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-   -   Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment (https://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/1506-q-big4-yearly-salary-increment.html)

Unregistered 13-03-2015 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64028)
While I agree that calling big 4 fake consultants is sweeping and going overboard, neither is hyping or over-seliing them any better.

Sure, go out into the job market & tell ppl a Deloitte or PWC consultant is more "prestigious" than Oliver Wyman and see how many ppl out there are gonna be impressed.

All these rankings will just show whatever they want depending on what methdology they use. Heck even the likes of SIA/Keppel/Singtel gets ranked top employer of choice in some surveys, but go out into the job market and see who really if get offered by investment banks, o&g majors, top IT firms etc will give up and join SIA/Keppel/Singtel

The fact that these Big 4 even get questioned and ppl need to jump in to "defend" already shows they are far from being prestigious. You make it sound as if PWC & Deloitte is just ranked slightly lower than MBB, that is an understatment of the year.

A typical MBB freshie is usually a dean's list type top student from a world renowned business school with an illustrious internship experience or gets involved in other activities like NGOs/foundations/activism etc. A typical Big 4 managment consultant freshie is more likely a local university 2nd upper student. The difference cannot be starker.

1. A lot of these rankings are independent and have a host of different methodologies used that rank them based on market perception as well as current/past employees, so they are different to 'top employer of choice' surveys, which themselves are completely different to prestige rankings. Also, the comparisons of local corporations (SIA/Keppel) to the biggest MNCs have no relation whatsoever when comparing global firms in the consulting landscape. You wouldn't compare our local NTUC Fairprice with Walmart, would you? All of the firms I mentioned above are globally known.

2. The consulting space hosts a wide spectrum of functions such as strategy, operations, human capital, IT, etc. To lump management consulting as one industry and compare all firms without exception is one-dimensional. For example, Accenture is largely associated with the IT landscape, while Oliver Wyman is known for financial services consulting. The MBB boys deal with C-level execs (strategy consulting) while Deloitte is known for their S&O (strategy and ops) function. So, while you can preach about MBB being way above the rest (they are, I don't dispute that), there are major differences in terms of how these consulting firms compete. Bain and BCG were set up to compete with McK in the strategy space, and the others set up to fill the market gap for operations (lower level) consulting (HR, Finance, IT consulting).

3. I know of local grads who were recruited into MBB just this hiring season in Singapore, so.. they do not just hire from iveys, let alone the dean's listers from iveys.

At the end of the day, I responded to the claim that the Big 4 consulting firms were oceans apart from MBB and way easier to get into. I am defending the others because I feel that the original statement made is miles off the truth, and the purpose of this forum is to provide meaningful information to those who request it for the benefit of the community. While I never disputed that MBB will always be the big 3, I don't believe that just because that is so means that the other firms are not good companies or worthy to note. Take a look at managementconsulted.com, there are some very good articles and insights into the industry with various current/past consultants from MBB, Deloitte, O.W, etc that offer an in-depth look into consulting.

Unregistered 13-03-2015 09:57 AM

haha listen to some of you guys debate over consultant ranking / prestige etc really funny, come on guys what we care is what it means to an individual offer in terms of pay and promotion. who cares what rank the company is or how prestigious it is?

base on what i read here a management consultant fresh grad is offered 42k annual base in a big4 consultancy - this is a joke compared to most MAP offered by banks and MNCs, even some management trainee programs in local firms & public sector can do better.

for me if no choice that is the only offer then of course take, if not why accept this kind of lousy offer and long working hours? Just because the company is ranked high? or it is more prestigious? you gotta be joking...

Unregistered 13-03-2015 01:23 PM

I wanted to join one of the big 4 as well during my undergrad days. At first very happy when KPMG offer, but after see them just give out offers to any tom dick or harry (abt 2/3 of my coursemates had an offer from a big 4 and some even have 2 or more at the same time) simply gave up and look for other things more interesting. Never looked back since then.

Unregistered 13-03-2015 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64031)
3. I know of local grads who were recruited into MBB just this hiring season in Singapore, so.. they do not just hire from iveys, let alone the dean's listers from iveys.

BS at least for McKinsey. Show me who are these local uni fresh hires who got in as managemet consultants. We are not talking about jobs in backoffice functions like IT/Data/Finance/HR/Analytics etc. If it is so common like you say that you actually know a number of local grads that got in just this season alone, it shouldn't be hard for you to pull out at least a dozen of these profiles from online.

