Engineer to banking
 

Hi All,

I am currently a final year student studying chemical engineering in one of the local Us. I have done an internship with a petrochemical company. During the internship, I found out that engineering aint my cup of tea. and deep inside, i kind of regretted of taking engineering course instead of business admins. My result is second lower and it is quite improbable I could pull it up to second upper during these remaining two semesters. I would like to have some advise if it is still possible for me to switch to banking/finance sector after graduation? one of the ways is through the management associate programme which I think is hard for me to be accepted since my result is not stellar. What should I do? your advise is really appreciated.

time and time and time and time again we're seeing this. haven't you seen previous posts or even do some googling on it? this question has been repeated time and time and time again and again and again. the answers and replies are always the same.

banking and finance because of what? the pay? of course you'll be able to move to the finance sector with your qualifications, 2.5k as personal banking associate. now you're gonna say that's not the kind of finance job you're looking for. you're more of the IB or trading or hoping to get some analyst role.

you made your choice when you chose chem engine, prolly because you thought chem engine pays well and you'll be able to get to exxon or shell as a chem engineer. but the sad realization is that they only accept cream of the crop and you, being second lowers, will not be able to get an offer.

please manage your expectations accordingly. and glam and pay isn't every thing in the world. don't think you'll get paid well through easy work in banks. the amount of crap, politics, sweat and hours you have to go through is unimaginable.

if you ever get in, i hope you won't come back here and post a new story saying you hope to change to other sectors cos banking isn't what you thought it to be.

yes i am sick of hearing engineers wanting to be bankers... i dun see anyone else like those from the humanities field making noise and wanting to be bankers... its always those from engine...

u want the true ans? people who studied in Finance are even finding it v hard to join a bank, why wld they wanna hire an engineer and one who has second lower?

Hi anon, seem like u speak from personal experience. Are you a Chem engineer who switched to banking? May I know your background? It is a
Generalization that all Chem engineers would want to go shell and exxon. The two giants can afford to hire the best but they too would have to put up wif politics,
Competition when promotion is performance based. It is very sad to see
You are pit against your own colleagues.

Well said. I always hear these new people come in talk big about being passionate about Finance bla bla, but ask them to do normal jobs in banks, they say "Oh no, I'm talking about the IB, PB type, not the usual ops work".

Why? Because they hear story about big bonus, big pay etc. Ask them what they think makes them so unique and cream of the crop to be able to make the big money and all keep quiet.

Crappy degrees, low class generic MBA, unsuccessful career in some other fields etc. A lot of them don't even qualify as "above average" and the same type are always asking about how to join a field where only the top 0.1% get the jobs.

Please, dream on. And for god's sake grow a brain, you think a real IB who is making 6 figure amount will be so free to advise you in an online forum? Some people.... haiz really duno what to say...

Oh man you hit them on the soft spot. Like I repeated many time in that Barclay thread and some other finance threads. Go ask ppl working in banks whats the environment. I think TS need to seriously wake up his idea that people working in banks = bankers = investment bankers.

For god's sake, TS should go think of some creative business ideas and become the next Mark Zuckerberg. If not just continue working like a donkey till you end up in the grave and hope that when you reborn again, you can get better grades and hopefully be a investment banker.

FYI. There are many ways to b rich, lawyers, dentists, IB are just one way. Other ways include starting own business, forex/shares trading, selling backside or drugs etc. All got its risks, dont assume being an investment bankers is w/o risk coz you will be the first to be retrenched during downturn. Also like what our friend say earlier, investment bankers wouldnt b here typing advice coz they earning millions and they got no time for losers like us hahaha.

(Like I say in another thread can we consolidate such nonsense questions under a sticky thread.)

I'm just a lucky local grad that got converted into a full time program in the back office of one of the BBs via an internship. My degree's in IT in one of the "big 3" uni, so you shd be able to guess what kind of back office work i'm gonna be involved in.

Am i speaking from experience? I would think so. Similarly to chem engine, a lot of IT grads I know dream of working in a bank. when asked why, all of them told me because of the remuneration and the glam of working there. No one ever said it's because it'll open opportunities for them to learn or it'll let them work in one of the most secured/robust/dynamic environment in the world. No one.

It's always about the pay and the pay and the pay plus the glam. It got me really sick because i interned in a bank. I agree that most of them pay better than those companies in the IT industry, but there's also those that pay much worse. To name one would be the bank that never sleeps, you guys can go check ard, the pay for IT is worse than DSTA or DXO or A*Star. And you slog like a dog for that pay. Are you ready to slog like there's no day and night for a salary that's lower or up to 30% than your friends in stats board putting half or less the effort compared to you?

