Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10645)

So I presume that you are a student who is dreaming of getting into Cornell and possibly Cambridge. If your results are that good and your family can't afford it, why not try for a scholarship? If you don't want to be bonded, Cornell offers financial aid for families earning < USD200,000 pa.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10635)

So did any of u actually attend Cambridge or is it just that u are in awe of top schools ??

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10656)

More likely the former but discovered that the world doesn't seem to work out according to dreams and so now taking it out on SMU.

Anyone who has been around in the working world for some time will know that the battle field is littered with Ivy and Oxbridge graduates. Just pay a visit to our stat boards and ask some of those walking around in a daze where they have graduated from, if they wish to speak to you, that is.

This disillusionment arises from the distortion of a truth "that most senior corporate positions are occupied by graduates from top universities" into an untruth "that most graduates from top universities are able to land senior corporate positions".

There is a reason why SMU is so irritating to a lot of people. It will become even more irritating a decade from now when its law graduates reach partnership position and buy cars that cost more than twice the homes of some of these people walking around in a daze, even though they have only half the IQ of these people.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10645)

First of all, I doubt what your admission claims because Cornell doesn't release its 2011 decision until this Thursday (March 30th) and doesn't early write for international students. Second, if you are bright enough to get into Cornell, you would know that it costs $297K for 4 years (incl housing) unless you want to pitch a tent and sleep in it for 4 years.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10645)

If you are smart enough to get into Cornell, your A-Level results would be AAA/A with a UAS close to 90 and SAT of 2200+, so you would be an idiot to apply to SMU Econs when you could get into law. SMU doesn't release its decision for another month anyway.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10645)

So I presume that you are a student who is dreaming of getting into Cornell and possibly Cambridge. If your results are that good and your family can't afford it, why not try for a scholarship? If you don't want to be bonded, Cornell offers financial aid for families earning < USD200,000 pa.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10671)

As a Singaporean that grew up in the US, attended a top university there, and am now working locally, I'd like to give some advice to the OP:

You as a person have more of an effect on your future earnings/potential/etc than your school will. That is to say, going to a 'branded' university will not guarantee success, nor will going to an 'average' university limit you to mediocrity. I believe this is the prevalent opinion of many of the posters in this thread, but you'll always see people trying to argue otherwise (e.g. 'My average friend from Cambridge got some awesome job while my genius SMU buddy couldn't get interviews at good banks'). Your school will help, no doubt, but what you do there will make much more of a difference than simply just saying you attended XYZ university. Regardless of the school you go into, get good grades, network, get some job/internship experience, and you'll be fine no matter what.

With that said, if you are a top performer, your school can (potentially) make quite a difference. I think most will agree that Ivy grads may not be smarter on average than local grads; however, think about it from the point of view of a top-tier bank. Consider two hiring managers, one hires local grads while the other hires ivy grads. Both groups of graduates perform less than stellar and ultimately get fired. The person who hired locals would probably get blamed for hiring sub-par graduates, while the other who hired from the ivies is more likely to get branded 'unlucky'. Ultimately, there's a good chance that, all things equal, a person from a reputable school will get chosen over one that is not. It's not fair, I don't necessarily agree with it, but such is the world we live in and we must be realistic.

My advice to you: if you are confident in excelling at either Cambridge or Cornell, go for it. Get as much exposure and experience as possible. It's not just about getting the name on your resume, it's about learning a global perspective and being able to experience a completely different culture and environment, not to mention living independently -- not everyone gets this opportunity and I encourage you to try it if it's there for the taking. Once you're finishing up with school, try to land a job around your university and work there a few months, even if you are planning to return to Singapore. The rationale behind this is when you return, your last-dawn will be much higher and you will be in a great position to negotiate a salary much higher than if you had no / local experience only.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that you as a person have a much greater effect on your future than any brand name college on your resume does. But if you really want to split hairs and compare, getting a top-tier overseas education does have it's distinct advantages which go beyond getting a higher starting salary.

Best of luck in your decision and all your future endeavors!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10678)

The UK govt has not barred students from working. It has dissallowed students to stay for upto 2years to search for a proper job where they can take menial jobs. If you have a proper offer, u can stay and work.

