what do you mean by this? so if a big3U enters as an A1, what does an SIM enter as?

SIM enter at another scheme that is considered non-associate. IIRC on average need to work ~3 years then can promote to A1, i.e. first year associate.

If eloquence isn't essential, which qualities, in your humble opinion, is?

TS is from SIM.
They may be hiring from local uni for the moment only.
had friends in pte uni. (FCH + ACCA). deloitte still didnt get back to him

I am not the original poster, but been doing sales for 8 years I agree eloquence is way overrated esp for those who never do sales before - they think sales is just sweet talk non-stop.

For sure you must be comfortable with interacting with all sorts of people, but beyond that being eloquent doesn't help much. Empathy, understanding decision making / power structure in your client organization, understanding industry & how your products are position, being able to negotiate professionally, being able to navigate your own co politic to get things done in your favor is much more important.

Most people who only know how to eloquent talk will forever be stuck at doing mass market sales selling cheap & low margin products to general market. For e.g. in banking if you just remain stuck at this sort of level selling retail and SME products, there is a limit to how much you can make even if you are the top performer and if you are just average, the package might even end up much worse than working in a normal office job.

just to put it out here before any sim starts thinking that their fellow kind made it to big4 so yaya..

1. most acct grads (i mean local and proper uni only) these days only consider the big4 if they cant get a banking MAP/MA role
2. the big4 has always brought in sim folks - however, they come in at a different level, not the entry level associate ranking. it takes them almost 4 years to get to the level that a fresh local grad comes in at.
3. that said, not all get promoted to that lvl after 4yrs. i know several sim who are stuck below assoc1 even after 6yrs.

it seems quite pointless for a sim (or any pte u grad) to join big4 if thats the case. I mean assuming a guy finish ns & studies at 25 join them and 4 years later 29 yo then reach entry level associate?!?! might as well go elsewhere or start own biz.

pride. can boast to his peers the big4 hired him.

local acct grads these days dont wana do audit. most of them only attend the mass recruitment exercise after they got rejected from the banks MAP.

btw, for sim folks, here's how a typical exercise goes.

the big4 will send out invites to the accting final year students, and book 10 rooms and lecture halls in the respective school. cool huh? the recruiters actually come to campus. the whole process is like a doc visit. you submit your cv, and wait to get called.

usually most students will get 2-3 offers, the better ones obvious get offers from all 4.

however, from what i know, the big 4 rejects almost 90% of cvs from sim. the remainder get called up, and offered the junior ranks below assoc.

its actually the same rank a poly grad with acca gets.

i really dun see the logic, what is so prestigious about going big4? I can understand IB or trading, but taking lousy pay that is not even executive level just to have a big4 name card sounds so lame. does it even help in the cv to say that 1 has worked in big4 as a non-exec for a few years?

Oh man you guys are going to get a reality check when you graduate from school. Not all local grads go to MAP or top jobs. It is still reserved for the best of the best. Most local grads still end up in average jobs.

And I really don't see how this is 'cool'. The only reason big 4 does this is because its turnover is so high they have to replace staff constantly. You can come show off when MBB or IB come do this at your school