Becos I worked in a back office environment. It was full of FTs. At one point of time, I was the only local chinese in the whole level. Go figure out how I felt at that point of time. Will you be able to tahan that throughout a long period of time?

If your answer is yes to the above questions, then I'll say go for it. But ask yourself how long can you last in that environment?

It's different for me becos i nv thought abt working in the IB/PB/FO line of the business. I'm happy with what I have in IT because I love it.

My advice would always be manage your expectations accordingly to what you have/possess. As the chinese saying goes, the more you expect, the bigger the disappointment you'll have.

Hey all, thanks for the inputs. I know my qns is kind of redundant. I know my expectation, I nv said in the first place in my thread that I would like to be an IB/ analyst or whatsoever. So is kinda confused me how the discussion lead to that direction in the first place. Even if I have to start from the bottom to join the industry, I am willing enough. Perhaps what you wouldn't like to do would give u he biggest clue for what you would love to do. The first few years Afta graduation would be try-out period. I would like to hear inputs from ppl working in the industry. Tat's all and how I could end up there.

Lots of SMU grads are now working in banks. I'm an old chap and I believe that all things equal, it's more financially rewarding to work in the finance sector regardless of whether it's FO, MO or BO.

It's not true that only people in banks get crap and suffer. The same stories apply to all jobs anywhere in the world. That said, I have many friends who are super happy about their jobs in finance and lead a super balanced life (they always claim they are super busy though - don't all of us?).

I am a third class local uni engine grad and went to look for banking operation job in a recruitment agency today.

I was told there are no permanent positions for my background and qualifications, and banks only offer contract to no experienced people like me. As such, the consultant said there is a $2400 private bank job opening (performance reporting) in the back office which is roughly 7-8 months contracy.

I would like to ask for people with my background, how much will be a fair salary? what you guys think of $2400? and what are your views on contract (7-8 months) ? and do you think I should find permanent one or do I stand no chance for permanent?

Thanks if anyone would like to express the market rate for back office operations with my background, as I really do not know which type of pay is acceptable or high or low.

Thanks to anyone who read this :)

OP I know how you feel there's no place for engineers in SG. The whole field is getting swamped by FTs

Well, I don't claim to know much about banking, but all I have heard about contract jobs is that they lead to no where and its very difficult to get converted to a permanent position.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question about a bank job.

However, since you are so young I'm going to give u some advice, take it with an open mind. Try to find a professional job somewhere else, in US or UK or Australia, where you will get a higher pay, and more importantly, your purchasing power will be much higher than in Singapore. Work life balance is likely to be better too. You'll be able to afford the necessities in life such as a decent apartment and a car much sooner. You'll find that things are cheaper. Since you are young, you have time on your side and its easier to get a visa as well.

Ah since you are young, and trained as an engineer (like me, and I have some time to type) I'm going to add to this. Even though you have 3rd class hons, that's not very good but its certainly not the end. You don't need to have good grades to be rich. All you need to do is
- don't spend money unnecessarily, save as much as you can
- try to find some alternative income stream such as a small business or trading or whatever to increase your overall income. Don't depend on salary alone.
- buy property and stocks during a downturn
Do the above and you'll be set for life. Easier said than done, but its a proven way.

Why do I encourage you to go overseas? I've been in the UK for some time now. Previously spent all my time in Singapore, and its only since I came here that my eyes opened. Previously I thought that Singapore is great, its safe, efficient, my family and friends are here, I'm not earning that much but I'm OK. I thought that life overseas is expensive and taxes are high. Then I came here and realised that
- 2000 pounds (4000 SGD) can buy you a second hand 1.8L car. No COE means you can drive that car as long as you want.
- 80,000 pounds can buy you a 2 bedroom apartment
- online shopping, groceries are cheap. Cheaper than in SG.
- its less crowded, and UK is very scenic
- tax may be high (around 30% perhaps for a professional), BUT healthcare is FREE, and there is pension

In Singapore
- COE alone is 50,000SGD now. Add cost of car and its close to 100,000. And I can only drive the car for 10 years. But I need a car to start a family!
- pay 500,000 or more for a pigeonhole to live in
- its hot, its crowded, its going to get more crowded
- no pension, healthcare is not free

You are probably better off working and settling down overseas.

