Cornell vs Cambridge vs SMU
 

Hi all,

I have undergrad admission to the 3 universities above. I am deciding which one to choose.

Cornell - 4 years BA Economics (tuition fee S$ 205k)
Cambridge - 3 years - BA Management Studies (tuition fee S$85k)
SMU - 4 years - BS Economics (tuition fee - can tahan)

I come from a family that is not so rich, my father is GM at some large company but he said that he can support me to study. But i really dont want to strain my family finances if I can get a similar education locally. I saw the news that SMU grads earn quite a lot. So I am thinking between SMU and Cambridge. Cornell is quite out of the question, but then again is ivy league amd supposedly one of best universities in the world.

Also at cambridge, its only management studies, which i heard from other people can be quite useless compared to economics. I also prefer to study economics as it is my fav subject. Doing it at SMU will be much cheaper and i heard the job prospects quite good..

Please advise.

GM at some large company - that's probably quite rich.

My advice: Go Cambridge. The name is very good and 85k sounds pretty affordable. Cornell is good too, but too expensive. If you feel bad, promise your dad you will repay him within 5 years after graduation. You can also work part-time to help out.

After Cambridge, it will be good if you can work in London for a while before going to a good b-school for MBA. At that time you should be able to pay for the fees yourself.

well... SMU is probably 1/3 of the cambridge fees, but go cambridge. Great chance to go to a top 5 uni in the world :)

With all due respect, the unis I'd consider to be on par with oxbridge are HYPWS and maybe LSE. Cornell is out of the question.

Although yes the course sucks. I'd def choose between cornell & cambridge instead of smu if you're looking for work beyond local prospects in the future.

Thanks. But what uni is HYPWS?

Why is cornell out of question? If I am not wrong it is considered an ivy league university, which employers quite respect?

The reason why I have SMU in my list is because it is quite likely that I will be working in Singapore or asian region after graduation, and i think SMU reputation is quite good here considering most grads can secure good jobs.

Ok thanks, but I don't think i will need to think that far yet! Havent even got bachelors yet haha.

harvard, yale, princeton, wharton(upenn), stanford

go for the best your family can comfortably afford. so out of this list, probably cambridge? how about considering a scholarship from singapore, or looking into colleague grants/scholarships with no bonds to help with expenses as well?

having gone through school in europe and university in singapore, i would say the latter did very little for me. the overall academic and learning environment is not ideal.

i was accepted into a couple of top UK universities but my parents were far from being to afford it at the time (asian financial, dot com crises) and i am not a scholarship type (the bond alone makes me feel sick)

education should not just be about getting a good job in the future; it's the whole experience of living and learning--and learning to THINK most of all--which in turn could get you a great job

of course if you just want a good/stable job, i guess NTU accountancy type of local courses are okay too

You shld seriously consider obtaining placement data for Cam grads that majored in Management Studies

That should give you an idea of whether your ROI is worth it

Also, I'm quite surprised you didn't apply to study Econs at Cam. Any reason for that?

Cambridge will definitely open more doors for you than an SMU degree.
Management studies vs econs is the least of your concerns.
It is not what you know, but who you know.

Even literature and history graduates from top schools like Cambridge can go on to become top bankers and management consultants. (just using lit and hist as examples).

I would go Cambridge and try to transfer to a higher profile degree programme like Econs. Even if I fail to transfer, a Cambridge degree still has a lot of tangible and intangible benefits. Remember that 2 of our past and present Prime Ministers are from Cambridge.

Cornell is reputable but too expensive. SMU is just a local university in a little red dot. The world is your oyster.

Do undergrad in SMU and go to MS in US or UK . U can work parttime to support ur studies. That way u wont have student loans to pay. For me, I dont attach too much value to a paid foreign degree. If u r in the top in ur own country, foreign univs will take u for MS or so.

