Getting MBA worth?
 

Hi

I thinking of getting a MBA and hopefully do a mid-life career switch. I'm (guy) currently 30, earnings of 5k a month.

I'm currently doing IT Projects Management, and i want to go into more business management role. However since i do not have any prior experience, i conclude that i would have to go for a school with better career services.

I'm currently considering Insead and SMU. I know the cost is vastly different, however SMU offer internship during their MBA program. which will definitely prepare me.

Insead on the other hand, (i heard) have excellent career services.

Oh another point, i'm looking to do the MBA full time, so preferably due to financial constraints, i'm looking at 1 year MBAs.

However i'm still weighing on it as
1) It does not guarantee me a business management position,
2) worse, because of my non-existence experience, i will not be considered for a business role.

I would like to ask, whether how possible is it for an IT grad, taking MBA and switching over to a more business like portfolio (example Business strategic planning etc) .

Any other MBA program to recommend?

Thanks

Choose Insead!! You won't go wrong with the school's excellent branding anywhere in the world .... If you choose the cheaper but more "ulu" SMU, no different from burning your money and dumping it into the ocean...

Honestly, I am not sure if an MBA is worth it. Sorry but I am speaking from my personal experience.

I got my MBA from a local uni 4 years ago. My pay has since doubled. However, my pay doubled not because I got an MBA (my company is not interested if you got an MBA) but more from my job performance.

Maybe somewhere out there, there will be someone/some company that might appreciate my MBA. So far, I have yet to find it.

did your MBA help you to improve your performance?

many people say schooling is useless, but maybe the training you received help to re-wire certain parts of your brain and that helps in becoming a better working professional?

Doubling pay in 4 years in the same company... what's your secret?

Possessing a MBA definitely changes the management's outlook on an employee.. It's a fact that in Singapore, that more highly educated you are, the more well regarded you will be by Singapore employers... It will put you at some advantage when they are look to raise up a leader for management role...

taking a MBA for a career switch is rather difficult. and the brandname of SMU is not as good as overseas big uni.

I suggest a few things you can do;
-explore within your company if you can take on projects or opportunity to move to the area you want to
-start looking and talking to headhunters/recruiters about what you want to do and get some advice. Dont just rely on 1 headhunter, get a few and get different perspective
-is there a role model or someone you aspire to be? If so, have a chat with that person and ask for advice on how to get where he got to

You will be surprised that many are very happy to talk about themselves and give advice if you go with sincerity and humility.

It is a big decision to undertake MBA as it costs money and also opportunity costs. One word of advice is before you do any course, check out RECRUIT on ST, or websites to see if there are any jobs you can take and what are the requirements to get a sense of reality. Otherwise, you are just wasting money, getting frustrated and in the end back to square one.

Good luck bro

$1000 become $2000?

Thanks for all the advice. Bro i do understand where you are coming from. Most of us have somewhere we would want to end up in life. For myself, i know that i can do better than what i'm currently handling.

However it's sometime frustrating that no one would offer you a chance. I thought of giving up, just continue on my course of work. But i would be letting myself down. I'm not a scholar, but i believe i can perform as well as some of them.

Therefore i decided to give myself one more chance with the MBA. Hopefully, i can then earn myself that opportunity that i have always wanted...

I know that MBA might not be the solution, but it's one of the better options for me now...

Thanks to all the Bros..

I totally understand how you feel and where you are coming from; I was at a similar cross-road 10years ago.

I think all the previous posts raised very pertinent issues. Just a few more thoughts:

1) Outside of financial institutions (IB, S&T) and consulting firms, it's generally the MNCs and the big local companies (even then, less so) who will compensate you for the MBA.

2) Therefore, have you considered doing your MBA outside of Singapore - where the market for such talent is broader and to be near the MNCs/ companies who will value your MBA. Also, they will recruit you to come back to Asia (if that is where you want to work)

3) However, given the current economic climate, getting a job in US/Europe/HK might be challenging. So you might want to consider delaying your MBA for 1/2 years

4) I will urged you to think of this as a "5-yr project". Beyond the 1/2 years that you will spend geting your degree, the remaining 3/4 years are when you "reap" the benefits and/or get the jump from getting the MBA. From speaking with people who had gone through this route, you will find the biggest delta you will get is the first few years. After which, its again down to how you perform. This is not to say performance/working hard is not important in the first few years, but just that that's when the degree is most useful in helping you open doors etc

5) As you are thinking of doing a mid-career switch, doing an MBA will be trememdously helpful as it acts as a "re-set button". However, be prepared for many rejections and have a good story to tell.

6) Network, network, network. Jobs rarely come to you. But you will be surprised what is out there/who is hiring once you start talking to people.

