Honest Question
 

May I check?

Is it true that if a school P receives a consecutive D/E for two consecutive staff climate survey, he/she will be sent back to HQ for retraining?

False. He will be applauded as he did not rule the school with an iron fist, and hence staff are willing to voice out their true concerns

Usually A grade = teachers are too scared been an anonymous survey

Hi, I'm just curious, how is ranking by the KPs and SLs usually done in a school?

Is there some way they use to compare between staff of the same grade?

In theory, the Key Results Areas (as reflected in your EPMS - think there are more detailed versions elsewhere) are a good guideline for this.

In practice, the panel is ultimately composed of humans and they will judge officers based on whatever information they have available - it's probably an interaction of how the officers are represented (by RO and others in the panel), existing impressions, and various other miscellaneous factors.

Updates on school counsellor
 

Hello,

It's end of August now. Anyone who applied for the school counsellor position in Jun/ Jul and has gone through interviews yet?

Happy teachers day!!

Pay after PGDE
 

Hello, I was wondering whether there will be an increase in salary after a student-teacher graduates from NIE-PGDE? Does anyone know?

Yup its true. Happened to a colleague of mine.. The P was cold storaged to some HQ dept.. And very jialat.

You are not a teacher then...

Yes. Think about 1-2 increments.

So technically, is it safe and fair to say that if you have a good RO, and also to put it bluntly, those who bootlick their RO, will have a higher performance grade?

I would like to ask about relief teaching assignments. I have already gotten the SRE approval, and have approached many schools in my area to ask. But, most of them told me that that they do not need relief teachers. I have tried this for several years to get a school teaching experience, but to no avail. Can anyone advise me? Thank you!

For the most part... probably.

However, the ranking panel is made out of multiple ppl; if said bootlicker fails to make a good impression on others then it might not.

Let's put it this way - there are multiple factors at work here, and (I think) the situation's probably not as bad as one might think. The average panel member probably aims to give fair grades to the school's colleagues; although probably biased (whether consciously or not) towards the ppl they know (esp. their dept officers). Since multiple departments are represented, this will tend to balance out (sometimes not).

Hard work and competence do play a part in this; my point is more that people need to know about these in order to be recognised during ranking. As a thought exercise... here are three hypothetical officers. How do you think they will be ranked, assuming the same grade?

A: Obvious 'bootlicker', takes on many dept projects, quite liked by HOD. Skives off for CCA / committees.
B: Mediocre officer, genuinely enthusiastic disposition, generally happy to help out anyone who asks.
C: Hardworking capable officer, very quiet, leaves school early to do marking outside.

(Don't think there's a fixed answer for this - depending on how other HODs have observed these officers at work and how much the RO fights for them, I can imagine different outcomes...)

Advice needed for young BT
 

Hi,

I hope someone who is still in service can provide me with some advice.

Background:
I was a overseas scholar (Teaching scholarship (Overseas)) did both my bachelor and master degree before returning back to Singapore to complete my PgDE. Currently, I have just been posted/seconded to an Independent school as my first school posting as a BT. (consider me lucky). At the present moment, I'm a GEO 2 (trained) officer

As I recently just completed my work review with my RO. I raised up the conversation of having some interests in MOE FLP. However, as my RO is a direct hire from the school, my RO does not really know much about the MOE career development (that was basically what my RO said). Also my school also has its own PD, however, my guess was it's main focus is on the direct hire staffs since I am on secondment.

So my question is

1) Will I get to know my performance grade after this work review? If so, is there an approx timeline?

2) How will ranking of EOs who are seconded to independent school be different to say EOs who are in govt school?

3) Regarding salary, just out of curiosity and I have been wondering what is salary range points? It seems like based on the forum, the salary range for example GEO 2 is quite a big range..Just curious how to they gauge the salary for EOs who are on the same GEO level but receiving different salary.

4) Does anyone know much about FLP? Should I try asking my P to sought for recommendation?


Teaching and learning is of great importance for me as BT, but at the same time, I would like some clarity and goals to work towards to.

Hope someone who was/is in similar shoes or have encounter young BTs like me can share their thoughts on this.

I was pretty much in your shoes almost a decade ago - some of my info might be outdated, but I'll have a crack at answering your questions.

1) Performance grade can officially be viewed in mid-March next year when they release the performance bonus (it's printed on the payslip for the bonus). The school (possibly your RO) might have an inkling of what it is before that (school ranking exercise should be around this time), but since at this stage it's just recommended grade and not yet finalised they probably won't be letting you know (and even if they do, it's not yet official).

