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Unregistered 03-05-2015 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66228)
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, when you mentioned that "cuts were made only because of recent business conditions in SEA", were you referring primarily to equity-based sales or does it include to other areas as well (e.g. M&A and DCM)? From what I saw around, the market in DCM and M&A for SEA isn't that great either..

Not sure what you mean by equity sales...I thought we were talking about IBD here?

Debt markets and M&A activity in SEA hasn't been strong since.......forever. Recent pullback and cuts are due mainly to drop in equity underwriting and not debt or M&A activity since there isn't a ton of debt or M&A activity in the SEA region anyway due to its infancy.

Unregistered 03-05-2015 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66232)
Not sure what you mean by equity sales...I thought we were talking about IBD here?

Debt markets and M&A activity in SEA hasn't been strong since.......forever. Recent pullback and cuts are due mainly to drop in equity underwriting and not debt or M&A activity since there isn't a ton of debt or M&A activity in the SEA region anyway due to its infancy.

Apologies - I meant to say ECM. Okay, I thought that I read somewhere that MacQ has decided to trim its M&A bankers as they recently realised that Singapore's companies (1) aren't very open to M&A; (2) prefer to do it in-house. I was wondering how true it is, and whether it's only a recent thing.

Unregistered 03-05-2015 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66236)
Apologies - I meant to say ECM. Okay, I thought that I read somewhere that MacQ has decided to trim its M&A bankers as they recently realised that Singapore's companies (1) aren't very open to M&A; (2) prefer to do it in-house. I was wondering how true it is, and whether it's only a recent thing.

Not sure where you read that from but if it's true then the following should explain.

It is somewhat true that Singapore (or Asian companies in general) firms are not as open to M&A as compared to their American or European counterparts. Alot of it is due to culture differences and what not. You must remember that a much higher percentage of businesses in Asia are family businesses and therefore, family controlled. Convincing an Asian family clientele to sell 51% equity in their family business? I would much rather fancy my chances at getting into Harvard law.

Also, more specific to MacQ, I think part of the reason why they're cutting back is also because they might be realizing that the investment banking business (IBD, S&T etc) is a very scalable business. i.e. clients realize that big players can offer more and at better value. Much respect to MacQ for toughing it out but 9/10 times the business flow goes to the big players in SEA (the BBs like GS, JPM, CS, MS etc and perhaps the big local banks like OCBC and DBS).

I think people are getting too caught up over a few isolated cuts in the business. These cuts and pullbacks happen all the time. It doesn't mean business is dying.

Unregistered 03-05-2015 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66242)
Not sure where you read that from but if it's true then the following should explain.

It is somewhat true that Singapore (or Asian companies in general) firms are not as open to M&A as compared to their American or European counterparts. Alot of it is due to culture differences and what not. You must remember that a much higher percentage of businesses in Asia are family businesses and therefore, family controlled. Convincing an Asian family clientele to sell 51% equity in their family business? I would much rather fancy my chances at getting into Harvard law.

Also, more specific to MacQ, I think part of the reason why they're cutting back is also because they might be realizing that the investment banking business (IBD, S&T etc) is a very scalable business. i.e. clients realize that big players can offer more and at better value. Much respect to MacQ for toughing it out but 9/10 times the business flow goes to the big players in SEA (the BBs like GS, JPM, CS, MS etc and perhaps the big local banks like OCBC and DBS).

I think people are getting too caught up over a few isolated cuts in the business. These cuts and pullbacks happen all the time. It doesn't mean business is dying.

Thanks for the insights; they were refreshing to me, especially for the last paragraph. And true, MacQ fell out of the Top 20 position in the M&A league for 2014. Have a great week ahead.

Unregistered 04-05-2015 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66225)
Don't think it's the clear cut FO people are referring to (usually when people say FO here they mean IBD, S&T or ER). 5xk+ p.a. is impossible for a BB FO position.


Read thread starter definition: not referring to top FO, normal FO.
Didn't say I was in BB, just a normal commercial bank.
So is my sum reasonable?