Good luck

i beg to differ; we all know it's much more difficult to get into a bachelors program at a top university vs a masters program simply due to competition

AND a degree from oxbridge and HYPWS are not just any 'paid foreign degree'

i'd say take a loan from your parents and pay them after graduation. do not study in singapore--unless it'll really put your family in major financial difficulties

Somebody said in another thread along the lines of a Bach in an oxbridge/ivy institute is fought over and only the best get in but the institutes themselves have to beg for post-grad students.

I agree. Its definitely more prestigious to do a Bach at a prestigious institute vs doing postgrad. Its not tough to get into top institutes for postgrad esp in less prominent courses.

I thought you can only apply into cambridge management studies after 2 or 3 years in another course?

Undergraduate Admissions: Cambridge Admissions Office - Management Studies

Is Cambridge really a good school for business? With the weakening of western economies, you might want more of an asian approach.

I would like you to note that the rich kids from China are probably going to be sent to Singapore rather than Cambridge now. It may be a good idea to build contacts/networks with your future business partners now than drinking buddies in Cambridge.

Financially, it will not be a burden to your parents. Also, you won't have to pay for your study loans for the first 5 years of work. Can you imagine being loan-free the moment you start working? It will give you the privilege of choice between jobs as some jobs may not be enjoyable but you'll have to stick to them due to loan constraints.

You'll get to keep meeting your friends and family often. While you may to meet more foreign friends, somehow I believe that your closest friends won't be non-Singaporean.

Ultimately, the decision is yours and you have to be responsible for your choice.

Always consider the course first before the school. An SMU law graduate will in all likelihood beat a Cambridge history graduate hands down in lifetime earnings.

We always like to hear of fairy tale success stories but they are the exceptions rather than the norm.

No doubt "Even literature and history graduates from top schools like Cambridge can go on to become top bankers and management consultants" but the fact remains that most literarture and history graduates from top schools like Cambridge end up as school teachers.

Of course if it is between an SMU law degree and a Cambridge law degree, then the choice is obvious.

the most misinformed post i've seen in this thread. Career opps for graduates from top-tier schools have never been limited by their field(s) of study.

You should choose SMU over Cornell/Cambridge only if you value a job that is strictly based in Sg.

Sorry but this is also rubbish. Numerous schools in the US and UK simply outrank NUS/NTU/SMU. I dont give a s*** about THES/QS and whatever nonsense. Social capital is the single most important factor in the society today and a simple comparison of the alumni from the respective schools will shed light on how deluded some Singaporeans are about the prestige of the local schools.

In fact, some of my friends from the States have never heard about NUS before, much less NTU and the lesser known SMU.

If you intend to settle down/work/live in Sg go ahead and matriculate into SMU. It wont guarantee higher earnings but certainly a sense of belonging and subscription to herd mentality. Otherwise, Cambridge/Cornell is your best choice.

Take this time to see the world kid.

agree. a number of my friends who have graduated from top-tier foreign universities studied history, literature, science, art teachers, PPE, etc. sure some of them are schoolteachers because they are BONDED to MOE (thus do not take a bond if you do not want to teach). if they're in other professions which are do not pay top dollar like finance, it's because they are bonded (ditto what's in the brackets above) or CHOOSE to do so and can AFFORD to do so as their families well do not need their contributions. yes, not everything is about money--of course, this is a SALARY forum and many who come here do see money as a priority, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's not generalize, it doesn't apply to everyone

of course, money is important and indeed i also do know of a number of top tier university graduates--who studied literature, history, art history, PPE, along those lines--who are in the financial sector

also true--and i'm a NTU & NUS grad because my parents could not afford to send me to universities overseas (i got the offers)

although some local grads do make good eventually, the degrees are never comparable to one from a top tier foreign university. this is reality--although if you're good enough, eventually do can go onto the same playing field; again, this applies to a small portion of local vs top foreign grads

also like i said before, the local schools do not provide a good learning environment that fosters thinking and discussion. i don't care what anyone else and the authorities may say, i know this as i've studied overseas and universities here are nothing close--they are trying very hard, but it's not there yet. so if you have a chance--and can afford--to study overseas, do that

How many of you advising here went to a top school. Or are you one who thinks "had i gone to a top school, my life would have been much better".