2) I'm not 100% certain, actually. I know independent schools will rank all their seconded staff and report to MOE. I'm not sure if they're ranked against direct staff of the same grade as well. I imagine independent schools have more flexible quotas to work with - I think at least among direct hires, there are more Bs, but honestly I don't know enough to answer this.

3) If you go to Pac@Gov you'll be able to find a link that tells you the range for your current salary scale. I think someone's posted a crowdsourced range of salary scales previously - try looking further back in this thread.

4) My understanding of FLP is that you are automatically recommended if your CEP is pretty high for your age / years in service. No harm speaking to your school leader (might be that only the P is MOE staff?), but I'd suggest positioning it as trying to find out more about the programme (and how to get onto it), rather than an outright request for a recommendation.

Additionally: I really enjoyed my first stint in an independent school, but looking back I don't think it was the most career-enhancing one, if that's your priority. You get ranked against other relatively competent people (for the most part, I think even the lazy ones at least do enough to get by), you have minimal exposure to what happens in an average government school, and there are limited opportunities for advancement (vacancies don't open up that often, and all else being equal, direct hires will likely be prioritised). If career progression is a goal of yours, you can consider taking up a leadership (e.g. SH/LH) position in another school, or going for a HQ posting, around the 3 year mark.

Figured I'd bump this - anyone has additional data/edits to suggest? Since this is, after all, the salary.sg forum...

p.s. for teachers without any official appointments, salary grade will cap at GEO5.

GEO1 (Untrained): ? (non-graduates start here)
GEO (Trained): 1600 - 2730
GEO2 (Untrained): 2000-4340 (graduates start here)
GEO2 (Trained): 2538-4500
GEO3: 3515 -5616
GEO4: 4545-7271
GEO5: 4903-7845 (max salary grade for standard teacher)
SEO1: 5651-9064 (min. LH/SH/ST)
SEO2: 7236-10766 (min. HOD/LT)
SEO3: 8748-11232 (+9%?) (min. HOD/MT)

One more thing I thought I'd mention - back when I started, starting pay was linked to degree class. e.g. all those with 2.1 / first class honours would start higher within the grade. I compared with some friends in my first year and realised I was being paid less - wrote in to HR and realised they hadn't captured my honours class, so they ended up adjusting it (with backpay).

After a few years in service, it'll probably get out of sync since each year's increment is affected by previous year's performance grade.

I have no idea how they decide where to place you within the scale when you get promoted - I imagine there's some formula for it that gives you a bump in salary while keeping some space before hitting the next salary ceiling.

UGs teacher will have better career progress
 

I'm currently a BT in Boy Brigade, want to know if UGs would help me with my career progress.

2. When will School decide our CEP?

Thank you!

1. It doesn’t matter which CCA you are assigned to. What matters most is the impact you make.

2. Schools decide on your CEP during ranking session and this will be reviewed on a yearly basis. To be honest, most teachers who are not scholars will start off with a CEP of SEO1/2. If they consistently perform well, their CEP will be bumped up. Similarly, if they do not perform so well, their CEP might drop to a GEO5.

So by default average teacher can only make it to VP SEO 2. While scholar cep (moe teaching scholarship) is superscale H?

No. It is not true. If you constantly get B or A for your performance, your CEP will be bumped up. A normal non-scholar teacher can also have superscale CEP. There are many non-scholar principals too.

Similarly, if the scholar does not perform well, their CEP will also drop.

Ultimately, it really depends on your consistent performance. A scholar may have a head start, but if you consistently perform well, you can get there too.

You must understand that the scholars have put in their efforts in achieving excellent results in the past. So, it is fair that they get a head start for their achievement. However saying this, it does not mean that a non scholar teacher can never outperform the scholars. In fact, there are many non-scholar teachers who are doing better than the scholars.

Eh. Unless things have changed recently, default CEP is GEO5. You actually need to be deemed promising enough to have CEP bumped up (and thus eligible for higher appointment).

