Originally Posted by Bean (Post 22477)

my boss last time 17-18 years exp in GLC, only getting M2 in jan 2008, only getting 6.9-7k by this july!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22487)

Your boss really CMI. Most grads can reach M2 in <10 years.

Originally Posted by Bean (Post 22490)

not really , as far as i know, i have beeen there in 4-5 years, he have been getting 'A' grading consecutively for the last 4-5 years...

not my boss sux, is the company itself, especially the annual/promotion increment really sux for list LOCAL MNC.

it just did not make any sense, that when you promoted, you only getting addition 4-6% for average n above average performer......'A' performer get 8% maximum(which is very rare)!!!!.... with additional workload for just $100-200.more:(..when you promoted!!!

I thought a promotion is at least +15-25% one

Originally Posted by Anonymous (Post 22468)

Haha, well you are speaking to a trained financial engineer so peddle your stuff somewhere else. I'm sure you like to think that your risks can be hedged away easily but seriously, there's no one MNCs like to axe more than an overpaid executive in his mid 40s, bearing in mind the widening gates and increasing pool of well educated grads/post-grads that will flood the markets here in the next 10-20 years. Sure, one can always fight to stay afloat, but default risk is greater than ever before, and will continue to increase. I seriously doubt contacts are the best bets in such cases. By 40s, you are too old and expensive to be rehired without a substantive paycut. Remember then, that while you are treading water, govt directors are leading easier lives without worry till retirement.

Govt risk free rate below inflation rate? are you sure? You seriously need to check your facts first. I hope this is not the kind of research you do in office otherwise you will get sacked. The annual increments in govt service for senior officers are definitely in excess of inflation, putting aside bonuses and promotional increments. And even that is an irrelevant point that you had brought up. Salaries don't grow perpetually and we are comparing steady states, ie assuming 2 persons maxing out at directorship. By then, their annual packages would have stabilised at a certain level (i.e. minimal growth) hence we are just comparing 2 bonds, one paying an annual coupon of 300k, the other im not sure, 500k? However the former is a treasury, 0 chance of default. We all love our junk bonds, but people still keep lots of treasuries for good reasons.

You also talk as though becoming an MP or sitting on a GLC board is easily within reach. Don't want to burst your bubble but pls don't get ahead of yourself. Certainly someone who expresses himself like you isn't exactly MP calibre. We all expect MPs to speak with humility don't we.

Originally Posted by Anonymous (Post 22468)

Haha, well you are speaking to a trained financial engineer so peddle your stuff somewhere else. I'm sure you like to think that your risks can be hedged away easily but seriously, there's no one MNCs like to axe more than an overpaid executive in his mid 40s, bearing in mind the widening gates and increasing pool of well educated grads/post-grads that will flood the markets here in the next 10-20 years. Sure, one can always fight to stay afloat, but default risk is greater than ever before, and will continue to increase. I seriously doubt contacts are the best bets in such cases. By 40s, you are too old and expensive to be rehired without a substantive paycut. Remember then, that while you are treading water, govt directors are leading easier lives without worry till retirement.

Govt risk free rate below inflation rate? are you sure? You seriously need to check your facts first. I hope this is not the kind of research you do in office otherwise you will get sacked. The annual increments in govt service for senior officers are definitely in excess of inflation, putting aside bonuses and promotional increments. And even that is an irrelevant point that you had brought up. Salaries don't grow perpetually and we are comparing steady states, ie assuming 2 persons maxing out at directorship. By then, their annual packages would have stabilised at a certain level (i.e. minimal growth) hence we are just comparing 2 bonds, one paying an annual coupon of 300k, the other im not sure, 500k? However the former is a treasury, 0 chance of default. We all love our junk bonds, but people still keep lots of treasuries for good reasons.

You also talk as though becoming an MP or sitting on a GLC board is easily within reach. Don't want to burst your bubble but pls don't get ahead of yourself. Certainly someone who expresses himself like you isn't exactly MP calibre. We all expect MPs to speak with humility don't we.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22509)

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22512)

Which MPs have spoken with humility? Vikram Nair or Baey Yam Keng?

Originally Posted by Anonymous (Post 22518)

What makes you think im still going to be in service. in fact that is most likely changing in a couple of weeks. However, even as i leave, i recognise the benefits of being in service that I will be giving up; that includes the benefits (had i eventually became a director/div director) such as the steady income stream and work/life balance, among other things. There is no need to put down others even if one picks a different route.

Again, there is no need to tell me about copulas and credit risk since im FE. The stochastic nature of credit risk can be simplified via conditional probability on gaussian RV, and the resultant integral can be solved simply using gauss hermite quadrature. Personally, i doubt people in the industry bother to model the forward interest rates stochastically. I won't if i were them as there is not much added value. A deterministic interest rate curve would be good enough. If things change, run again. So a normal PC will do. No need to be cheem for the sake of being cheem.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22534)

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

**********************

Its jokers like you who are losers.
If you are good, you can make your point using simple english. No need to strut your stuff around.
In your next thread, you even allude to the other party being sacked soon...not cool.
I suggest something to you in simple lingo- go improve on your EQ.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22538)

Don't bother about this Anoynomous chap, he goes around every banking thread repeating the same few jargons at every occasion to try & impress others he's some hot shot investment guy.