This is even more senseless than your starting. So now we don't even know what you are interested other than you are willing "to start from the bottom" in the industry. Finance industry has countless jobs and all are so completely different from each other, what is the point of your thread then?

So 1 guy say he work in Risk, the other say he in Treasury, another say Shared Service, yet another say HR, an then another say Trading, next 1 in BD, another IB, another PB, another in CS, Compliance, Audit etc. How is that useful to your quest to "start from the bottom"?

Suggestion, just go look for a job in what you study lar, you sound just like the many people who start thread about want to join bank and know nothing about banks. If you had half a clue on what you want, you won't ask the question in such a hap hazard way liao.

I think part of the problem is there are a lot highly dubious "stories" put up by anonymous forumers claiming fantastic pay & bonus working in a bank. I seriously dun believe any of that BS since my theory is anyone who can make so much money as they say won't have time or interest in sharing stories in a BBS.

Some of it is also downright laughable for anyone who actually work before. All this hearsay online and offline just encourage more of these unhappy people in other fields to suddenly develop "passion" for finance and all want to be bankers suddenly.

I have only one piece of advice for the TS: take the damn contract position if offered!

let's have a look at what you have: a 3rd class degree and no experience. ok so you basically be nothing working for you and everything working against you. you were given a chance to prove yourself in the local uni; you blew it and got a 3rd class. yes, i'm sure you have sob stories to share, but chances are you screwed up cos you didn't care. and you have no relevant work experience, which means that you know next to nothing on the job that you are applying for, and is therefore of no value.

if a contract job is offered to you, take it. even if they pay you crap, take it. but that's not all. take it and be prepared to work very hard. if the bank offers you a contract job, your potential boss is actually throwing you a bone, ie giving you a chance to redeem yourself. So do all the **** that nobody wants to do, and do it so well the **** becomes gold. work the hardest, and learn as much as you can. everything ppl throw at you, so yes with a smile and then say thank you. and then deliver the work at the highest quality you can offer.

if you can do the above, i am sure that you will be made permanent. u wasted 4 years, and now is a chance to make up for your wasted years in 7-8months. you'll be a fool not to seize it.

people who don't believe banking pays well typically because they are not willing to sacrifice, and wants work-life balance. balance my ass. if you don't work your ass off when you are young, when can you do it? when you are old? the salary in banks starts low but shoots up exponentially if you prove that you are reliable and good. by good, i don't mean smart, i mean willing to do the hard work. if you are willing to work hard, making a 100k annual package will take no more than 5year. by then you will be at a base that is 40-50% higher than your work-life balance peers, and that's when you can decide if you want more, or real work-life balance.

It takes far more than just sacrifice long hours or do job sui sui to make it big in a bank. If it were just that, there would be truckloads of super high paying dudes in any bank now. The finance industry has no shortage of people chalking up long hours or doing sai gang, but how many really make it big in the end? For every 1 successful million dollar banker, there are probably another 20 who work just as hard, but are stuck in normal menial ops role after many years.

Devoting yourself to monster 15-hour work days during young and relax when you reach 40 rich may sound like a good idea at first. But what happens often is that when you look back at 40 yrs old, you find you loose the most precious commodity that no money can buy - time.

Sure, maybe at 40 your pay is 50% higher than peers, so? You lost out on non-professional social network, your family, if any, probably sux relationship wise since you are never at home, your health likely suffers due to overwork, you find out at the age of 40 you know nobody, nothing else besides work. What are you going to do then? Take a lower paying job and restart your entire life in terms of family, friends, hobbies, health etc? This is easier said than done.

I have nothing against people who made a decision to go for such a lifestyle in pursuit of money, it is their choice. But a brash dismissal of anyone who might harbor different preferences and outlook on life can only be done by someone who has a very inexperienced and narrow view of life.

You're a classic case of sour grapes. There are lots of high earners who have it all. Good life good wife good kids lots of moolah. I know you don't.

Thanks for your time to write such a thoughtful reply. To be honest, I would like to base myself in Singapore, although going overseas to work is a good idea

Thanks for your advice too :). I am not the threadstarter, noticed he studied chem engineering. I am another person who have just grad from local U who studied another type of engineering.

I will look to other job agencies to see if I have chance of landing perm operation jobs in bank and also to test for the market rate to see if its possible to get more than $2400. If not, I most probably have to try for contract positions.

Thanks again for this person, I am inspired by what you said. thank you.

