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Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 249992)

a2
k:3800
p:4000
d:
E:

thanks! for fresh grass take note p has no bonus for associates.
if anyone knows the figures for E & D kindly share! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 249960)

Not wrong but honestly, half the time people here compare to banking as if it is the closest alternative. but the fact is banking is not a 'vanilla' accounting related role. You would be better off not studying accounting if you want to go into banking. The more traditional concept of a job tied to accounting is in the realm of reporting and fp&a for instance. In fact even fp&a is more specially catered to with the data analytics spec. For those who have been looking to exit big4 after the recent pay hikes would notice that for traditional finance roles, the industry has struggled to keep up with the Big4 pay increments and offers only abt 10% or just matching the big4 salary when the exit. This is a far cry from the times of a 20% bump. So whether this is 'cheap labor' is up to debate because that is the market value for such a role.

So are auditors underpaid for the nature of their work? Hard to say. It would be purely unfair to say that they work longer hours, hence they should be paid more. because the value of the function is as such regardless of how much you work.

So bottom line is big4 is competing with entry level finance roles while offering slightly lower pay, but much better progression. Even compared to banking, promotions are not as guaranteed as big4 and this allows big4 people to quickly climb through the ranks and make a lateral exit. Barring the star performers who are able to excel in banking, Big4 remains the most solid path to promotions and eventual exit at a higher level m/sm without having to engage in excessive bootlicking or ass kissing that would be imperative in the commercial/banking context.

Anyone who has been in corporate would know that for cost center functions like finance, promotions comes either when some leaves or when there is a justified increase in scope of work. However, this does not come easy to such functions because of the steady nature of the work.

So there are pros and cons to big4 with the obvious downside of pay and lifestyle, but with the promise of accelerated progression that is well recognized in the industry. People who argue that such a traditional time has passed and that you can start off in the industry just as well needs to do a reality check 5 years down the road to see whether they have hit the promotion bottleneck. Maybe then they will appreciate what big4 is able to offer.

But this is not to defend the fact that Big4 should and have the resources to make life better for junior staff. And the fact that the mass hiring from overseas is a disgrace~

Just my 2 cents

This is very insightful and actually one of the most well reasoned posts I've read here in years. Are you a Big 4 partner by any chance?

Long and short is, the actual calibre of the graduates and lateral hires that Big 4 routinely hire, aren't actually competitive for other industries like banking or consulting etc. So the apples-to-apples comparison is actually with accounting on the corporate side.

I wonder whether that's peculiar only to the Southeast Asia market especially Singapore? Meaning in London, Sydney, NY, Big 4 actually hires grads who are actually competitive for other industries, and so Big 4 professional services is a genuine alternative career option to banking.

I suppose the whole problem is that Big 4 constantly pitches itself as a competitive alternative career to consulting and banking. But the fact is that this doesn't reflect reality. As we know, the grads who could've made it to MAP in banks or other "high finance", would not have considered Big 4 in the first place (except as a backup option).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250010)

A large part of why Big4 is regarded as an alternative to consulting/banking is also attributed to the size of their markets there and the level of market activity in their capital markets.

Can auditing an SGX client be equivalent to auditing a NYSE client? Sg office being the component auditor of Apple vs US office auditing Apple Group. The scale, complexity, importance and just overall revenue is completely different. For tier 1 capital markets country like London, NY we can definitely expect the importance of the capital market to buoy the relative prestige and importance of the related roles as well.

Whereas in sg the largest audit clients in sg are either government linked or REITs and property... This makes audit pure scut work that no one actually refers to the FS for anything useful. But in those markets where ppl actually use the FS to make decisions obviously the job function is treated with more respect and importance. That the difference between audit treated as a compliance function versus having predictive value.

~

To all the new comers, industry that you audit or enter is also extremely important. Dont think its all the same. FS audit and non FS audit, and even sectors within non FS audit can all lead to different paths. Think abt it from the perspective (if you intend to stay in sg) which of these sectors can experience meaningful growth in the next 10 years. This will majorly impact your exit opps in the future. Whether u want to exit into tech or financial services etc. All these draw back to how money flows towards industries that are treated with a greater level of importance (capital market activity).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250010)

u rly think that big 4 partners have the time to loiter on this kind of forum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 249995)

thanks! for fresh grass take note p has no bonus for associates.
if anyone knows the figures for E & D kindly share! :)

Lets Make an update thread so that this page is actually useful:

A1
K: 3600
P: 4000
E:
D:

A2
K: 3800
P:
E:
D:

S1
K: 4800
P:
E:
D:

S2
K:
P:
E:
D:

AM
K:
P:
E:
D:

M
K:
P:
E:
D:

A1
k: 3600
e: 3600
d:
P: 3500

a2
k: 3800
p: 4000
e:
D:

S1
k: 4800
p:
E:
D:

S2
k:
P:
E:
D:

Am
k:
P:
E:
D:

M
k:
P:
E:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250020)

A1
k: 3600
e: 3600
d:
P: 3500 (w/o bonus)

a2
k: 3800
p: 4000 (w/o bonus)
e:
D:

S1
k: 4800
p:
E: 4800-5000 (depending performance)
D:

S2
k:
P:
E: 5500
D:

Am
k:
P:
E: 6300
D:

M
k:
P:
E:

edited some figures :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250024)

edited some figures :)

A1
K: 3600
P: 3500 (w/o bonus)
E: 3600
D: Does it matter?

a2
K: 3800
P: 4000 (w/o bonus)
E:
D: Does it matter?

S1
K: 4800
P:
E: 4800-5000 (depending performance)
D: Does it matter?

S2
K: 5300 (before 20%)
P:
E: 5500
D: Does it matter?

Am
K:
P:
E: 6300
D: Does it matter?

M
K:
P:
E:
D: Does it matter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250027)

KP S1 4.8? Anyone can verify?

EY S3 6.3 is this accurate? Anybody can confirm?