7) When the chips are down and things are rough, always remember - you only need one person to see your talent, one person who believes in you, and one person who will give you an opportunity.....ONE job (though it will be nice to be armed with nth number of offers). So do not be despair (and I assure you there will be many moments during this journey when you will question why you went down this path@!)

Lastly. Be clear headed. Be very sure why you are doing this and what you want to get out of this. Have a plan, do not look back, and GO. good luck.

Thanks Bro, really appreciated.

Actually that's roughly my plan too. i'm looking at doing my MBA during the year 2013. When the economy is not doing well, the best investment you can make it to yourself.

It'll give me sometime to prepare for the financial commitments during my year of study. Thanks for the insight. I guess there will definitely be times whereby i would think to myself whether all these is worth it.

To most of us, including myself, is to lead a better life. Striving for better pay. To me, it's also really to challenge myself to see how far i can go.

Thanks for all the input.

Just another question, really out of curiosity, cause i'm been reading alot in this forum. Does anyone taken the MBA and go into civil service? What are the prospect?

Insead
 

I went to insead. If you can get in, go for it. Reasonable to expect to double your salary or more coming out, but no "guarantee" - like everything else, you have to work hard at making a career switch

MBA is useless, unless you know how to network. If you know how to network, you don't need an MBA. ") Don't waste money.

Who owes you for a living? Double your salary? Joke

I am sure this MBA stage is something which every mid-career professional goes through. You may find this useful.

My opinion is that a MBA helps your "boss" to push you up. What this means is that you must already be of a certain "calibre" or performance, and in putting up your promotion recommendation, your MBA fulfils one of the item on the "checklist", which allows them to discuss other areas such as leadership/management capability etc.

A MBA is definitely something good to have, not a need. However if the money and time spent can alternatively be put t better use in volunteering for a major company project, personal business venture etc, the MBA can wait.

A lot of people are also thinking this way which makes it more competitive to gain entry to your choice business school when the economy is weak. Conversely when the economy is on a bull run, business schools go out to woo prospective students. And even going as far as re-working(shortening) the curriculum to attract students.

I completed my MBA in a local uni and I say it is worth every cent. In addition to gaining a more structure way of tackling problems (which is an attraction to consultancies), the biggest value has been the career services that the uni provides. The kind of industry links and career doors that the uni opens in are sometimes just not assessable to most folks.

I work in an IB and there are two ways to get to associate level. Either join as an analyst with a bachelor's degree, work 3 years to associate. Or, get a MBA and join as an associate.

Here's my take on MBA:
1. Useless to take MBA unless you take it at a reputable institution. SMU/NTU are lousy MBAs. Insead is good.
2. Networking, internship and placements are the key benefits of a MBA.
3. From a monetary standpoint, I would argue that the costs of the MBA outweighs the incremental income you receive out of it. You need to factor in the 1 (or 2) years of lost earnings/lost progress/ maybe lost promotion
4. MBA makes more sense in a booming economy. In a downturn, MBA maybe even be detrimental. Firstly you are out of workforce for 1year. Secondly, employers tend to cut MBA hires in downturn rather than undergrad hires. Thirdly, getting a MBA may make you seem overqualified for the lower entry jobs (even if your value to the firm is not much different vs a fresh grad)

To finish off, I'll sum up with some real life experience:
1. My firm takes in about 15-20 MBA hires across the region each year. Recently, there seems to be an oversupply due to weak conditions in EU and UK. Lots of qualified labor in the market
2. Only take MBAs from reputable schools.
3. Pay: Base US$120k p/a, exclude bonus. This is similar to what non MBAs get paid after 2 years of working.
4. I myself didn't take the MBA path.
5. Doesnt affect future progression in the firm. Whether MBA or not, once you get in you are evaluated on par with the rest - by job performance

you got to look into improving your grammar if you hope to do well in your gmat to gain admission into Insead.

if you want to go into civil service, there is no need to do an MBA. In fact, it might be better to go in now, spend a few years there, do well and get the employer to pay for your EMBA in a good school later.

going to civil service with a good MBA is a waste of your investment. Better for you to do a local program. If you are prepared to spend money to do an international program, you got to cast your net wider and be prepared to work overseas or go for international opportunities. If you don't have the ambition and drive, don''t waste the money.

similar
 

I find your situation to be quite similar to mine. I am a year older than u and I started doing IT - programming and start then moved on into Project Manager. As I was interested to help business grows, my boss shifted me into Business Development and doing Project Management concurrently. Eventually I made a job switch last year and I'm doing Business Strategic Planning and Consulting work in a large MNC now.