Unregistered 05-05-2015 07:16 AM

Not sure about Singapore, but I'm a first year analyst at a BB in London, getting 50,000 as base and bonus depends really on your performance, we don't go by months, but rather as a percentage of your p&l. My desk does fixed income quant strategies, bonus can be pretty substantial, more than your base at times, but the EU is introducing a bonus cap and a 50% tax on bonuses above 25,000. So in the end, we probably end up earning lesser take home pay Anyone has any advice if Singapore has any well known quant shops to move to? I know jump trading and Hudson River have a presence here.

Unregistered 05-05-2015 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66349)
Not sure about Singapore, but I'm a first year analyst at a BB in London, getting 50,000 as base and bonus depends really on your performance, we don't go by months, but rather as a percentage of your p&l. My desk does fixed income quant strategies, bonus can be pretty substantial, more than your base at times, but the EU is introducing a bonus cap and a 50% tax on bonuses above 25,000. So in the end, we probably end up earning lesser take home pay Anyone has any advice if Singapore has any well known quant shops to move to? I know jump trading and Hudson River have a presence here.

JT is one of the best employers.

Unregistered 07-05-2015 02:02 AM

The person who posted the bit about JPM not paying their interns 10k doesn't have a clue. I know of several friends who interned at JPM, and they are paid 10k in FO roles. No joke, I saw the pay slip/amt that HR sent them.

Unregistered 07-05-2015 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66455)
The person who posted the bit about JPM not paying their interns 10k doesn't have a clue. I know of several friends who interned at JPM, and they are paid 10k in FO roles. No joke, I saw the pay slip/amt that HR sent them.

yeah, just go to Amarone restaurant at lunch-time, you see many millionaires minted in JPM, GIC, etc eating buffalo mozzarella & parma ham for appetizer, and sipping st pellegrino. Main course is of course lobster
For multi-millionaires MDs, they go to China club in floor 52, yummy dim sum...
Later we head off to fitness first in floor 9 to burn off the excess calories, before going to red dot building next door to pick up babes... haha your 10k/mth paycheck fantasy

Unregistered 08-05-2015 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66490)
yeah, just go to Amarone restaurant at lunch-time, you see many millionaires minted in JPM, GIC, etc eating buffalo mozzarella & parma ham for appetizer, and sipping st pellegrino. Main course is of course lobster
For multi-millionaires MDs, they go to China club in floor 52, yummy dim sum...
Later we head off to fitness first in floor 9 to burn off the excess calories, before going to red dot building next door to pick up babes... haha your 10k/mth paycheck fantasy

Your obviously know nothing about the reality of the industry.

Unregistered 08-05-2015 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66494)
Your obviously know nothing about the reality of the industry.

Could you share the realities that you know about banking hotshots and/or the industry in general?

Unregistered 08-05-2015 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66514)
Could you share the realities that you know about banking hotshots and/or the industry in general?

like I've mentioned up in the thread earlier...front office interns in most BBs are paid a pro rated amount pegged to a first year analyst's pay. amount is public...they were recently increased to 85k USD p.a...or about 115k SGD. this is close to 10k SGD per month.

Unregistered 08-05-2015 02:20 PM

never judge banking industry ppl's pay/net worth based on their lifestyle, its their culture to project a high flyer wine & dine lifestyle. a lot of times its not even their money, just claiming from co.

i have seen enough bank guys try to BS talk big only to get busted out of job then kbkb dun even have money to tide through 1 mth.

Unregistered 08-05-2015 05:51 PM

LOL, I have never seen so much sour grape kuku losers. Go ASK anyone working in BB FO positions! The intern pay is $10k/mth. If you don't know or lack the access, go to any local Uni career services or attend one of the talks hosted by the big banks.

Don't be a joke, pls.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66525)
LOL, I have never seen so much sour grape kuku losers. Go ASK anyone working in BB FO positions! The intern pay is $10k/mth. If you don't know or lack the access, go to any local Uni career services or attend one of the talks hosted by the big banks.

Don't be a joke, pls.

true on the 10k and above bit.

so many sour grapes here.

but you reap what you sow. it's hard, hard work.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67144)
true on the 10k and above bit.

so many sour grapes here.

but you reap what you sow. it's hard, hard work.

