15k but KPI need to bring in profit like xxx

Yah 15k but only in your father's company

15k alot meh?
That's just 3 fresh grad comp science 5k in combined into 1 single person.

Pls M3 KPI if can single handedly bring in and secure project that worth millions.
That creates job and opportunity for more than just 3 fresh grads.

So as M3 yes 15k is too little since fresh grad now starting pay so high.

Eh you don't know that division now become a legal company entity.
So the VP is the father
So you M3 AVP under the father.
So it's your father's company what.

You don't know meh?
Bottom engineers low pay la cause so many engineers.
M3 only 1 or 2 in each of your father's company

People in ST. Inflated Title, Inflated Pay, Inflated Ego. Jokes.

any bonus in march?

So m3 is AVP ah

AVP is m4. Before reorg it was called Senior Manager. ST has a lot of titles, AVP, SVP, VP, EVP DVP for middle management level.

AVP is M4?
cannot be le, my new boss was principal engineer M2 now he is promoted to AVP should be M3 what.

zdon't tell me he promoted 2 levels one shot??

Sounds like even ppl who work inside dont event knoe the system well

your IQ is so low that there's no reason for me to explain to u further

Yes it's very political and confusing.
Here is my account of the change in title.

Previously M4 Senior manager now is director (promotion or no? Same?)
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now also called director? Promotion or no?
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now called VP. Promotion? Two level?
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now called AVP? No promotion? Same?
Previously M2 principal engineer change to senior manager for 2 months. Now called AVP. So which is which? M3? M4?

The title can change anytime. Anyhow.
My boss told me his title keep changing but his pay grade and pay remained the same.
My other boss say some got change title. Some is change title and also pay grade and pay cause now they holding dual post. Etc.

Some is called job rotation. Last time is head of this division. Now head of another different division.
Its gray area at the top. All politics one. Who like who. Get promoted. Who don't like who. Get surpressed.

The bottom engineers will and always remain
E5
E6
M1
M2

Very rare seen any new age engineers go above this rank. Unless you been here 20 years plus during the start the. Your rank probably jumped to M3 or jump two ranks.

Make us wonder. And yet all of us below. Just observe see those newly promoted etc.

Always not in office. Always going meeting. Dsta la. Meeting meeting. Business meeting.
Yet no new project come in.
And their position keep getting higher. Promoted for what.
Engineers are pretty much slaves here.

It's so political that the bosses themselves also don't tell ppl they promoted or etc. All hide... Want to get higher pay but do less. Really no respect for the leaders here.

It's no surprise la. Maybe for those new are shocked of the sudden reorg.
But news already know few months prior.

And internally people already know this like 1 or 2 years ago.
They have made informal preparation. Already appoint people for the new potion etc. Get them ready etc.
Just that officially their title haven't change.

So previously if you see your M2 now suddenly become AVP is that M2 was already doing AVP work for 1@or 2 years but never got the promotion. Now officially he only got the title change.

Call it a probation. The top here like to try people out for sizes one.
You go observe la you see which M2 in your division started to be in Cc list or starting to shadow or cover the head. You'll know he is up for promotion next...

But that promotion takes 2 to 3 years in the making... That's why only those 20 heads etc get promoted.
This new generation now expects come out fresh high pay. Work 1 year expect to be promoted to senior engineer. Then work 2 years expect to be M1 assistant principal engineer. Then work 3 years expect to be principal engineer M2.

But you all never know your M2 work the same title for the like past 5 years now only finally become AVP.
And you all not happy...

Kids nowadays.

Cool story, actually to be fair, even though current promotion aren't as straightforward as in the past, but as long as you have the skill, is able to show initiative and perform well, promotion wont be an issue even at E levels... its just that many just want to relax and be status quo... if you just want to relax... promotion is relatively out of reach..

Dont get cheated by their job title.
Employment grade and job title are not the same...
From what i know - employment grade is like:
M2 - principal engineer
M3 - snr principal engineer
But still, you can have fanciful titles such as AVP, head of department etc...

Sure... And those M2 who worked so hard for 5 years promoted to AVP feel they deserve to be in retirement mode.

Ywah sure. E5 PROJECT ENGINEER WORK SO HARD FOR 5 YEARS TO DELIVER TJR PROJECT DONT EBEN GET TO BE PROMOTED TO SENIOR ENGINEER.

While the title holder principal engineer who just meeting and meeting failed project with no real deliverables to quantify the kpi gets promoted over the toil and hardwork of the newly fresh engineers.