Unregistered 13-03-2015 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64043)
BS at least for McKinsey. Show me who are these local uni fresh hires who got in as managemet consultants. We are not talking about jobs in backoffice functions like IT/Data/Finance/HR/Analytics etc. If it is so common like you say that you actually know a number of local grads that got in just this season alone, it shouldn't be hard for you to pull out at least a dozen of these profiles from online.

because i felt like doing charity today... try LinkedIn... you're welcome

Unregistered 13-03-2015 02:52 PM

It's the truth that when you say you're a consultant, nobody will think of Big 4, they will be thinking of Bain, BCG, etc. It's also true that the state of consulting in Big 4 in Singapore is pretty lousy compared to the big names. Maybe it wasn't clear that the discussion was constrained to Singapore only. In US PWC and Deloitte are big names in the consulting biz, but definitely not here in SG. It's common knowledge that Deloitte is usually ranked last in the big 4, yet in US they are one of the strongest. Not very fair to compare the SG "branch" with the US "branch".

All are welcome to join big 4 consulting if you think it's prestigious, don't complain 2-3 years down the road when you realise your pay sucks and first thing people say when you tell them you work in big 4 is "oh, you're an auditor?"

Unregistered 13-03-2015 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64046)
because i felt like doing charity today... try LinkedIn... you're welcome

Tried already, I do not see any fresh hire as managemant consultant from a local uni so far. How about you come up with a few links? It's pretty pointless to just come up with generic comments like this. Either there is or there isn't. So where in linkedin?

Unregistered 13-03-2015 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64047)
It's the truth that when you say you're a consultant, nobody will think of Big 4, they will be thinking of Bain, BCG, etc. It's also true that the state of consulting in Big 4 in Singapore is pretty lousy compared to the big names. Maybe it wasn't clear that the discussion was constrained to Singapore only. In US PWC and Deloitte are big names in the consulting biz, but definitely not here in SG. It's common knowledge that Deloitte is usually ranked last in the big 4, yet in US they are one of the strongest. Not very fair to compare the SG "branch" with the US "branch".

All are welcome to join big 4 consulting if you think it's prestigious, don't complain 2-3 years down the road when you realise your pay sucks and first thing people say when you tell them you work in big 4 is "oh, you're an auditor?"

Valid comments. Personally I think the fact their starting salary is so low in SG is a dead giveaway. It's hard to argue how prestigious or comparable to MBB when you are lowballing grads at 3k+.

Unregistered 13-03-2015 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64059)
Valid comments. Personally I think the fact their starting salary is so low in SG is a dead giveaway. It's hard to argue how prestigious or comparable to MBB when you are lowballing grads at 3k+.

What are mbb paying their fresh grads in SG?

Unregistered 13-03-2015 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64062)
What are mbb paying their fresh grads in SG?

According to glassdoor, a Mckinsey associate on the management consulting side is paid on average S$152,500. But I think this includes people who have been working for 1-2 years as well, so a fresh grad most likely S$110,000 - S$120,000

Unregistered 13-03-2015 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64057)
Tried already, I do not see any fresh hire as managemant consultant from a local uni so far. How about you come up with a few links? It's pretty pointless to just come up with generic comments like this. Either there is or there isn't. So where in linkedin?

I'm from one of the local university and I can testify that there are MBB fresh hires. However, the number of hires is extremely low (probably ~10 from M+B+B) for all local unis combined. I haven't heard of any getting into M though. I'm referring to the actual FO consulting position.

I will not provide any further details on the graduating students who obtained the offer for the sake of confidentiality. This is the internet; believing me or not is up to you. I don't stand to benefit from it in any way. Happy to answer any other forms of queries if you have though.

Unregistered 13-03-2015 10:20 PM

Hi Guys,

I have a big 4 offer for Management consulting in London. I'm just wondering whether the London experience would be valuable or I would be better off coming back home.

Unregistered 14-03-2015 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64070)
I'm from one of the local university and I can testify that there are MBB fresh hires. However, the number of hires is extremely low (probably ~10 from M+B+B) for all local unis combined. I haven't heard of any getting into M though. I'm referring to the actual FO consulting position.

I will not provide any further details on the graduating students who obtained the offer for the sake of confidentiality. This is the internet; believing me or not is up to you. I don't stand to benefit from it in any way. Happy to answer any other forms of queries if you have though.

This has got to be a joke. All I am asking for is since you claim you even know some of these so called management consultants from MBB in just this season's hiring alone, surely we should be able to find traces of them online.