The last post from the SG guy in US is reasonable. It depends more on u and less on the univ. Unless u perform well, the univ cannot help you much. So, I hope that if you take a foreign univ, try ur best to do well. Default success by univ name just be doing an undergrad is not sure.

Dont for once believe these supporters that a brand name will ensure big things. Only you can ensure that.

Good luck

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10680)

All things equal, a brand name top university definitely helps 100%, so do good looks.

Life's unfair.

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10675)

Hey, thank you for your advice. You mentioned that you grew up in the US and now working locally. You mean locally as in Singapore or U.S.

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10675)

If you meant Singapore, may I ask why did you not stay on in the US after graduation. Isn't the US a much better place?

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10675)

Also, is it difficult for asians to survive, find work etc after graduation? I have recently been told that the government has barred all international students from working in the UK after graduation from 2012 onwards.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10692)

No problem! Glad to help. I apologize for the confusion - I grew up in the US and now starting work locally in Singapore.



The US is a big place, so let me narrow it down to what I can directly comment on. I grew up in southern California and went to university in northern California by San Francisco / Bay Area. In short, life there is great - the weather, laid back environment, very cheap housing/cars, good pay, etc. The sole reason I came back (at the time) was to serve my National Service obligations (my parents had found a loophole to allow me to attend and complete my education first), and I had every intention of going back to the US after getting through the obstacle that is NS. However I decided to stay in Singapore due to many factors: my family (nuclear & extended) is here; tax here is uber low (also no capital gains!); my friends are great and the nightlife is fantastic; and I figured I'd try something new (most people stereotype Americans as only knowing America with no international exposure). On top of that, I saw opportunity in Singapore. In terms of pure career / earning potential, I feel that at the end-game, Singapore can match or even beat the US (tax is only a small factor in this belief). The opportunities are there, but most people aren't willing to go after it -- more on this later.



Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited to growing up in southern California and working in the San Francisco / Bay Area. Some other areas (e.g. deep south) can be very different (e.g. much more racist). For me, I didn't find being an asian any hinderance at all to my social or work life. Americans seem to discriminate on anything as long as they have something to discriminate against, mostly if you are different or an outsider. If you are fat, they'll make fun of your weight; if you are ugly, they'll make fun of your looks; if you have no social skills, they'll call you a loser. It's not really based on race, but if people are targeting you due to other reasons, your race will become a factor. Up to high school, this will be the case. But in university the people are smarter, more accepting, and more exposed to international talent. I'll have to admit that this is purely my own personal view - some of my older siblings that were raised in Singapore felt there was discrimination; perhaps I had different experiences since I was raised in the US. Regardless, I've seen people of every race achieve tremendous social success, and even as an Asian I had no problem doing the same.

As for work, it was really too easy to find a job. I have to qualify myself here - I studied Electrical Engineering & Computer Science at a top engineering school located right in/next to Silicon Valley (the tech hub of the world, basically) so it was pretty ideal (this is in no way a coincidence - research your combination of school / major / location). Though I never applied to any jobs, senior year I literally had companies calling/emailing/Facebooking me multiple times a month and sometimes week, and all of my friends who wanted to find jobs were able to - there are plenty of opportunities to network, go to career fairs, join clubs and/or resume books, etc at any school you go to.

I'll end with an explanation of my earlier claim that SG can easily rival/beat the US in terms of job prospects and opportunities, but many locals aren't willing to go for it. In the US my starting pay was $100,000 (USD) per year as a fresh-grad working at a tech startup at which I was an early employee (my best friend and colleague had a matching offer at another big established tech firm, though he decided to join with me). I came back to Singapore to do NS (and was really upset over it at first) but as I mentioned, decided to stay and work in Singapore. I've been on the job hunt for 3 months since ORD and have gotten 4 offers at various financial institutes, all of which had increased in pay -- the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept. Comparable to US $100k after taxes + CPF etc) and signed the contracts today. I cite this example because I feel that most of the people I meet here have a strong sense of what they are entitled to, and many times that actually limits them (e.g. most people wouldn't dare to turn down the concrete offer of $4k as a fresh grad that recently ORD, or try for a $6k starting salary). My opinion is, if you are confident in your abilities and can take the risk, go for what you feel you are truly worth. I really feel bad for my friends that I meet in army that feel they can only get a certain salary/job/etc because they only went to some poly/jc/uni. Don't feel too limited or tied down by your current qualifications or past!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10693)

