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Unregistered 16-09-2023 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 255989)
Hi! SLs spoke to me recently and told me they want to offer me SH(Internal) but he hasn’t like confirmed which area because they need to speak to others first. But I get the rough sensing that I’ll be working closely with my new HOD whom I hate working with. If I were to take up SH(Internal), must I stay in the school for another 2 years? Cos I’ve intention to leave after next year.

Some context, I’m GEO3, got promoted in 2021. So I thought I’m too “immature” to be promoted.
the human factor matters a lot...and as a very new UNOFFICIAL head, your voice will end up bring smaller than other KPs...unofficial also means no promises of progression

suggest u look elsewhere since already leaving

Unregistered 16-09-2023 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 255989)
Hi! SLs spoke to me recently and told me they want to offer me SH(Internal) but he hasn’t like confirmed which area because they need to speak to others first. But I get the rough sensing that I’ll be working closely with my new HOD whom I hate working with. If I were to take up SH(Internal), must I stay in the school for another 2 years? Cos I’ve intention to leave after next year.

Some context, I’m GEO3, got promoted in 2021. So I thought I’m too “immature” to be promoted.
Internal appointment doesn't require you to stay for 2 years. Anyway, if you asked me 5 years ago I'd advise NEVER to take up an internal appointment, because it is just pure, thankless suffering.. especially at GEO3. Drawing entry-level pay to do half of a KP's job.. wtf?

But nowadays it seems like internal appointments are the new trend and some SLs seem to have grown thick enough skulls to make it a requirement to serve some years in the internal appointment before even considering putting you up for interview. So maybe cannot siam already.

Unregistered 16-09-2023 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 255880)
If it slows down promotion, then it has adverse effects. Whether it is formally categorised as 'adverse grade' or not.

Of course we know that this is just one of MOE's many efforts to slow down the rate of promotion of EOs. As if we weren't already one of the slowest in the whole public service. If any EO doubts this, apply for a lateral transfer to another public service agency and you'll see how far behind your same-exp/same-age peers you are.
Depends. where you start matters. At a 40 year old HOT GEO5 at higher end, no internal appt whatsoever and my salary i know cuz i saw in black and white same as a deputy director in a ministry

title/scope of responsibility vs pay scale diff.

Unregistered 16-09-2023 08:16 PM
IS ranking over? I adjust my yearly behavoir according to ranking so I need to know..

Unregistered 16-09-2023 09:37 PM
Time to let loose and show ur true colours!!!

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 255921)
Yup, honestly anything is possible as long as you are able to justify the budget/purchase.

We don't have enough information to judge in this case since it sounds like he was operating on a very tight timeline (needing to order in advance before confirmation of numbers from parents letters causing a mismatch in qty). Why the tight timeline? Is it poor planning on his part? Also op stated there were 'many complaints from SMC' which means that this may not be an isolated incident.

Anyway most likely it will be a C-, because to give D the officer needs to have been counselled and given opportunity to improve. C- still not considered that adverse.
Given a D as a JC teacher but is ok. decided to leave for the private sector. but before leaving decided to sleep and cum inside my 18 year old student who is in love with me for several months.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 255989)
Hi! SLs spoke to me recently and told me they want to offer me SH(Internal) but he hasn’t like confirmed which area because they need to speak to others first. But I get the rough sensing that I’ll be working closely with my new HOD whom I hate working with. If I were to take up SH(Internal), must I stay in the school for another 2 years? Cos I’ve intention to leave after next year.

Some context, I’m GEO3, got promoted in 2021. So I thought I’m too “immature” to be promoted.
No obligation to stay as internal KP. If you hate working with the HOD, it's not a great role to be in.

One thought: it'd probably be easier (but not compulsory) to secure a KP role during open posting with an internal appointment under your belt. If you think you can hang on till you get GEO4, that might be worth considering? Or can think about trying for a HQ role.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256055)
No obligation to stay as internal KP. If you hate working with the HOD, it's not a great role to be in.

One thought: it'd probably be easier (but not compulsory) to secure a KP role during open posting with an internal appointment under your belt. If you think you can hang on till you get GEO4, that might be worth considering? Or can think about trying for a HQ role.
Yeah you're right. He talks down to me as though I'm an idiot and he doesn't protect his people so I really don't want to work for him and clear his mess.

I don't think I can tank another year in this school so that's why I wanted to apply posting next year. I also rejected taking up another leadership role simply because I don't want to be in leadership track, I just want to be a regular teacher doing things I like, but then now want to offer SH (internal).

Unregistered 17-09-2023 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256061)
Yeah you're right. He talks down to me as though I'm an idiot and he doesn't protect his people so I really don't want to work for him and clear his mess.