Getting admission to a good school abroad does show good grades and potential, but it hardly shows amazing merit. There are many who mite have got scholarships either locally or abroad. That shows merit in my view.

There was this post on this forum from an IVY League guy who was struggling to find a job. Well, Cambridge is good but what if you graduate at a time when Economy is bad ?? Who would care for a foreign undergrad student.

Unless u have statistics to prove that with 90% chance, a cambridge degree (that too undergrad) will ensure a better career and finances , dont just justify this decision based on Ranking n Reputation.

If he does well in SMU , he mite get a scholarship for higher studies. That in my opinion proves ones talent more.

The western univs have two kinds of talents. One are those who actually are given scholarships and the others who can pay. And I can tell that a scholarship at a 10th rank univ in UK mite have more worth than paying for ur degree at Cambridge.

Undergrad degrees are not all that great. There will be many u will compete against and if economy is down, u will be forced to return to SG and earn less after a huge investment.
And Management and Econ are generic degrees.

U can do undergrad at SMU. And keep that 85k for grad degree or MBA after 4-5 years. It will ensure a grad degree from abroad and with job ex , u may be able to work abroad. People here are overstating the importance of Undergrad. U will need luck, good economy and chances to land a good deal.

If u are good, u can go to a good Grad Program later with this money. U are lucky that ur dad has this money. Use it wisely.

i was the one whose parents could afford so i went to local universities. let me state upfront that i am quite happy with where i am in life and in my career even though i went to local universities. would my life be better if i went to foreign universities? maybe. but i do not regret not accepting those offers from top foreign universities because it would be too much for my parents back then, and i also have no regrets about not considering a scholarship back then because i do not like to be tied down this way.

bottomline in my opinion is this:
if your family can afford it fairly comfortably and you can pay them back in time without causing financial constraints to your parents, go for it. it is not all about how your degree will help you get a fabulous job in the future, it's about how an education will help you in your personal development. education should shape you as an individual, not turn you into another cog in the economy. sure this may be idealistic, but if your family is well-to-do (i'm not talking about filthy rich, but comfortably well-to-do and can afford it, as it sounds like from the person who asked this question), why not?

This is HILARIOUS. No prestigious employer (i-banks, consulting, etc) cares more about masters degrees than bachelor degrees, except for MBAs. From the way you type, you probably belong to one of those ahpeks/heartlanders who think that the higher the qualification the better, the more impressive sounding the better (Ph.D > Masters > Bachelors). In the real world, masters' degrees don't add value. Employers continue to look at both your bachelor's and master's degrees when they evaluate you for a job. If they see you went to a no-name school like SMU + some non-selective, cash-cow-for-the-university kind of Masters, they'll think: desperate resume padder who couldn't get into the ivy league/oxbridge on first try. Do you want to inflict that fate on the OP?

Fool. So you're going around telling every local undergrad that they seem to have merit because they "MIGHT have gotten scholarships". Everybody who applies to scholarships falls under this category, but most are laughably unqualified.
One thread out of hundreds of local farmers who have it worse because they stayed in Singapore. Get some common sense.
Sure. There're investment banks whose Singapore offices have a policy of not hiring local grads because they proved disappointingly bad. Many finance/consulting offices who do interview local grads are still dominated by foreign grads from the likes of Oxbridge and Ivy League, even though there're far more local applicants. Do YOU have the stats to prove that local degree can get you anywhere as far as a foreign degree? Dream on.
Who the hell will give you a scholarship for masters?

Irrelevant. This does not change the fact that either option would be better than staying at a local uni. You can't even form an argument without going off-track. You must be a local grad.

I agree with you, largely. Save for two points.

Scholarships are quite frequently handed out for masters esp if you have a 1.1 degree.