MBA can be an avenue but essentially what you are seeking is a career switch. Find your specialisation and see whether is it possible to facilitate a switch - using what you have instead of throwing it all away.

To go into Strategy, you will need to be a good communicator, be meticulous and be able to use many management tools. When I first entered into strategy initially, it was not easy. Many people doing strategy are those in senior management and it requires a different mode of thinking - Systematic Thinking. Many consulting and strategic tools are used and it's essentially it is about using the brain. Thus, you must be able to see the big picture while being grounded at the same time and envision economics, business, operations and a series of business synergies together.

Anyway, I'm also doing a part-time MBA now but I believe it is not MBA that helps me get my job. It is being be able to write good resumes to attract their attention, sell yourself effective during interview and do well during the first few months. Need hard-work.

As we get older, the opportunity cost become higher. It is not worth doing full-time MBA considering the opportunity cost.

http://mba.insead.edu/documents/MBA_...STATISTICS.pdf

Median salary right out of insead if working in singapore : about 150k. This is base salary only.

I don't trust surveys done by the schools themselves. SMU claimed its students are making 4-5k. NTU had one with 20k. Do you believe?

Thanks for the insight. I have been working in MNCs too, however i find opportunities hard to come by.

Maybe i just need to improve my networking skills. :)

It's more of a curiosity question on MBA and the public sector. I'm actually a little sceptical about those pay quoted by the universities.

Eventually, everything will depend on myself.

__________________________________________________ __

Of topic, recently i saw this Masters of IT in Business (Financial Services) offered by SMU. Anyone from here graduated from this course?

Anyone can comment on the career services like provided by SMU?

INSEAD median salary S$150k: Believable since most MBA grads try for jobs at investment banks. A main reason for taking MBAs. Did they mention how many % of their post grad MBAs found jobs and how long did they take to find a job after graduation?

NTU/SMU surveys: The $10k a month is real but only about 1% of grads reach that kind of salary. This is the starting pay for Investment Bankers. (bulge brackets: Citi, Goldman, MS, CS, BOA/ML and a couple of others pay this to fresh graduates in 2011) $20k a month is not normal. Probably that fella applied for a job overseas and included his allowances such as housing etc. SMU claiming students making an average 4-5k: Seems high. Is this median or average? I would think the average for B&F is high $3k for 2011. NTU average is lower because their business school includes accountancy and auditors start at $2.4/2.5k per month.

My background: Local grad in 2007. Working in a bank. Would think my data pts should be pretty accurate.

I believe for insead. 150k base is well in ballpark, or even slightly below, what ibanks or consulting firms pay their newmba hires

Not every MBA grad can get a high paying job. Averaging out, the average pay is probably 75k nia.

Oops
 

I had an uncomfortable and embarrassing experience regarding the value of the MBA that I had recently completed.

I was interviewing a candidate together with my boss and his boss. So, it was the three of us versus one interviewee. This interviewee had also recently completed his MBA. The uncomfortable bit was that he was my course mate and he was now effectively being interviewed to be my subordinate.

What really embarrassed me was that he carried himself very poorly during the interview. And when it came to salary, his words were, "er, around $4,000.... but negotiable." Clearly lacking in confidence and conviction. And at $4,000....? under-selling himself by too much. I was hoping that he would be requesting in the region of $6,000. Then I can go to my bosses to say, "See, the market rate for MBAs (without experience) are in that range. We need to review my package."

Needless to say, he didn't get the job and my boss and I never discussed the value of my MBA ever again.

Is it a local MBA?

would you believe it if he answers Booth, Sloan or Wharton... of course it's SIM or NBS lah!

views from a MBA career switcher
 

Here's my 2c worth...

Firstly, a MBA is:
- NOT an automatic ticket to a $150k job (salaries are self reported hence subject to selection bias)
- NOT recommended for folks not looking to switch industry & looking for a mid career break - too expensive and too much post mba job uncertainty
- NOT recommended if u don't get into a brand name uni - mid tier universities do nothing for ur job prospects
- NOT about knowledge about course material - its effectively a 2yr job search & its all about the strength of tge career office contacts (the valedictorian for my course couldn't find a job for 6 months )
- NO guarantee of a job - i know of a few insead graduates who were on long term internships for 6mths to a year after graduation because they couldn't find a job

I think an mba is worth it if u r keen to switch job and u land a slot in a top uni with good connections in the area u r keen on. And even then it's a crap shoot.

Reality is : the biggest key to finding a good job is graduating at the right time, something u hv no control of whatsoever. If u graduated in 2006 or 2007, u would hv 3 offers upon graduation on average . If u graduated in 2008, u r lucky if u saw one offer. If u are unlucky, u see the offer u signed earlier rescinded .

