6700 monthly) compared to peers who start from scratch in corp roles.

SHRI is a gathering place for stat board & SME junior to mid level HR people. If you want to get into these companies can join them for network.

As for their degrees, it will be treated just like any other non NUS/SMU/NTU open degree.

I am now exploring joining a C&B consultancy base on advise from my HR colleague.

I graduated 5 years ago with 2nd upper honors from NUS major in economics. Now working as learning manager in a local listed company, pay @ $3600 with 2.5 mth bonus inclusive AWS.

Base on my pay & background, I don't think need to apply for entry consultant right? Should I apply as senior consultant or manager?

you are really wasting your 2nd upper degree, 5 years and only getting 3.6K ???wtf..

you should join EDB or ministry of trade/industry/GIC/MAS.....or any economist job with economist scheme with civil service or at least an MX scheme with other job scope...

If your are with government sector, you should be getting 5-7k salary range by now

Yeah..Wtf 3.6k?? Some people from SIM who took "soft" degrees are probably earning more than you.

Hi all!

I am a fresh grad with a bachelor in business admin (management and marketing) from a local uni trying to secure a job in the HR sector but I've been quite unsuccessful till date as most of the entry level HR jobs are usually HR admin/ generalist openings that require people with at least 2 years of prior experience. Honestly speaking, I am quite unsure on the HR path that I want to embark on, having no working experience in HR, only studied it in uni but became interested. I would just like to ask about your opinions on the best entry level hr positions that one can take that would allow a good career progression?

I have been following this thread from the beginning and much is all talk about the how the prospects of C&B/ Talent Mgmt / Headhunting / HR BP are much better than those of Training and Development/ HR Generalist.

I would just like to ask if there are any HR Training professionals here who would like to share about their job progression and salary scale?

I have an upcoming career opportunity as a Training Executive for a regional training centre for a Jap MNC. Having had a short discussion with the hiring manager about the job scope, it sure seems interesting and full of opportunities to learn a lot and eventually become a trainer. However, i am quite concerned that Training professionals earn much lesser as compared to their higher earning HR peers from headhunting/ talent mgmt. With regards to this, can I ask..what are the potential career progression opportunities for a training exec?

Comparing this to 2 other opportunities as a HR generalist/executive in the govt sector, which is a better choice? (turned to govt sector due to desperation as the private sectors are not hiring much entry positions currently, haha) In a dilemma as to which to choose as govt job sure pays much better w work life balance but in terms of career progression & red tape... :(

Thanks in advance for the advice and help! :)

Generally speaking, training is the second lowest paid HR after administration. The good thing is mid career people who have 8 - 10 years of training experience are sometimes able to transfer internally to talent development which has better prospects. This route tends to be slower than if you specialize in talent earlier, but at least you are not constrained just to training which honestly is quite dead end.

In terms of payscale for training is quite standard. If you are a deg grad, you start off the first 3 – 4 years on executive/associate level. This normally means doing the admin work, signing up courses, arranging trainers, co-coordinating logistics, maintaining skill inventory database etc

Most start to get promoted to AM or manager with about 5/6 yrs exp (pay should be 4 - 4.5k). From what I see still not much difference in job scope, maybe you get to run some simple junior level training like safety, teamwork, company culture etc. Other technical courses the training manager need to source & negotiate for consultants or corporate trainer.

This is the default ending point of the training career. Most training managers will max out their career & pay about 10 years into work at 5 – 6k then coast along with general wage increment after that.

Beyond that those who still want to climb the corporate ladder will need to branch out either to partnering or talent development. In certain top MNCs, some trainers might get to join internal company schools and yet forge another career, but this is rare as opportunities are usually given to talent development or external well-known corporate exec trainers.

Another thing if you join training, you must be prepared to work after office hr and during weekends as many internal trainings are held on Saturdays or weekday early morning requiring you to go venue scouting or sort out logistics the night before.

As for whether jap MNC or government better, both sides got pros & cons.

Government pay increase will be better, more stable and you get to learn in detail all the processes. HR processes are very standard across ministries & stat boards. Knowledge of the processes allows you to switch within public sector easily so job secruity will be very high. Cons is this will be a generalist admin role, so you will likely retire Assistant Director level (~7k currently)

Jap MNC are famous for slow salary increments & little differentiation for individual performance, so in terms of pay progression might be slower than even normal training careers in other MNC. The good thing is since the job is part of a regional training centre, exposure to different countries, training programs could increase your chance to move into other HR fields once you hit the default training ceiling.