We are talking about public linkedin profiles here, what confidentialty are you going on about? Please don't tell me that all these supposed fresh local uni management consultants have all vanished without even a trace online? I have briefly looked through linkedin, I don't find any. Seems rather coincident that all these local uni hires have no public profile and all very confidential.

BTW I also notice your sleight of hand in changing positions without really admitting. Earlier on you proclaim with confidence about local uni hires in MC roles in MBB. When challenged by another poster that he knows of no fresh hire MC from local uni from McKinsey, suddenly now you change tune and say you know of 10 but all just happen not to be in McKinsey, so am I to assume these 10 secretive individuals whom you know of without any online presence are all from BCG or Bain?

Unregistered 14-03-2015 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64099)
This has got to be a joke. All I am asking for is since you claim you even know some of these so called management consultants from MBB in just this season's hiring alone, surely we should be able to find traces of them online.

We are talking about public linkedin profiles here, what confidentialty are you going on about? Please don't tell me that all these supposed fresh local uni management consultants have all vanished without even a trace online? I have briefly looked through linkedin, I don't find any. Seems rather coincident that all these local uni hires have no public profile and all very confidential.

BTW I also notice your sleight of hand in changing positions without really admitting. Earlier on you proclaim with confidence about local uni hires in MC roles in MBB. When challenged by another poster that he knows of no fresh hire MC from local uni from McKinsey, suddenly now you change tune and say you know of 10 but all just happen not to be in McKinsey, so am I to assume these 10 secretive individuals whom you know of without any online presence are all from BCG or Bain?

Chill dude.. Just fyi, I'm a different person from the other guy. This is the first time that I'm posting on this thread.

I just did a quick search on google. Not sure why the other poster did not manage to find any. Just search "(Mck/Bain/BCG) (smu/ntu/nus) linkedin". You can find many examples around. Here's an example:
s://sg.linkedin.com/pub/ren-liang-tan/8a/914/89a

There are many more profiles around.

Unregistered 14-03-2015 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64107)
Chill dude.. Just fyi, I'm a different person from the other guy. This is the first time that I'm posting on this thread.

I just did a quick search on google. Not sure why the other poster did not manage to find any. Just search "(Mck/Bain/BCG) (smu/ntu/nus) linkedin". You can find many examples around. Here's an example:
s://sg.linkedin.com/pub/ren-liang-tan/8a/914/89a

There are many more profiles around.

I am the original person who mentioned that I know of local grads in MBB and the person above is someone else. Not sure why you are getting so worked up over this matter, as a simple LinkedIn search similar to what the above poster suggested brings up several local grads working in MBB.

Like he said, chill... there really is no need to be upset. Were you rejected by MBB?

Unregistered 15-03-2015 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64028)
All these rankings will just show whatever they want depending on what methdology they use. Heck even the likes of SIA/Keppel/Singtel gets ranked top employer of choice in some surveys, but go out into the job market and see who really if get offered by investment banks, o&g majors, top IT firms etc will give up and join SIA/Keppel/Singtel.

Actually, there are lots of MBB consultants in Singtel, especially from M. A simple Google search would yield such results. There are those who crossed over from the junior to managing partner (both SG and APAC) levels to occupy junior to senior positions. There isn't much of a difference in terms of the treatment they get when they cross over actually as compared to executives who crossed over from other MNCs. I guess they must have their own reasons for deciding to give up management consulting and choose a local firm over some other supposedly top MNCs. Perhaps these consultants don't stick to certain narrowly defined notions of 'prestige' and decide to make a switch based on rankings like Forbes 2000 largest companies?

Unregistered 17-03-2015 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64186)
Actually, there are lots of MBB consultants in Singtel, especially from M. A simple Google search would yield such results. There are those who crossed over from the junior to managing partner (both SG and APAC) levels to occupy junior to senior positions. There isn't much of a difference in terms of the treatment they get when they cross over actually as compared to executives who crossed over from other MNCs. I guess they must have their own reasons for deciding to give up management consulting and choose a local firm over some other supposedly top MNCs. Perhaps these consultants don't stick to certain narrowly defined notions of 'prestige' and decide to make a switch based on rankings like Forbes 2000 largest companies?

Nope, they switch because it is a bigger position for them. Many of these MBB who came to Singtel and relatively junior guys in their previous firms. They come in here, take up executive positions together with a pay raise. It is actually another career move for them.