You guys didn't study finance in uni? If you did, you would have heard quite a few stories like that. There are certain banks that pay full-time salary for interns. Positions are few and competitive since you can imagine everybody wants to get the 10k internship for a chance to be converted to a perm role after graduation. Perhaps you hung out with the average students and didn't hear about such things. Most interns get 800/month.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67155)
You guys didn't study finance in uni? If you did, you would have heard quite a few stories like that. There are certain banks that pay full-time salary for interns. Positions are few and competitive since you can imagine everybody wants to get the 10k internship for a chance to be converted to a perm role after graduation. Perhaps you hung out with the average students and didn't hear about such things. Most interns get 800/month.


Exactly. Some people just cannot reconcile reality with their own less-than-stellar situations. So they try to convince themselves and, unsuccessfully, others who know way more than they do.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67182)
Exactly. Some people just cannot reconcile reality with their own less-than-stellar situations. So they try to convince themselves and, unsuccessfully, others who know way more than they do.

Yup, it's true that they earn that much. However, the number of places available is extremely low. It's very difficult to obtain those positions; you need to be the top few in the entire cohort in Singapore. Furthermore, even when you managed get into it, it can be really competitive inside as you're competing against top-notch people.

In addition, these positions tend have an "up-or-out" structure. That is, you need to perform well, if not you're out. This is because Front Office positions are essentially revenue-generating positions. You're at mercy to: (1) the general economic conditions which tend to be volatile and (2) your peers (both within your bank and other banks) for the same clients. There's no reason why the bank should keep you if you're not able to generate revenue for the bank.

Hence, the environment will be really stressful.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 09:28 PM

[I'm the above poster] Having said that, if you're good, you can really earn a lot of money as long as the economic condition isn't too bad. Nevertheless, the financial industry is changing a lot over the years, which has caused a substantial reduction in compensation. This is due to: (1) Increased regulations; (2) Decreasing spread/commission by FO personnel; (3) Increasing competition. All these have led to lower margins and lower revenues, which eventually would lead to lower income earned by these FO personnel.

Hence, think and do your due diligence before you leap into it. The financial industry isn't as rosy as you may think it is to be.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67183)
Yup, it's true that they earn that much. However, the number of places available is extremely low. It's very difficult to obtain those positions; you need to be the top few in the entire cohort in Singapore. Furthermore, even when you managed get into it, it can be really competitive inside as you're competing against top-notch people.

In addition, these positions tend have an "up-or-out" structure. That is, you need to perform well, if not you're out. This is because Front Office positions are essentially revenue-generating positions. You're at mercy to: (1) the general economic conditions which tend to be volatile and (2) your peers (both within your bank and other banks) for the same clients. There's no reason why the bank should keep you if you're not able to generate revenue for the bank.

Hence, the environment will be really stressful.

Not sure what the exact figures are for local students but all the bulge brackets that operate here tend to hire aggressively from top schools from outside of Singapore (ivies and top US/European/Canadian universities). I think it's inherently easier to get hired by a BB if you study at a top university elsewhere. If you're a local student in a front office function at a bulge bracket, you'll not only be competing against other top local students but also top students from around the world...period.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67185)
Not sure what the exact figures are for local students but all the bulge brackets that operate here tend to hire aggressively from top schools from outside of Singapore (ivies and top US/European/Canadian universities). I think it's inherently easier to get hired by a BB if you study at a top university elsewhere. If you're a local student in a front office function at a bulge bracket, you'll not only be competing against other top local students but also top students from around the world...period.

Please lah, that's what everyone says but they don't know how well local grads place.

This whole "competition against top students around the world" has been overblown. Trust me, MORE than enough deserving local grads with second uppers and NO fantabulous CCA records have made it to these internships/positions. I would list names, but a lot of them are my peers and friends. A simple LinkedIn search would suffice but I assure you, LOCAL grads DO make it to the Front office. And no, they are not FCH, top of the top blah blah nonsense crap that these forums like to mystify them to be.

They are your regular, hardworking students who WANT such careers and made efforts to strive in that direction. NOT everyone in a local uni wants to do banking, or FO work. Those who do, and who put in the necessary effort usually get it.

Unregistered 25-05-2015 11:01 PM

If you enter a local uni, you will have bulge bracket banks coming down for recruitment talks. A good number are very open to interacting with the students, and the alumni network is also decently strong.