Certis Cisco....HRM Division (Operation Supervisor/Team lead)
 

Certis Cisco....HRM Division (Operation Supervisor/Team lead)

anybody noe about this position offer by Cisco??? izzit consider HR-skills?
izzit a good job? no need working experience at all , how can it be??

-Manage a team of up to 200 operation members
- Attend and make decisions relating to the ground operational assignments and manpower deployment matters
- Responsible for logistics, HR planning and on projects
- Handle training / on board programme, perform survey, appraisal, supervisory checks, operation framework and strategic planning for division
-Overall in charge of the operation team to implement and develop process and procedure

-------------Salary Package

Employees will be expecting the following benefits during the employment
Base Salary from $2700 to $3300.00 (Based on qualification)
AWS (1 month of your offered salary)
Transport allowances ($350 monthly)
Working Location: East & West area

Imagine 200 people (mostly FTs) who are in shitty jobs and you have to manage them (more like being their nanny). Definitely a shitty job.

This is confirm a generalist admin job. To make matters worse, it primarily deals with the lowest level of staff, i.e. O Level & below. I don't think you will learn anything really HR there. They just package doing sai gang for the secuirty guards / aux police as "manage 200 operations members" :D

Plus side is starting pay quite decent, but down side is this kind of job dead end before you even start, no prospects to advance in HR at all. FYI Certis average increase is 3%, promotion 6 to 8%, you do the maths and see what happen 5 yrs down the road.

Hi I use to work as in Learning & Development (nice word for training) for 14 months, have now moved on to something else. Just sharing my experience for those interested in training.

I considered L&D as a career because impression was internal trainer, interesting things like competency analysis and design curriculum. So I join a French medical supplier hoping to learn all that. Turn out it was completely different.

My duties consist of filing, training plan documentation, chase for attendance records, update database to adhere to the People Developer standards certification which they were trying to get. When it came to actual training, it was more like event management, booking hotels, arranging transport, AV, buying things like straws, cardboard, markers for team games and compiling slides which the senior managers wanted.

Honestly I don’t understand why they need to pay a L&D Manager 4.8k to do all this clerical work when they can just hire a experience administrator for half the price. I assume that the company was just disorganized and don’t know what training is about, but now I read other comments seems this is the norm?

Can I know which degree is more recognized if I want to head into this industry? Thanks!

You are already much better, I am only getting 3.6k now & doing the same sh1t as well. They even throw organizing townhall session, volunteer activities and family day at me now saying this is for development purpose :(

Take up the job to lock in the 3.3k high start salary... Job hop when you find a better job lor... At the end of the day, it's about how much $$ you take home now.. and how much $$ you can ask for at the next interview... Meanwhile take time to upgrade yourself.. so you dun become complacent and rot in a job that doesn't teach you anything... the good thing is that the extra cash you earn you can throw it back into your personnal upgrading..

Bad advice.

Certis has a bad reputation in the market and considered a small-med local company. After few years there is no where to hop other than local SME doing admin.

Hi what position did u start off with to get urself at this stage? How did you get into HR-business partner? been actively looking around for corporate HR positions but most of these positions require several years of HR experience, With you starting working in such field since graduation, how did you get started? can share ur success story?
i am lost in my job search for such positions. can enlighten me?

Hnnm
 

Increase So low increment? The agency told me bonus minimum 3 months. AWS is offered but monthly basis.. I thought a chance to manage all these operational member will gain exp in terms of manpower planning and human resourcing. That's why I am station as HRM division.

Downside is how come no need working experience. I just wonder the scope seems like doing appraisal, mainly on HR stuffs like probation interview etc will give HR exp? Maybe dealin with the wrong side of employees because they are operational side.

I am from engineering and with project mgt exp wana step into this field but afraid wrong choice and this job is one that can match my pay and deal closely with HR .. It's shitty to manage these people because they are of diff background, that's why challenging but isn't this gg to up my resume??

I don't think there's such a thing as guaranteed 3 month bonus in Certis, I can't say for sure, but you best see it in black & white otherwise is BS.

You are right in your skepticism, nobody is going to offer a fresh grad a managerial position to manage 200 odd guys. Do not fall for the word "manage". The correct word is "provide support". With this kind of liberal word use, any diploma grad join a manufacturing plant as HR Assistant will be "managing" a few thousand people.