For e.g. there is this guy who came from BCG, he is about late 30s, a junior partner probably at the career end. He come to Singtel, take up a VP position get all the perks, shares and bonus of a executive and not to mention damm lots of people below him in his department. A typical deg grad that join Singtel from scratch will not even smell a Director at this age, not to mention a VP.

Unregistered 17-03-2015 10:14 PM

3rd party
 
Im not surprised at all MBB hires local grads (the top ones of course) as some are in Goldman Sachs as well. And Ibankers make even more than consultants. Peace Out.

Unregistered 18-03-2015 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64248)
Nope, they switch because it is a bigger position for them. Many of these MBB who came to Singtel and relatively junior guys in their previous firms. They come in here, take up executive positions together with a pay raise. It is actually another career move for them.

For e.g. there is this guy who came from BCG, he is about late 30s, a junior partner probably at the career end. He come to Singtel, take up a VP position get all the perks, shares and bonus of a executive and not to mention damm lots of people below him in his department. A typical deg grad that join Singtel from scratch will not even smell a Director at this age, not to mention a VP.

Some people are old and don't want to fight it out at consulting firms. Over there you need to be a high performer else you may be shown the door. The major consulting firms all practise "up or out", which means if you don't get promoted in 2-3 years you are asked to leave. This guy probably decided to chill out and enjoy the last 15-20 years of his career after fighting for the first 15 years.

Unregistered 18-03-2015 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 64248)
For e.g. there is this guy who came from BCG, he is about late 30s, a junior partner probably at the career end. He come to Singtel, take up a VP position get all the perks, shares and bonus of a executive and not to mention damm lots of people below him in his department. A typical deg grad that join Singtel from scratch will not even smell a Director at this age, not to mention a VP.

Cool. What's the name of this VP? I might know him or have friends in Singtel who do.

That was what I read online too, that MBB Consultants who cross over to join corporate firms do so at a higher level but I realised over the years in various large MNCs/local GLCs that in reality, unless they are really good at strategy (in which case they would be treated in the same way as their non-consulting superstars in most companies), otherwise most of them assume a role at a level similar to someone who jumps in from another corporate firm.

Unregistered 22-03-2015 06:08 PM

To clarify, what is the price range (lower and upper limit) for a consultant and a senior consultant for a Big 4 (2 letter company)?
I have 8 years experience in financial service industry and a couple years of consulting background but not nearly the same management consulting/project consulting experience as in the big 4. I am going through the rounds of the interview and seems like i might have to take pay cut if I go into the big 4.

Kindly advice.
Thanks!

Unregistered 04-05-2015 07:32 PM

Anybody got into Big 4 this year? Mind sharing what the starting salary is for Audit for this year? Thanks.

Unregistered 05-05-2015 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66313)
Anybody got into Big 4 this year? Mind sharing what the starting salary is for Audit for this year? Thanks.

3750 for EY

Unregistered 05-05-2015 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66359)
3750 for EY

Are you sure? last year was 2700.

Unregistered 05-05-2015 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66372)
Are you sure? last year was 2700.

why did you even bother asking..

Unregistered 15-05-2015 11:33 PM

Manager salary
 
Hi all

I was recently offered a role as manager with the advisory team in one of the big4s.
May I please have some insight regarding the salary range of managers?
On average, what is the yoy salary increment like?

Thank you!

Unregistered 16-05-2015 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66807)
Hi all

I was recently offered a role as manager with the advisory team in one of the big4s.
May I please have some insight regarding the salary range of managers?
On average, what is the yoy salary increment like?

Thank you!

12-14k, increment 7-8%

Unregistered 17-05-2015 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66807)
Hi all

I was recently offered a role as manager with the advisory team in one of the big4s.
May I please have some insight regarding the salary range of managers?
On average, what is the yoy salary increment like?

Thank you!

7-9k

10char

Unregistered 17-05-2015 02:28 PM

How many Partners for Big 4s are there in Singapore? For the ones earning >$250k per year. Would appreciate a breakdown of the following:
1) Total number of Partners for all Big 4s
2) Breakdown into Audit/Tax/Advisory/etc
3) Chances of advancing from Manager to Partner (I understand that the chances of advancing from Year-1 Auditor to Partner is 1-2%)

Thanks!

Unregistered 17-05-2015 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66807)
Hi all

I was recently offered a role as manager with the advisory team in one of the big4s.
May I please have some insight regarding the salary range of managers?
On average, what is the yoy salary increment like?

Thank you!

What's your age and number of years of working experience?