I don't think I can tank another year in this school so that's why I wanted to apply posting next year. I also rejected taking up another leadership role simply because I don't want to be in leadership track, I just want to be a regular teacher doing things I like, but then now want to offer SH (internal).
i think u made a smart decision. its good that u assessed the people and environment around u well

if u already know what u want, go for it! :)

Unregistered 17-09-2023 10:05 AM
When will the elections allowance be paid?

Unregistered 17-09-2023 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256061)
Yeah you're right. He talks down to me as though I'm an idiot and he doesn't protect his people so I really don't want to work for him and clear his mess.

I don't think I can tank another year in this school so that's why I wanted to apply posting next year. I also rejected taking up another leadership role simply because I don't want to be in leadership track, I just want to be a regular teacher doing things I like, but then now want to offer SH (internal).
If they’re offering you the internal role and you got GEO3 in 2021, likely that you can be promoted to GEO4 in April. So don’t burn bridges until you get GEO4 cause it opens up more options for you. So advice is to take up the offer first before applying for OPE next year. Though it will not look good for you to apply out as other SLs will question why you’re giving up the opportunity to be confirmed.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256070)
If they’re offering you the internal role and you got GEO3 in 2021, likely that you can be promoted to GEO4 in April. So don’t burn bridges until you get GEO4 cause it opens up more options for you. So advice is to take up the offer first before applying for OPE next year. Though it will not look good for you to apply out as other SLs will question why you’re giving up the opportunity to be confirmed.
Many assumptions here that may not hold true everywhere. I was given LH internal as a fresh GEO3 and slogged for 3 years before I decided to apply out. Finally promoted to GEO4 in my second posting after a total of 4.5 years as a GEO3, 3 of which I spent getting A/B grades as an internal LH.

I don't feel like my first school had much intention to push me up, they were just trying to fill gaps and offload my HOD a bit.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256061)
Yeah you're right. He talks down to me as though I'm an idiot and he doesn't protect his people so I really don't want to work for him and clear his mess.

I don't think I can tank another year in this school so that's why I wanted to apply posting next year. I also rejected taking up another leadership role simply because I don't want to be in leadership track, I just want to be a regular teacher doing things I like, but then now want to offer SH (internal).
Consider the teaching track? You spend a lot of time not only teaching students but also teaching and mentoring fellow teachers. You may want to do a stint in AST at some point, preferably to a branch that works closely with teacher leaders, to see if that sort of path may be something to aspire towards.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256027)
Depends. where you start matters. At a 40 year old HOT GEO5 at higher end, no internal appt whatsoever and my salary i know cuz i saw in black and white same as a deputy director in a ministry

title/scope of responsibility vs pay scale diff.
You must be comparing with a very young MX11/MX11a DD. Or a DD in an agency that practices title inflation, like MTI.

You want to compare, compare it with a 40 yo go-getter with the same 15+ year runway as you.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256073)
Consider the teaching track? You spend a lot of time not only teaching students but also teaching and mentoring fellow teachers. You may want to do a stint in AST at some point, preferably to a branch that works closely with teacher leaders, to see if that sort of path may be something to aspire towards.
I stated my preference to be a ST but they said oh you're still young. But I have no intentions of becoming a KP.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256072)
Many assumptions here that may not hold true everywhere. I was given LH internal as a fresh GEO3 and slogged for 3 years before I decided to apply out. Finally promoted to GEO4 in my second posting after a total of 4.5 years as a GEO3, 3 of which I spent getting A/B grades as an internal LH.

I don't feel like my first school had much intention to push me up, they were just trying to fill gaps and offload my HOD a bit.
Was this what you wanted? Or like they 'forced' you to it?

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256070)
If they’re offering you the internal role and you got GEO3 in 2021, likely that you can be promoted to GEO4 in April. So don’t burn bridges until you get GEO4 cause it opens up more options for you. So advice is to take up the offer first before applying for OPE next year. Though it will not look good for you to apply out as other SLs will question why you’re giving up the opportunity to be confirmed.
I know but I feel I'm too young in service to be promoted. And I really have intentions of applying for OPE next year. But not sure if I should tell them when I'm rejecting this position lol. I'm not looking to climb or be in a KP position. I just want to teach.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256079)
I stated my preference to be a ST but they said oh you're still young. But I have no intentions of becoming a KP.
You could be in a tricky predicament as if you outright reject the internal appointment, your career trajectory could change in such a way that your progression rate may be limited.

In simple terms, the panel could see it as "no aspiration" and your CEP (or whatever it has evolved into now) may be left alone to rot.

Open posting to AST maybe? Haha

Unregistered 17-09-2023 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256081)
I know but I feel I'm too young in service to be promoted. And I really have intentions of applying for OPE next year. But not sure if I should tell them when I'm rejecting this position lol. I'm not looking to climb or be in a KP position. I just want to teach.
Are you a scholar?