it's kinda hard for me to comprehend how USD100k p.a is comparable to SG6k p.m

are the taxes in Cali sky-high?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10693)

it's kinda hard for me to comprehend how USD100k p.a is comparable to SG6k p.m

are the taxes in Cali sky-high?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10696)

Absolutely. In the US you pay state tax, federal tax, social security / medisave, etc. In all I was paying about 40%. So my take-home on $100k USD p.a. was roughly $60k USD p.a.

In Singapore, $6k = $72 p.a. (SGD). Not 100% familiar with CPF / tax calculations, but I think I would pay $900 per month on CPF while my employer matches $697.5 per month (CPF cap is $4,500, you pay 20% and employer matches 15.5%). This amounts to annual CPF contributions of $11,800 from me and $8,370 from my employer, or a total of $19,170.

Now calculate my earnings after CPF (aka taxable salary) to be $61,200 ($72k - $11.8k CPF). I'll pay 3.75% tax on that, or $2,700. Which means I take home $58,500

So my earnings - taxes + CPF savings is $58,500 - $2,700 + $19,170 = almost $75k SGD p.a.

Take the current exchange rate, low as it is at 1.26 SGD / USD, and you get $59,500 USD p.a., which is pretty darn close to the $60k.

Of course, one can debate the CPF isn't the same as cash on hand, etc. But regardless the ballpark figure is somewhat similar. Not to mention money I save on rent by living at home if I'm in SG (I'm 23) :P

Many people are skewed by high figures quoted by their overseas counterparts in terms of salary and the such. But take into account the insane taxes and our additional employer CPF contributions, and the gap doesn't seem as wide anymore. PLUS, there is no capital gains tax in Singapore, so those interested in investing have a HUGE advantage here!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10692)

the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10697)

thanks for ur detailed response, it puts everything into perspective now.

pretty sick that you graduated from stanford (hehe good guess?). it's my dream school but i only dared to apply to UChic and UPenn because i knew there was no chance in hell i wld have gotten into Stanford

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10680)

All things equal, a brand name top university definitely helps 100%, so do good looks.

Life's unfair.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10683)

If all things are equal, the brand name and univ name Must help.

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10665)

I am not dreaming. I have the offer, but there is no need for me to prove it over the internet. I am merely just asking for advice in terms of career prospects.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10701)

In fact, for the two pinnacle professions medicine and law, I don't notice any difference between NUS or Cambridge. Do you choose your doctors by which university they went to?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10699)

I plugged USD100K into one of those "paycheck calculators" on the internet for California and after Federal, Social Security, Medicare, California tax and "CA SDI", I got S$81,506 (using 1.26 conversion) take home pay. That's S$6,792. Your paycheck in Singapore would only be S$4,875 as your CPF isn't disposable income i.e., its not in your paycheck. Social Security is similar to CPF and Medicare is similar to Medisave.

When all is said and done, you are S$1,917 poorer in Singapore. Furthermore, if you grew up in the US and are a US permanent resident, you are subject to US taxes anyway!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10699)

Furthermore, if you grew up in the US and are a US permanent resident, you are subject to US taxes anyway!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10706)

there is also double taxation relief available for us citizens working in sg.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10706)

anw Uncle Sam allows citizens working abroad to deduct foreign income tax from the bill owing to him.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10708)

food for thought:

As far as recruitment, they have a global graduate recruitment program (the chaps are called "graduates") which is run from New York and London. The program also handles the summer interns. NUS & SMU are not in the list of institutions that they recruit from. Apprently they tried it a few years ago with poor results. Not to say that there are not a fair number of Singaporeans graduates around, but they went to top schools, not NUS/SMU. In Singapore, only Insead is on the list and they actually recruit on the Insead campus a few times a year. There are more finance MBAs, but there are all sorts so its probably not correct to say that you need finance. In the Graduate program, the only difference between MBAs and Undergrads is base pay. They do the same work. Some of the graduates from Ivies studied history, English etc, but they are really smart. The graduates are eventually sent abroad for a few months for training, but most say its a junket and they had a good time. Hard to tell because they are competitive amongst each other.