Unregistered 17-05-2015 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66849)
What's your age and number of years of working experience?

38, 13.
Current salary 180k and was wondering if I'd be pricing myself out of the market by asking for a 20% increase.

Unregistered 17-05-2015 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66850)
38, 13.
Current salary 180k and was wondering if I'd be pricing myself out of the market by asking for a 20% increase.

Depends on whether there's push factor in your current role. If there aren't any major push factors, then 20% seems alright.

Unregistered 17-05-2015 03:36 PM

Do mgr in Deloitte need to bring in sales as part of their KPI?

Unregistered 18-05-2015 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66850)
38, 13.
Current salary 180k and was wondering if I'd be pricing myself out of the market by asking for a 20% increase.

Ha Ha Ha. Is this a joke? You want 180k + 20% for a manager position in big 4? This is the big 4 thread which refers to PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY. First year manager only earns 6k/month, fourth year manager should be around 8k+. Your 180k + 20% is already partner level salary.

Unregistered 18-05-2015 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66899)
Ha Ha Ha. Is this a joke? You want 180k + 20% for a manager position in big 4? This is the big 4 thread which refers to PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY. First year manager only earns 6k/month, fourth year manager should be around 8k+. Your 180k + 20% is already partner level salary.

I'm a curious bystander. Does a partner in big 4 make only slightly more than 200k? I'm quite surprised by this.

Unregistered 18-05-2015 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66899)
Ha Ha Ha. Is this a joke? You want 180k + 20% for a manager position in big 4? This is the big 4 thread which refers to PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY. First year manager only earns 6k/month, fourth year manager should be around 8k+. Your 180k + 20% is already partner level salary.

He could be referring to seņior manager instead of manager. I think partners earn way more than 200k!

Unregistered 19-05-2015 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66899)
Ha Ha Ha. Is this a joke? You want 180k + 20% for a manager position in big 4? This is the big 4 thread which refers to PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY. First year manager only earns 6k/month, fourth year manager should be around 8k+. Your 180k + 20% is already partner level salary.

The big 4 isn't created equal. If you're in Deloitte S&O the payscale is completely different. It takes a way longer time to make manager in S&O than the other departments in the big 4.

Unregistered 19-05-2015 10:25 AM

Many people here seem to think that you basically reach partner and that's it.

No! Generally there are 5-8 levels of partners across the big 4 and the pay differs widely. If you are at the entry level partner level 200-250k all-in is quite common.

The very senior ones will of course hit above 1 mil, but those tend to be executive level, I don't think there is any local executive in any of the big 4 based in SG now, a couple of caucasian expats at most.

Unregistered 19-05-2015 10:44 AM

I notice those who are outisde of the industry always think big 4 is very highly paid, prestigious to work for, partners make big bucks etc. But this is just a myth actually.

If you compare like for like big 4 pay is actually quite low, more comparable to a local blue chip company / GLC then a global top 100 MNC. Many layman also equate big 4 as equal to high finance, this cannot be further from the truth. If you compare an entry level partner pay with similar entry level MD pay in a global bank, the latter earns at least 2x the amount.

When I was a Director for KPMG, many people expressed shock when I chose to move to a German MNC as a finance manager thinking I got a big pay cut. They were even more shocked when I told them I got a 15% increment by joining them.

Unregistered 19-05-2015 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66925)
Many people here seem to think that you basically reach partner and that's it.

No! Generally there are 5-8 levels of partners across the big 4 and the pay differs widely. If you are at the entry level partner level 200-250k all-in is quite common.

The very senior ones will of course hit above 1 mil, but those tend to be executive level, I don't think there is any local executive in any of the big 4 based in SG now, a couple of caucasian expats at most.

This guy is correct. Entry level partner is nothing more than a highly paid employee. He may be earning 20k/month only. As you get more senior and take on roles such as head of department, you join the profit sharing scheme where your salary really grows.

FYI I was not referring to senior manager which makes on average 10k/month only. The payscale is as such:
Associate 3k
Senior Associate 4k
Managers 5-8k
Senior Managers 9-11k
Directors 12-16k
Partners 20k and above

The previous poster who used to be director in KPMG can probably agree that my figures are roughly there. There is slight variation between big 4s and departments but the rough idea is there.

Don't be fooled by the "partner" tag... there are many more internal levels for them to climb. But once you make partner you're 99% assured of a job all the way until retirement. It's up to you whether you retire with a 20-30k salary or a 50-100k salary.


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