As for skills, yes of course you will learn something, just not the right thing to move into the lucrative side of HR. This is a pure ops generalist role, such skills are only useful for pursuing the generalist admin path in places like service, retail & manufacturing environment which is long hours and slow pay progression.

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with HR ops admin. It's probably a stable job with small increments & decent promotions along the way if you stay long enough, just that progression will be like a normal engineering job, no way to really accelerate your career because you have no exposure to the corporate side of things.

Depends on your career aspiration I guess.

I am a business partner for reward & performance tracking. Package is average just like most peers in my industry, just crossed 10k this year, but my career to HR is different compared to the rest.

I started off as an auditor in Deloitte for 3 years before moving off to internal audit with an ex-client. It so happened a large part of my scope of audit was in the company’s operations, risk and financial measures. During that time I worked closely with the Reward guys as much of my work on governance of employee payments overlap with theirs.

After a while there was a reorg and my role was made redundant as they consolidated the audit function under RHQ in HK, couldn’t relocate due to personal reasons. Luckily at that time HR wanted to establish a performance tracking team under Reward, so naturally I made an internal transfer and the rest is history.

such reports shall not be taken as golden truth... but any answers on forum shall not be taken as golden truth either... :)

I notice a lot of finance background move to reward/C&B. Are the jobs similar?

I have >5 yr payroll experience and apply for many reward openings before, but never get any interview.

Can you recommend me HR related job... I would like to work under you or ur company...i want to become a business partner in future

Anybody know if a 1-year contract HR in MOE entitled to 13th month bonus and performance bonus?

Charterhouse or Randstad, which is better?

Cisco
 

Izit really that bad??

I can see there is performance appraisal, training development, supervisory and working with HR, manpower planning, quite smilar to HR related. For now switching from engineering to HR i need to cut pay and this position being offered come closest to my pay and give me a headstart in HR career.

I wan to balance my pay income while still able to expose to HR related, and Cisco is considered as corporate now. I also understand cisco has HR dept stand alone which deal with recruitment. I just thinking if one day jump ship to corporate or business partnering, will it somehow help abit?

Yes shitty people are hard to manage...but it put myself to a test if my resume state managing 100- 200 shitty people (definitely will raise some eyebrowns?) what more they are shitty people...

Others already answered and you repeating the same points. My view is this

1) Certis is a privatized SME with mainly blue collar staff. HR dept is process time sheet, termination, road shows, walk in interviews, payroll, claims, welfare etc. If you OK with this sort of work then fine, just another career, nothing wrong. The headstart this job will give you is admin/generalist or floor supervisor not HR.

2) Possible to jump to BP/COE but unlikely. This sort of experience not relevant and MNCs and blue chip GLCs prefer candidates who are in more progressive companies and have knowledge in industry HR best practices.

3) Management skills is not about number of people, otherwise CEOs will all come from construction foreman & factory supervisor. It’s about the quality of people under you and the complexity & decision making of the job. Supervisor skill from 200 high turnover mish mash part time, temp, perm security guards has little value. A lot of SAF regulars learn this the hard way when they leave army.

4) At the end of the day it’s your career & your choice. Personally if I’m really interested in moving to HR and there are no push factors to leave engineering, I will wait patiently until a good opportunity comes along, otherwise is jumping for the sake of jumping.

Any inputs? In terms of job and advancement

No difference, hundreds of agencies in SG all roughly the same commission plan anyway.

Charterhouse is an executive search firm while Randstad is more like a recruitment agency.

Nah, both are agencies. Charterhouse leaders were poached from other agencies like Kelly & Talent2.

Exec search firms are little known since they don't advertise in mass media.

Hi, thanks for clarifying.

But charterhouse deal with C levels position and above while Randstad deal with support stuff till executive level in their staffing department. With that in mind, won't charterhouse be more prestige in that sense?

Charterhouse claims it does C-Level, but they don’t have any real CXO roles. Most are local or sub-region GMs/Finance IT Marketing Heads glorified as CXO. They target the mid level manager space just like Ranstad. The only difference is Ranstad extends further down to cover lower level positions that Charterhouse don't do.

The real exec search firms with offices in Asia are Egon Zender, Henderick & Struggles, Korn Ferry and boutiques like Chapman, Nimitt & Co etc. If you want to join them you have to bring at least about $1.5m pipeline, don’t think they will entertain you otherwise unless is for backend position.

Thank you. This is very helpful.

So if lets say I am offered a position in Randstad doing recruitment for lower levels, I am better off taking up the offer doing recruitment for Charterhouse? At least they are targeting managerial level.