Nobody is dismissing the pursuit of a lifestyle. I think you are too sensitive. Is your inferiority complex acting up again? In any case, there is no lifestyle without money, especially in Singapore, so i don't know what you are talking about. Plus, pursuing a lifestyle already when you are young and have no real lifestyle obligation? I think you are nuts.

Just stay mediocre as you are now, and by the time you hit 40-50, and your kids needs the money to go to a good university and you lack the cash, maybe then you will regret that pseudo lifestyle that you are talking now. Seriously, what is that lifestyle that you are talking about that you need balancing so much? I work 10 hours a day, have a great lifestyle, and probably make at least 200% more than you. That's cos i worked hard, while you try to mask your laziness behind the self-justification of "lifestyle".

Go sleep on it.

I meant to quote this post, not the above post, thanks for this person, what you said are inpsiring... thank you

Above poster: There is no need to get personal just because people have different view of career compared to you. Trying to insult people that they have inferior complex or how much more money you you make is rude and pointless.

We are all here to share our views and discuss our experience, so let's make it constructive. No need to shout here how rich you are, nobody can verify and nobody is interested also.

Just my 2C.

laying out facts is neither rude nor pointless. "rich" is a relative concept, and obviously you are interested or you wouldn't be in "salary.sg" forum.

As for constructiveness, your post comes across as the most unconstructive. Simple test: delete your post and nobody who read ithe thread subsequently will miss anything.

I'm here to share my views and experience, and at least I can substantiate and back my views. If you have a view, say it; if not, don't use forumer's time with your inconsequential post.

Oh yar, Mr high-flyer cum tycoon, wow I'm so impressed such a rich fellow like you who have a high flying career & great lifestyle is trolling the salary.sg to announce your richness.

Please, give me a break. Better use your time to send in more CVs, maybe still can get a job if try hard enough.

sour graph.

A lot of losers here always think small. When experience ppl come in and tell them what is like in the bank, common reaction is to sour grape and say not possible or kbkb about long hours or want work life balance rubbish.

That's why they always stuck to their jobs with rubbish pay, climb slowly and reach 5k monthly in late 30s only to get retrench when they are 40.

Losers

Arent you a loser yrself when you reply to this thread? Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, not against the law right?

So what if you r from the bank and earning 8k or 10k, in the end you are still a dog to your boss right? Just a more expensive breed of dog only.

Get a life and move on, if you are so good be the next Mark Zuckerberg (dont end up being Mark KuKu Bird hahaha), dont work for others.

Dog

What up with losers? Everytime they hear someone having a better life than them response is either sour grapes and deny and say cannot be true or to cite some super billionaire as if it makes them less of a loser.

IBs do hire a lot of engineers, but you have to have stellar grades from a top school: Cambridge, Oxford, imperial.

I studied Chem eng from tier one school and joined as a M&A analyst in a tier one us bank. It was hard and you have to network like crazy to get in.

Think about why you want to do banking. Money and glam will not last you through the long hours and nasty environment.

Why are bankers paid so much? Because there is no job security and you get fired any moment.

So why do you want to do banking?

urenger which
 

nobody has it all, kid. In time, you will know. you're classic case of pimply loser with too much time in your dead end, 30k a year job.

don't fret. just because you got a 3rd class doesnt spell the end of the world. i am a 3rd class chem eng grad from a local uni, and right after graduation i was hired into FO markets role. i did my internship in a top-tier IB though

its possible to switch. there are many ways to do it.

hello friend, bankers are now paid less than 5 years ago. to earn so much, you need to do sales and more hours. more wealth at the expense at your health. choose wisely. in my experience, banking is no longer glam anymore. media like this site and 154 put banking at the number 1 choice. the real winner is the media, they have captured your attention, spam you with ads and sell more subscriptions. you have been there, done there. big bonus is long gone. what's left is the crap that fresh grads is picking up.

The very successful ones are already retired in their 40s, enjoying life.

I'm now busy planning for my next holiday.

local uni grad from one of the toughest engineering courses.
Done, been in markets advisory / execution role for close to 3years.
Possible lah. Who cares about your honors? Lmao.

forget to add: and yes its true, banks dont pay well after GFC. If you come in, be prepared for tons of politics , job instability to deal with.

Follow - up
 

Hey i would like to know what you are doing now etc. I am also in a similar position as u were 9 years ago.

Details
 

Hey could u give more details on how your landed the role and in what division?