If yes, there is no such thing as too young to promote

If no, refer to the age norms/yoe info shared earlier, for promotion

Unregistered 17-09-2023 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256085)
Are you a scholar?

If yes, there is no such thing as too young to promote

If no, refer to the age norms/yoe info shared earlier, for promotion
How fast are we talking about? Like SAFOS scholarship speed?

Unregistered 17-09-2023 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256078)
You must be comparing with a very young MX11/MX11a DD. Or a DD in an agency that practices title inflation, like MTI.

You want to compare, compare it with a 40 yo go-getter with the same 15+ year runway as you.
The biggest chasms are when you compare EOs in their late 20s or early 30s with people in other agencies. EOs go up extremely slowly in that stage of their career.

40s, 50s, people start to settle down, slow down etc

Unregistered 17-09-2023 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256082)
You could be in a tricky predicament as if you outright reject the internal appointment, your career trajectory could change in such a way that your progression rate may be limited.

In simple terms, the panel could see it as "no aspiration" and your CEP (or whatever it has evolved into now) may be left alone to rot.

Open posting to AST maybe? Haha
I see. Thanks for the input. I'll think about it.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256082)
You could be in a tricky predicament as if you outright reject the internal appointment, your career trajectory could change in such a way that your progression rate may be limited.

In simple terms, the panel could see it as "no aspiration" and your CEP (or whatever it has evolved into now) may be left alone to rot.

Open posting to AST maybe? Haha
hmmm based on what you're saying, if new officers dont take up appointments assigned by KPs and SLs, the officer will be penalised?

so an officer's progression is not of his/her own decision, but for superiors to control?

Unregistered 17-09-2023 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256103)
hmmm based on what you're saying, if new officers dont take up appointments assigned by KPs and SLs, the officer will be penalised?

so an officer's progression is not of his/her own decision, but for superiors to control?
Let's put it this way: if an officer has a high CEP, but the school is perceived as not grooming the officer to climb the ladder, then the school will have to answer for it. If the answer is that the officer feels that they are not ready, then the CEP will have to be adjusted accordingly.

If the officer doesn't start with a high CEP, but is not ready for greater development, then there is no justification to review the CEP upwards.

Part of good org awareness is also being able to meet organisational needs, not just exercising your own power to pick and choose the appointment you want all the time.

Unregistered 17-09-2023 07:34 PM
Hi all. I intend to leave the service after getting my Connect plan at the end of this year. May I know which date I can safely put in my resignation? Without forfeiting my connect plan of course.

Unregistered 18-09-2023 03:20 PM
fail
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256045)
Given a D as a JC teacher but is ok. decided to leave for the private sector. but before leaving decided to sleep and cum inside my 18 year old student who is in love with me for several months.
You fail as a teacher.

Unregistered 18-09-2023 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256103)
hmmm based on what you're saying, if new officers dont take up appointments assigned by KPs and SLs, the officer will be penalised?

so an officer's progression is not of his/her own decision, but for superiors to control?
obviously, are you bad at reading social situations?

Unregistered 18-09-2023 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256072)
Many assumptions here that may not hold true everywhere. I was given LH internal as a fresh GEO3 and slogged for 3 years before I decided to apply out. Finally promoted to GEO4 in my second posting after a total of 4.5 years as a GEO3, 3 of which I spent getting A/B grades as an internal LH.

I don't feel like my first school had much intention to push me up, they were just trying to fill gaps and offload my HOD a bit.
SLs can be scumbags but at least you were rewarded with As.

Unregistered 18-09-2023 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256079)
I stated my preference to be a ST but they said oh you're still young. But I have no intentions of becoming a KP.
haha, must reserve ST for old timers, otherwise when they ( me) hit saiary cap at GEO5 at age 40 how to be motivated to do more?
Also how to mentor 55 year old teachers if you are 30?

Unregistered 18-09-2023 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256089)
How fast are we talking about? Like SAFOS scholarship speed?
Any overseas scholar should expect clockwork-like promotion every 2 years.

Acting SH in 1 year of getting geo3.

Geo4 by 4th year of service, with official SH or maybe HOD appointment.

Sometimes promotions in consecutive years even.

Otherwise, how to attain accolade of being youngest principal at early to mid 30s, considering males only complete uni at 25, and complete NIE at 26/27.

Between GEO2 to Superscale H, there are 7 ranks to clear. Even if promote every 2 years, still take 14 years.

Maybe add a year between promotion for local scholars.

Unregistered 18-09-2023 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256208)
Any overseas scholar should expect clockwork-like promotion every 2 years.

Acting SH in 1 year of getting geo3.