I've not seen fresh scholars before so not entirely sure if they start off higher. It's possible that they do; but I think it's more likely that they start off the same but get bumped up faster.

masters before joining MOE teaching career
 

Hi, if i join MOE after i have completed my Masters, will i be evaluated as an undergrad/ mid-career? On MOE website, the pay scale is shown by honours. i heard that mid-career switchers will have a different scheme that allows them to promote faster as well? so i'm like caught in the middle now.

if i'm evaluated based on my undergrad then it seems like my masters useless?anyone care to share about pay & progression of a masters grad joining MOE? thanks in advance!

generally if U join at say 35 yrs old with substantial job experience in other fields, yes considered mid career.

But say U take a master immediately after your bachelors, then it is clear U do not have any substantial job experience that may enhance your student experience.

As masters at our local universities are considered to be relatively non selective, therefore to maintain equality with other fresh grad of equal calibre, you will be emplaced on the fresh grad scheme.

As an prospective educator, you should understand that nothing is wasted. Even though your masters does not confer U higher pay, but it is an experience, personal learning journey which is of tangible intrinsic value to yourself. As an educator, you will soon realise not everything can be or should be monetised.

info on current connect plan payouts?

Sorry if this sounds political, but I got a feeling that it does affect performance and progression.

1. How do you deal with colleagues who spread rumours and report unjustified things about you to your RO?

2. Will ROs give lower performance grades (since performance and progression largely depends on ROs during ranking) upon hearing these talks/rumours (without concrete evidence)?

I am asking this because as mentioned previously, ROs are ultimately still humans; some of them might still be easily swayed by others, no?

Not sure what responses you expect to get here, but here's my attempt:

1) Talk to your RO about it.

2) Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how much they trust the source(s) and various other factors. You'll probably be able to judge better than stranger on an online forum.

Ultimately if you feel you're in this situation and your RO is not likely to listen to you, it's probably best to look for another posting elsewhere.

I mean, there are official channels you could go through (e.g. discuss the situation with a school leader, or even formally dispute the performance grade) but I won't be too optimistic on the outcome of those. Plus, even if it turns out well, that RO will still be around and things might be unpleasant by that point.

Just for clarifications:

1. No, default CEP for new staff is not SEO1 (SH / ST). You have to work your way up.

2. While you can try to guess that your CEP might increase with As and Bs, but you might be interested to know they CEP and performance grades have no direct link. Performance grade is only linked to performance bonus. We can have a teacher who did very well and get B, but rejects higher appointments and thus having CEP remained.

Promotion
 

Hi all, I'm just wondering what do I need to do in order to get appointed to a leadership position. My school is fairly new and there are a lot of vacancies. I am interested in the leadership track and have expressed my interest so far.

I was a dip holder from 2014 to 2018. Had quite a good appraisal for the past few years. But I did heard my P hinting to take up teaching and specialist track which I am not Interested in. What should I do?

Generally you'd need to be identified as having high potential - expressing interest is a good start. However, it's best if you are able to demonstrate leadership capability. Be a level coordinator, head some committees, even proactively suggest and volunteer to drive a project (e.g. remedial programme for your subject, if they didn't do well in prelims)? Or don't create new work to do; ask your RO/HOD what they hope to achieve and see if you are able to help make it come to fruition.

If you've been getting good appraisal (C+ at minimum; A/B is ideal) I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to negotiate some opportunities for you to prove yourself. To take up a formal appointment your CEP needs to have been bumped up from default - it's possible that you have been doing well in your assigned roles, but haven't demonstrated sufficient leadership potential for the school leaders to endorse an increase.

All the best!

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110397]Generally you'd need to be identified as having high potential - expressing interest is a good start. However, it's best if you are able to demonstrate leadership capability. Be a level coordinator, head some committees, even proactively suggest and volunteer to drive a project (e.g. remedial programme for your subject, if they didn't do well in prelims)? Or don't create new work to do; ask your RO/HOD what they hope to achieve and see if you are able to help make it come to fruition.

If you've been getting good appraisal (C+ at minimum; A/B is ideal) I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to negotiate some opportunities for you to prove yourself. To take up a formal appointment your CEP needs to have been bumped up from default - it's possible that you have been doing well in your assigned roles, but haven't demonstrated sufficient leadership potential for the school leaders to endorse an increase.

All the best!