Also, come on, thats a low blow, local grads cant form arguments without going off track? As much as I disagree with him overrating scholarship holders and overrating a local degree as compared to the ivys of the world. You completely underestimate local graduates.

acts ipporte
 

ok, i believe that being the best in your own country does make u a global talent. i am not a local. but i did study at the best univ in my own country. and that gave me access and opportunities world wide.

now i dont know if NUS has the same reputation as Tokyo or IIT or Tsingua or not. but if u r the best in ur country, u can become a global talent. for that, u dont need to shell out 85k. i bet if he tops in SMU, he will achieve good results in life. a topper from SMU mite be better than a average from Camdridge.

again talking abt all these Consultancy and IB makes sense, but how many of these Cambridge fellows make it. the truth is there is no guarantee. if u tell me that Cambridge guarantees sure shot success, i would say go for it. but it does not. u heard a guy mention people from top schools are earning less, and the excuses are bond, priorities, passion. ********, they cant make it so they talk abt all this. bcus Cambridge with Dad's money does not make u Warren Buffett.


for one cambridge fellow who sucks, u can find a SMU grad doing well and vice versa. thats why i suggested that 85k is not worth a gamble just for a UK univ. bcus a cambridge degree does not ensure IB, Consultancy, etc.

this is rubbish. fact is, if you're a school teacher (or similar equivalents), even a very good one getting grade A at appraisals, you will not make as much as a banker, but you will be comfortable. i'm not saying my friends are paupers; they're earning less than top dollars but at a comfortable level. and they can't make it? some of them left after their bonds/a few broke bonds and are either working in much more lucrative fields, some prefer to do other things. so most people go only for dollars and cents, but some people don't, some can afford not to; the world is not homogeneous, neither is it fair

nothing is guaranteed in life, but if you can afford it, why not go for a better university experience that will give you higher chances of getting a foot in the door? and honestly, $85k is not that all that much for a fairly well-off family in singapore

the hell? not smoking, not drinking, and eating healthy does not ensure that you won't die prematurely, but it'll help make it happen. i'm sure the next thing you'll say is let's go crazy and binge because nothing you do can guarantee 100% success!

absolute rubbish, the reasoning of a handicapped mind.

rshboo choose
 

ok , spend 85k from ur pocket to be a teacher. and then talk abt job satisfaction n blah blah.

i guess in Singapore, if a Cambridge guy farts, its as good as Dolce n Gabbana :)

no, but a Cambridge guy's fart smells infinitely better than when illiterates like you open your mouth

85k is just one-tenth of some peanuts after factoring inflation.

So did any of u actually attend Cambridge or is it just that u are in awe of top schools ??

I attended an even better university. What are your qualifications then, loser, for talking out of your ass about a world of high finance and consulting and power and salaries that you'll never experience in your wildest dreams?

Very true.

ok got it, anyone who attends Cambridge gets into finance and consulting and earns BIG. then the OP must go to Cambridge, and see it for himself.

what kind of an uncomprehending idiot are you? everyone here has tried to explain to you, terms that even a retard can understand, that there's no guarantee, but anyone who goes to Cambridge sure has a far greater chance of getting their foot in the door than poor quality local grads like yourself. it's obvious that people like you are the best arguments for OP to go to Cambridge.

First of all, I doubt what your admission claims because Cornell doesn't release its 2011 decision until this Thursday (March 30th) and doesn't early write for international students. Second, if you are bright enough to get into Cornell, you would know that it costs $297K for 4 years (incl housing) unless you want to pitch a tent and sleep in it for 4 years.

If you are smart enough to get into Cornell, your A-Level results would be AAA/A with a UAS close to 90 and SAT of 2200+, so you would be an idiot to apply to SMU Econs when you could get into law. SMU doesn't release its decision for another month anyway.

So I presume that you are a student who is dreaming of getting into Cornell and possibly Cambridge. If your results are that good and your family can't afford it, why not try for a scholarship? If you don't want to be bonded, Cornell offers financial aid for families earning < USD200,000 pa.

Otherwise, I would say, just go to Cambridge. LSE is probably the place to be if you want Economics in the UK, while U of Chicago is about the same level as Cornell and has a better economics department.

If you are going into NS, you have 3 years to apply until you get into the school of your choice.