Geo4 by 4th year of service, with official SH or maybe HOD appointment.

Sometimes promotions in consecutive years even.

Otherwise, how to attain accolade of being youngest principal at early to mid 30s, considering males only complete uni at 25, and complete NIE at 26/27.

Between GEO2 to Superscale H, there are 7 ranks to clear. Even if promote every 2 years, still take 14 years.

Maybe add a year between promotion for local scholars.
If you are destined to hit the superscale grades, you won't take 14 years to get there.

If you are not, after chionging 14 years and taking up whatever KP positions you can find, you are probably still fermenting slowly at SEO1 or SEO2.

Unregistered 19-09-2023 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256212)
If you are destined to hit the superscale grades, you won't take 14 years to get there.

If you are not, after chionging 14 years and taking up whatever KP positions you can find, you are probably still fermenting slowly at SEO1 or SEO2.

Correct! A high performing scholar should hit the superscale grade by 35.

Unregistered 20-09-2023 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256208)
Any overseas scholar should expect clockwork-like promotion every 2 years.

Acting SH in 1 year of getting geo3.

Geo4 by 4th year of service, with official SH or maybe HOD appointment.

Sometimes promotions in consecutive years even.

Otherwise, how to attain accolade of being youngest principal at early to mid 30s, considering males only complete uni at 25, and complete NIE at 26/27.

Between GEO2 to Superscale H, there are 7 ranks to clear. Even if promote every 2 years, still take 14 years.

Maybe add a year between promotion for local scholars.

Local teaching scholar can fly fast, if CEP is high and first sch is nurturing

2013: graduated first class honours from local uni (age: 25)
2014: graduated from NIE, with PGDE (Distinction)
2015-2019: classroom teacher for 1 year, then subject head
2020-2021: HQ
2022 onwards: vice-principal (age: 34)

Unregistered 20-09-2023 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256330)
Local teaching scholar can fly fast, if CEP is high and first sch is nurturing

2013: graduated first class honours from local uni (age: 25)
2014: graduated from NIE, with PGDE (Distinction)
2015-2019: classroom teacher for 1 year, then subject head
2020-2021: HQ
2022 onwards: vice-principal (age: 34)

all scholars are identified as future KP, some are future SL, some are future DGE

Unregistered 20-09-2023 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256330)
Local teaching scholar can fly fast, if CEP is high and first sch is nurturing

2013: graduated first class honours from local uni (age: 25)
2014: graduated from NIE, with PGDE (Distinction)
2015-2019: classroom teacher for 1 year, then subject head
2020-2021: HQ
2022 onwards: vice-principal (age: 34)


Keep it up! Hope to hear from you soon of your next promotion.

Unregistered 20-09-2023 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256212)
If you are destined to hit the superscale grades, you won't take 14 years to get there.

If you are not, after chionging 14 years and taking up whatever KP positions you can find, you are probably still fermenting slowly at SEO1 or SEO2.
Not necessarily bad to stay as SH or HOD in the long-term. SEO1, SEO2 salary is not bad, and the more years you stay on the job, the better and more efficient you are supposed to become at your work. Ultimately a sweet spot could be achieved.

Of course, if one desires to make wider impact beyond the school, then retiring as a SH is not satisfying la.

Unregistered 20-09-2023 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256341)
Not necessarily bad to stay as SH or HOD in the long-term. SEO1, SEO2 salary is not bad, and the more years you stay on the job, the better and more efficient you are supposed to become at your work. Ultimately a sweet spot could be achieved.

Of course, if one desires to make wider impact beyond the school, then retiring as a SH is not satisfying la.
A good performing non scholar teacher can expire to reach the SEO1 level at early thirties.

Unregistered 20-09-2023 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256330)
Local teaching scholar can fly fast, if CEP is high and first sch is nurturing

2013: graduated first class honours from local uni (age: 25)
2014: graduated from NIE, with PGDE (Distinction)
2015-2019: classroom teacher for 1 year, then subject head
2020-2021: HQ
2022 onwards: vice-principal (age: 34)
Since when can one skip HOD/YH role before becoming VP? Unless the person was AD in HQ?

Unregistered 20-09-2023 08:06 PM
Pgs
 
Has anyone went for PGS interview before? Can share how was the experience like? What were the questions asked and what kind of officer are they looking for?

Unregistered 20-09-2023 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 256363)
Since when can one skip HOD/YH role before becoming VP? Unless the person was AD in HQ?
HOD/YH or AD experience is not a hard requirement to become a VP.

If the panel finds you suitable (despite your lack of HOD/YH/AD experience), you can be appointed. End of story.

Same way that many high flyers skip SH/LH/AYH positions. They move from teacher to their FHQ posting, then come back out as HOD. It's common enough.


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