Thank you for the encouragement. I have been getting C+ and above for the past 3 years. And maybe I feel that I'm fairly new to the fraternity (4yrs till date). I have headed a few committees in a year and I'm one the the CCA IC. However, I think they don't see CCA Leader as some form of appointment or a KPI to hit even though I was appointed by the school. I heard that wanting to hold a leadership position in the fraternity is not encouraged. 😂 But I guess there are too many geo 5 in my school alr, so being able to head one committee or event is a big thing.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110413]Sometimes in order to take on leadership role, you need to consider if there are suitable vacancies for you in your current school. If there are no vacancies, you may want to consider changing school. You have to work for your aspirations and not wait for opportunities to come knocking on your door.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110414]Yes, that is true. But I just feel that there are so many vacancy for KP position in my school. Not sure why it hasn't been open to teachers who are interested. There are only HODs for core dept. But I'll give myself another 2 years or so, then I might consider switching to another school.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110438]Another qn: who did you express your interest in leadership position to? Sometimes, if we only express our interest to our HODs/ROs, they may not bring it up to the SLs. Find opportunities to speak to your SL and ask them how you can get there. Many a times, they may offer you an internal position to assess you. :)

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110450]To be honest, I merely mentioned it to my ROs for the past few years. And I feel that based on my past performances, I seems to be doing well for my grade. But that could be the case where I don't have many colleague who are in the same grade as me. I'm wondering if I talk to my SLs, will they see me in a different light? Probably another perspective which might not be good. To be honest, I feel very confident of my inter-personal skills as well a colleague with a good EQ. At the end of the day, I think I'll need a chance to prove myself in a position. They did put me as either 1st or 2nd IC of a committee or event, but usually those are once off thing.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110454]That’s why I say find opportunity to speak to SL. Don’t stomp into their office. I think that may be awkward. Find opportunities in the canteen. Those are good opportunities to chit chat with them and while in the midst of talking, ask them how can you get to a leadership role. Never position it as why they did not choose you as a KP. Instead, ask them what are some qualities they look for in a leader and how can you reach there. This way, they will know your aspirations and most leaders do like proactive teachers.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;110458]Yeap! That is a very good way of doing it, but my SLs don't go to the canteen. But there are sure opportunities to ask for qualities they r looking in a leader.

I'm curious:

1. I know all EOs are entitled to medical leave and hospitalisation leave. But does taking these affect your performance grade/bonus? I'm talking about taking e.g. 10 days and above within 1 year.

Any ROs able to comment?

2. From what I heard, principals will rotate among schools every few years. Typically, how many years is that?

Thanks.

seeking advice
 

Hi all,
I know that many of you are experienced teachers here, so I am hoping that you might be able to give me some advice on my dilemma now.

I am holding a PhD in a teaching subject and before my PhD of 5 years, I had also 2 years of working experience as an engineer. I have a passion for teaching and I know I do enjoy it as I have had many relief teaching experiences already.

I have recently obtained a job offer from an international school doing IB (similar to ACS(I)) and have also applied in the recent window of PGDE. the CS I have chosen is the JC and Sec of my PhD/BSc major . However, the first offer that came offered me Pri English and Science. I actually love children and I can work with children, but I chose JC and Sec so that I can make use of my knowledge as my teaching subject is not available in primary level. So I have rejected that and they say that they will reconsider me for sec/jc level.

Salary wise, the offer I received is okay, though a little lower than my expected. I do not know what MOE is able to offer me a place/decent salary. I am just worried about the future coz the offer is a 2 year renewable, and I do not have that many options in Singapore unlike if I am NIE trained. There are still a couple of days in the window that MOE would be informing me, but the school is saying that they cannot wait too long for my decision.

Anyone can offer some advice for me?

1. No. It will not affect your performance bonus. Ultimately, you are being ranked by your performance. If taking mc results in you performing poorly, then it will affect your performance. However, if you are genuinely sick, please take mc for the greater good. It’s very irresponsible to go to work knowing that you can pass viruses to others. You will not be ranked poorly simply because of mcs. It is your work performance that matters.

But ROs are also very aware of some black sheep who pretend to take mc even when they are not sick. Some people feel that it is their entitlement to clear all 14 days of mc and take mc whenever they want to. Anyway for these ppl, their work performance would usually be average too.

However, you need to rmb that performance bonus is different from promotion. If you are often sickly and weak, you may not be chosen to take on higher position. After all, no companies would want to promote a KP who is often not ard to do their tasks.

2. Anywhere between 3-6 years. For mission schools, the P can stay longer.

Thank you for your reply.

1. What if an officer is quite sickly e.g. just had operation etc., but keeps using it as a reason for not completing basic tasks on time? Basic tasks refer to finish marking exam papers on time etc.

2. Is 6 years the maximum? Meaning MOE will forcibly rotate that P out?