Of course, I will agree that ivies and lse/oxbridge do well, but the local grads who put in the effort to network and work hard by getting good grades... its manageable. Certainly not something that is impossible; in fact, some of the students, in my honest opinion, are just very mediocre individuals who follow a cookie-cutter template.

immemorial 28-05-2015 10:47 PM

The internship pay for BB FO to be exact is 9.6k. Citi however, dropped that amount for S&T.

To clarify, banks in sg do hire from ivies and oxbridge but these are usually about 20% to 30% or internal hiring. Local grads are quite sought after in Asia. BBs and even top investment firms from HK/China come to SG to do their hiring. I have quite a few friends who are moving to HK for their summer internships.

Unregistered 29-05-2015 09:41 AM

Wrong, AM pay is also not 9.6k.

It's more like 8.5k. I am not sure about equity research though, anyone care to clarify?

Unregistered 29-05-2015 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67325)
Wrong, AM pay is also not 9.6k.

It's more like 8.5k. I am not sure about equity research though, anyone care to clarify?

Wrong, previous comment about the compensation (9.6k) in front office positions at bulge brackets is correct. Why is this so hard to believe? We are talking about the biggest banks here...

Unregistered 29-05-2015 08:56 PM

Asset management isn't paid the same as investment banking! Why is that so hard to believe?!

I know of friends who interned in JPM AM. Please don't smoke crap, not all FO positions are paid the same. And yes, I even know that JPM revised their IBD summer salary for interns to 10k (up from 9.6k).

Unregistered 30-05-2015 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67371)
Asset management isn't paid the same as investment banking! Why is that so hard to believe?!

I know of friends who interned in JPM AM. Please don't smoke crap, not all FO positions are paid the same. And yes, I even know that JPM revised their IBD summer salary for interns to 10k (up from 9.6k).

Wrong, previous comment about the compensation (9.6k) in front office positions at bulge brackets is correct. Why is this so hard to believe? We are talking about the biggest banks here...

Unregistered 30-05-2015 12:20 PM

Are you kidding me?

Asset management (and even wealth management) isn't paid the same. Must be another kuku bird who isn't in FO.

Unregistered 30-05-2015 07:36 PM

grad in 2013 and worked for about 1.5yrs within risk/compliance area.. currently drawing 4.5 with bonuses avging 2-3mths.

was wondering how long would it take to be earning in the 6-7k bracket on avg for a sg male?

btw, true blue sg male here w/ ns obligations

Unregistered 31-05-2015 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67402)
Are you kidding me?

Asset management (and even wealth management) isn't paid the same. Must be another kuku bird who isn't in FO.

Wrong, previous comment about the compensation (9.6k) in front office positions at bulge brackets is correct. Why is this so hard to believe? We are talking about the biggest banks here... Must be another kuku bird who isn't in FO.

Unregistered 31-05-2015 11:22 AM

What a ****ing cunt of a loser who doesn't know **** or anyone in those circles.

Really hopeless. Asset management ISN'T paid the same as IB. HHHAHAHAHHAA. Real joke.

I dare you to verify your claims. Stop repeating lame ****, ****ing poser.

Unregistered 31-05-2015 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67433)
What a ****ing cunt of a loser who doesn't know **** or anyone in those circles.

Really hopeless. Asset management ISN'T paid the same as IB. HHHAHAHAHHAA. Real joke.

I dare you to verify your claims. Stop repeating lame ****, ****ing poser.

So angry for what? Why take it so personally? Was that your pride and ego speaking?

Unregistered 31-05-2015 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67440)
So angry for what? Why take it so personally? Was that your pride and ego speaking?

Haha, I'm a different poster from the above. But I have to agree that people who likes to talk rubbish when they don't know much are really irritating though. Just like the person who said the following:

"Wrong, previous comment about the compensation (9.6k) in front office positions at bulge brackets is correct. Why is this so hard to believe? We are talking about the biggest banks here... Must be another kuku bird who isn't in FO."

If you don't have accurate and reliable first-hand information, why would you want to give wrong information to others?

Having said that, we should chill a little here. As long as you're in BB FO, the pay would be way above the average. The difference between that 9.6k and 8.5k isn't all that much. If you're arguing over that 1.1k difference, it is likely more about ego rather than about satisfying your personal needs.

And yes, FO employees in BBs are paid differently across the IB/AM/WM/ER divisions.