Then there's the job search process. If u r looking to switch into a glamour role like front office banking or consulting , get ready for the most demoralizing and unpleasant process of your life. And it lasts for 2yrs.

The first thing my career office told me when i said i was looking for a ibanking role was that my chances are between slim and none. The second thing they told me was to use any and every connection i had to beg and grovel for an internship in a bank. Then they asked me to cold email all the alumni in all the banks, to ask to meet for coffee so that they can tell me if there r any internship positions available.

... so if after reading the above, u r still keen, then please go ahead .

At least u r going in w your eyes open .

I was from a brand name uni as well, so believe me, the job search process is going to be similarly grueling wherever u go. Be prepared for that if u r looking to change industry pursuant to ur mba.

I am from a local uni MBA. Took it part time (3 years to complete).

Pre MBA - S$8k
Post MBA - S$12k
Now, 3 years post MBA - S$17k

I did not change my job throughout the 6 years. I just have a good boss and MBA does help me frame my thoughts in handling issues at work.

Overall, it is a good investment as long as you can make the most out of it.

The key Qn for prospective mba students is how much of the pay rise above is directly due to the mba, & how much of this is due to normal career progression (ie 1 or 2 promotions in 6y) + normal pay increase (ie finance professionals in many had foreign banks saw a significant increase in base pay as political pressure on bonuses ratcheted up in 2009 - 10).

Reality is that most employers in singapore do not pay meaningfully extra if their existing employees get an mba. Indeed for many companies, unless they r sponsoring u 4 an emba, do not view an employee doing a 3 yr part time MBA (and leaving office early many a day) in a positive light.

I agree. you raised an important point.
1) most people would prefer the 'safe' option of doing a local or part time MBA and hoping for recognition and huge promotion. Frankly the probability of that happening is remote. Most of the time that person is already a star performer and the MBA is an icing on the cake.
2) For those who are stuck or frustrated with current progression, taking this 'safe' option is ironically more risky because you become more frustrated. You complete an MBA which your current employer doesn't value and you end up leaving the company only to be viewed by prospective employer who sees this guy or gal wanting a higher pay just because of an MBA.
3) despite the risks, it makes sense to start afresh, do a full time program and switch industry. take it like a one to two year job search like what most of the previous contributors have mentioned.

Mba
 

MBAs are good if u want to challenge yourself, learn more and network.
If the primary objective is to secure a promotion or higher pay, then there might be disappointment. MBA holders are very common now. What is more critical is your drive/attitude/aptitude and not forgetting your political skills in an MNC (very sad, but true). If your degree is in business/acct and you still do a local MBA, it might be a serious waste of time as well.

I completed an MSc in Economics just to challenge myself. It did nothing to my career, but I made some good friends along the way. Completed it part time at local U, but it did sent a signal to my boss/es that I had the drive + can handle both work and studies well. It was a tough 2 years.

i challenged myself to start a business on the side. it's more rewarding this way. just a different perspective.

Acquiring a mba does not automatically increase your pay if your job-scope does not expand, or your job responsibilities do not increase. I got a masters in financial engineering in local uni, the hard skills acquired in the course gave me a opportunity to go quantitative role, and now in a regional head role in risk in foreign bank.

4k - Pre-Masters
6k - Upon graduation
20k - 6 years post-Masters

Initial investments of $15k (tuition fees at that time) + 2 years of diligent study = future higher cashflows in career is certainly worth it

But don't you think financial engineering is a little crowded now? The FTs also prefer to hire non-locals, if you know what I mean.

Did all your classmates do as well as you? Or are you the outlier?

Good for you but yours is very likely a far outlier case. Usually if u don't start out right post masters, it's very very difficult to right the career ship (which is why there is so much pressure to land the right role post masters).

Looking at the numbers, u were prob an avp post graduation, prob recently promoted to avp as its the low end of spectrum. At $20k, thats a well paid VP at a foreign bank (if $20k is base) or a low bonus VP (if it's all in comp). So effectively u had to get promoted at least 1x and move to a foreign bank, at the most difficult time in the financial markets in decades.

Possible but not an optimal example for prospective MBA students. Optimal decisions are not made on outlier data points.

Probably some self advertisement from an MFE school.

Nice share.

I'm currently 25 yo, hav 1.5 years of experience in engineering. I'm tragetting MBA of overseas branded uni for a career switch. Can I know more about:
Other than Stanford Harvard Wharton etc, how can I judge if it is a top-tier uni, and how does the market value the MBA of that uni? Is it enough to judge by the global MBA ranking? What are the factors I can look into?