This is why this company lack the engineering talent.
When all roads lead to management nobody wants to do engineering work.

Yet the management meet their kpi from the engineering work.
Whoever invented such structure...

So the lesson is. Don't study so hard be engineer OK.
Just be manager and come play politics at work then play long enough get promoted.

Haha I have a newly promoted M1 small fry colleague, his email title is operations manager. Lol.
And my division manager M4 director... His email also operations manager.

Hahahaha.
Those high paid grade want to deflate their own title
Those low grade want to inflate their own title for self worth.

Ahahahahahah

I also have E6 senior engineer who called themselves system architect.
While at the same time M4 senior principal engineer now AVP... Call himself system architect.

Title in this company come from being here long enough.
Not from actual skills. Then if you challenge their authority, you're next to go. Blacklisted.
So you must suck up to them. Do all the design work etc. Hand it over to the M4 system architect so he can take credit for all your work and watch him get promoted to AvP.

Don't come here everyday and complain la engineers.
All you hardworking engineers, please go and research or study or self improve.


Read engineering course.
Get certified. Etc.
Test your system.
Document your design. Etc.
Plan your mockup OK.

Leave the politics to us senior management okay.
Otherwise we have nothing to do in office other than chit chat and breakfast coffee

OK boss. We become better engineer.
You all also go take course on how to be a better manager okay.

Does the management realise that all the politics are mostly started by them?

I agree with you on the part engineers are stuck 5 years and no promotion. Every year or few months there's announcement on the movement of management, either taking on more portfolios or promoted to higher appointments. Down at the engineers part, most changes are limited to those who are already in leadership position, like lead or manager appointments.

For the rest of the engineers, they are just dumped most of the stuff that M-graded engineers refused to do. They insisted that their things are more important and when the E-grade engineers are unable to complete their work, the management will just say KPI failed. Even admins can pull their weight on engineers. Unfortunate but true.

They call it survival skills but really. I have a boss who everything he will push back and never commit anything black and white. Cause he said he learn from the politics here.

Fhen when he left a new boss took over, he don't know how to play the politics. Everything promise okay. Yes sir man. End up we help other division to meet their kpi. We don't get the pie that was promised to us cause ebehtnjnf wasn't black and white. Favor here and there.

Our engineers end up overtime because our boss yes man can't say no. We don't get bonus. The team lost slot of people. People wonder why we doing the work of other division. And don't get paid for it...

So we learn now if other division need our help we will promise to help informally just for show but nothing black and white won't commit to anything. Also when black and white comes we will. Charge very high so we can take the profit and also to dissuade from doing the work. So it's a win win situation.

It's not we don't want to help. It cost xxx. So much ah? Yes. Maybe can find other division who have the capability to do this component for you....

Let us know soon so we can start work ASAP. Most of the time nothing will get done. This is the ST World... Alot of time go hire liao. Project don't come in. Our engineers do nothing. Can't eat. Can't survive. Or deliver liao. No profit. The other boss kpi met but ours doesn't. So we also don't do lo.

It's like that one. Anyway the reorg structure prompts competition instead of cooperation. That's why nobody want to work together. Too many commander in chief.
This is the result of too many old folks refuse to leave and want the power.

At least your team learnt. I know of some division bosses who went "I don't care, you just do it".

Then we also don't care.
Can't deliver those head on the top should get chop first.

what the new rank after reorganization ?

Since when in ST the head on top get chop? its always the bottom engineers that get bad grades and get chop regardless project delivered or not. tons of excuses for promotion and good grades, e.g, submitted but big boss don't approve, never deliver enough, never put in enough effort, can't fit into the "bell curve", not enough exposure etc.

Promotion and good bonuses are always made available for Management regardless deliverables.

what is external office politics by dsta? can anyone give some examples?

bytedance fresh grad 15k, even govtech is 9k....

Govtdch freshgrad 9k???

Yo how is everyone in ST? 😄

Hi, what is st mean?

Should be good la

anyone know a china guy called Charl** in ST

Heard before

You dont say bro

think so. why leh?

Hmm heardnhe is a nice guy leh

lmao nice guy......

err why leh

Dear Colleagues,

I would like to thank each and every one of you for your hard work and support.

This forum has provided much feedback on many matters in ST Electronics that are close to your hearts.

It is through these feedback that I have learnt a lot from many of you.

I hope the team will continue to strive for excellence, and I will look into your concerns and feedback as mentioned on this forum.

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Warmest Regards

wooo..are you a staff from ST? :rolleyes: hr? top management/president or ceo? if not, there is nothing you can change :D