Unregistered 31-05-2015 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67441)
Haha, I'm a different poster from the above. But I have to agree that people who likes to talk rubbish when they don't know much are really irritating though. Just like the person who said the following:

"Wrong, previous comment about the compensation (9.6k) in front office positions at bulge brackets is correct. Why is this so hard to believe? We are talking about the biggest banks here... Must be another kuku bird who isn't in FO."

If you don't have accurate and reliable first-hand information, why would you want to give wrong information to others?

Having said that, we should chill a little here. As long as you're in BB FO, the pay would be way above the average. The difference between that 9.6k and 8.5k isn't all that much. If you're arguing over that 1.1k difference, it is likely more about ego rather than about satisfying your personal needs.

And yes, FO employees in BBs are paid differently across the IB/AM/WM/ER divisions.

Hi you seem very well informed...

Do u know the range between FO for those divisions?

I heard a PB ARM gets about 4-5k... Not sure about Er,am trading and ibd

Unregistered 31-05-2015 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67441)

And yes, FO employees in BBs are paid differently across the IB/AM/WM/ER divisions.

Exactly, they are paid differently across various divisions.

But the difference isn't all that minuscule because it adds up (across salary and bonuses).

Unregistered 31-05-2015 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67454)
Hi you seem very well informed...

Do u know the range between FO for those divisions?

I heard a PB ARM gets about 4-5k... Not sure about Er,am trading and ibd

Which bank and function do you want to know? S&T and IB are usually paid around the same while there is a greater variance amongst AM/WM depending on bank and function.

Unregistered 31-05-2015 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67461)
Which bank and function do you want to know? S&T and IB are usually paid around the same while there is a greater variance amongst AM/WM depending on bank and function.

well would be great if u could list those that u know? I've always wondered if the AM or pb guys get more than us...

I work in a Bb 2nd year and I draw about 13k basic these days... Bonus not much though...

Thinking if it's worth the effort to jump ship. Feel underpaid

Unregistered 31-05-2015 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67462)
well would be great if u could list those that u know? I've always wondered if the AM or pb guys get more than us...

I work in a Bb 2nd year and I draw about 13k basic these days... Bonus not much though...

Thinking if it's worth the effort to jump ship. Feel underpaid

Why not jump into PE/HF?

PB: I would not jump into PB unless I know I can secure clients. Base will definitely not be that high. I'm not too sure about this, but I think that JPM pays the highest here; probably slightly below $8k/mth? The other banks (non-bb) usually pay <$6k/mth. Your future compensation will be determined by how many clients you can secure. If you're not able to get a minimum number of clients, you would likely to be cut-off after a number of years.

I'm not sure about AM though. Fresh grad $8.5k/mth for BB sounds about right.

Unregistered 31-05-2015 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67464)
Why not jump into PE/HF?

PB: I would not jump into PB unless I know I can secure clients. Base will definitely not be that high. I'm not too sure about this, but I think that JPM pays the highest here; probably slightly below $8k/mth? The other banks (non-bb) usually pay <$6k/mth. Your future compensation will be determined by how many clients you can secure. If you're not able to get a minimum number of clients, you would likely to be cut-off after a number of years.

I'm not sure about AM though. Fresh grad $8.5k/mth for BB sounds about right.

Are you in the finance industry?

Because PE is so ridiculously small here that it makes no sense to jump into PE. Maybe, better hours... But the pay from many of the shops are crap.

Hedge fund...? Few ibankers have transferable skills to hedge fund and they rarely transit over; unless he's in a trader role?

Unregistered 01-06-2015 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 67468)
Are you in the finance industry?

Because PE is so ridiculously small here that it makes no sense to jump into PE. Maybe, better hours... But the pay from many of the shops are crap.

Hedge fund...? Few ibankers have transferable skills to hedge fund and they rarely transit over; unless he's in a trader role?

I would actually argue that alot of bankers have transferable skills to hedge funds...especially HFs that employ a fundamental bottom up strategy. In fact, investment bankers have MORE transferable skills compared to traders. If you're a trader in say a macro product such as FX or rates, then yes...perhaps a role in a macro fund would be perfect but in almost all other HFs that employ a different strategy, bankers have the better skill set to transfer. A sell-side trader mainly trades flow and manages risk; very little detailed security analysis involved...how is that transferable at all to a non-macro oriented HF?


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