There are NUS/SMU grads around, but they snuck in either as desk assistants or research assistants and then worked their way up. The few interns that are around usually have some lobang like me. One of the other intern's father is CEO of a firm which is an IB client. Another local intern is really really pretty. If you are not from Ivy, you need a lobang or be really good looking.

College Confidential - View Single Post - Singaporean connection

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10702)

Sorry, but I also wondered your authenticity because you never answered the earlier query on which course you got into at Cambridge because BA in Management Studies is a 1 year competitive entry course with a pre-requisite of 2-3 years of another Cambridge course. The other guy provided a link.

I'm not purposely trying to weed you out or anything, but I'm interested in the BA in Management Studies and was wondering how you got into the competitive entry course without first finishing 3 years in something else? Please let me know.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10707)

not really dtr. shipping and aircraft income only.



partial relief only, up to US$80k. applicable to all countries yes.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10704)

hello. purchasing a 401k would more or less equal out. not to mention if you have kids, paying for their tuition and prep schools(esp prep schools!!) would carve a big hole out of your 'disposable income'.

social security =/= cpf. one is a social insurance scheme incl. unemployment benefits etc and the other is a state pension plan. if you are trying to inform others you should google more and be more thorough.

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10715)

Yes you are right BA MST is a 1 year course. I have offered PPS with a conditional entry into MST providing I meet a certain grade (which I am fairly confident that I will if I work hard). Don't ask me how I got it because I did have to go through quite a bit to get PPS + conditional MST. In fact, I have been supplied this year's handbook, which of course is not available publicly over the internet. The handbook is 13 pages in total. If you like I can upload a few pages at your request. But then again, I don't need to justify anything over the net.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10708)

food for thought:

As far as recruitment, they have a global graduate recruitment program (the chaps are called "graduates") which is run from New York and London. The program also handles the summer interns. NUS & SMU are not in the list of institutions that they recruit from. Apprently they tried it a few years ago with poor results. Not to say that there are not a fair number of Singaporeans graduates around, but they went to top schools, not NUS/SMU. In Singapore, only Insead is on the list and they actually recruit on the Insead campus a few times a year. There are more finance MBAs, but there are all sorts so its probably not correct to say that you need finance. In the Graduate program, the only difference between MBAs and Undergrads is base pay. They do the same work. Some of the graduates from Ivies studied history, English etc, but they are really smart. The graduates are eventually sent abroad for a few months for training, but most say its a junket and they had a good time. Hard to tell because they are competitive amongst each other.

There are NUS/SMU grads around, but they snuck in either as desk assistants or research assistants and then worked their way up. The few interns that are around usually have some lobang like me. One of the other intern's father is CEO of a firm which is an IB client. Another local intern is really really pretty. If you are not from Ivy, you need a lobang or be really good looking.

College Confidential - View Single Post - Singaporean connection

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10729)

Also, I have heard that it is possible to get a bachelors with management in 3 years rather than the 4 as suggested by the poster above. I know people who people from very different backgrounds who graduated with the degree you mentioned. I am even more surprised that medical students can infact take that course and graduate with a bachelors in management in 3 years (though not in medicine)!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10730)

well someone very dear to me applied for a summer internship to 3 BBs. Got accepted at 2 of the banks and picked one (obvsly).

He was offered an analyst position at the end of his internship.

FWIW, he's from SMU. The only "lobang" he had was that his prof passed on his resume directly to HR for one of the banks. I doubt that can be considered a lobang by any means.

Originally Posted by ipodderz (Post 10665)

I deferred my michaelmas 2010 entry for 2011 due to personal reasons. As you can see, I only included tuition fee as a comparison without living costs as those can be quite different depending on whether you are living in the states vs UK.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10734)

what department? front office?