There are a few experienced people here here who give sound and sensible advice to others without spouting unintelligible crap.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22531)

I rest my case - you are voting with your feet by leaving the civil service.
A word of advice
1) to have credibility - practice what you preach
2) if you are going to be FE in your next job, the industry standard is to treat any optionality product longer than 3year maturity to have stochastic interest rates. Please dont act like you know all like you have been in civil service, otherwise you will get sacked soon.

Good luck to your next role

Originally Posted by Anonymous (Post 22548)

1. It's natural for me to express myself at times using some simple analogies because this is what I'm surrounded with everyday. if you don't understand, that's okay. Doesn't mean others don't.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22550)

What a joke. You call this gibberish below "simple analogies"?



What is the topic about? Civil service Director pay. How on earth this garbage above has to do with a Director's pay in Civil service?

And seriously, what's this nonsense about being surrounded with technical talk everyday? You mean your colleagues all talk like that? This is just a feeble attempt to impress others who have no experience in the finance/investment sector.

Earlier on we had quite a robust debate between some experienced finance professionals on the nature of the private equity industry, lots of insights and not once did either of the participants spout this esoteric nonsense you keep doing. IIRC QXP is also from investment banking, I never see him write in a deliberately confusing manner you are doing.

Originally Posted by ASHT (Post 22681)

Get straight to the point people, so after all this arguing, I just want to know is it worth it moving from the private sector to the civil service, in particular IE Singapore and SPRING, assuming I do get at least a 10% pay increment jumping from private to civil service. This is also assuming I want a career change and to make contacts that might turn out useful when I return to the private sector.

Peace,
AT
Don't get pissed with me, someone just tell me what to do!

Originally Posted by Anonymous (Post 22551)

i think you first need to read the postings carefully to understand the evolution of this discussion before spouting all these. I wasn't the one who started talking about copulas. By analogies i meant simple things like default risk and risk free rate. Yes we talk about this at work everyday. And if you can't differentiate between the nature of work of private equity professionals (mainly valuation of equity investments with no need for much math) then you ought to keep quiet. I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. And i got into this to defend the worth and benefits of being directors in the service.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22689)

I left a Stat Board many years ago for the finance industry and have been very successful. Unfortunately, I have interviewed and even hired civil servants like you who go out there with your civil service mindset, technocrat approach to problems and generally unforgiving nature. Let me tell you that it doesn't work...

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 22689)

I left a Stat Board many years ago for the finance industry and have been very successful. Unfortunately, I have interviewed and even hired civil servants like you who go out there with your civil service mindset, technocrat approach to problems and generally unforgiving nature. Let me tell you that it doesn't work. Except for a very small minority of quants with PhDs in physics, math and finance, being out in the finance industry is largely about EQ , while years in the civil service works to destroy that. To succeed outside, you have to think out of the box, be controversial, tell stories, be funny. Basically, forget all the training to serve your Minister well and not screw anything up. Forget about MX scales, increments and all that garbage as everything is about the next bonus. To succeed, you need an unstructured life, where you give up your friends, work 18 hours a day, fly all over the world meeting people and promoting things that you created. Its about you now, not the minister. Lastly, I find that people who leave the service before 30 are generally OK. 30-35 have trouble adapting, but many still have the energy. Over 35, they tend to be fixed in their mindset and usually don't work out.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 23514)

Can a non-Admin Officer hit superscale in civil service? Or is superscale only for Admin Officer? Entry level superscale supposedly earns $300k p.a. - that's very high for someone who is non-Admin Officer?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29375)

Hi,

may I know how is STB assist director salary range like? is it lower than other stats board?
for a mid career switch from pte to public...

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29532)

AD range is wide, about 6 to 11, depending on experience, but you would normally get the mid, why? say if you get 10, there is not much room to grow after a year and they will be forced to promote you? it is hard to negotiate as the range is determined by the job title... DD and D generally no diff, DD is like under observation before going to D, but some observation can be longer...

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29377)

8 - 11k depending on relevant experience

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29584)

don't think is that low, the range is wide more like 8 - 14k

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29611)

If Asst Director is 8 - 14k, so a Dy Director will be from 14k to what max?

Originally Posted by Incognito (Post 33905)

I'm curious, is there anyone here who is a non-scholar or happens to know a non-scholar, and this non-scholar has over the course of several years climbed from a fresh graduate position to a DD or D in a stat board/ministry? It would be really interesting to know what the climb was like...especially in terms of the number of years it took for this non-scholar to climb up there.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34031)

I know of one guy who climbed to DD in 7 years, which is relatively fast in that stat board. He is a non-scholar.

Originally Posted by Incognito (Post 34038)

Thanks for that info! Would you be able to share a few more details? Such as, what was it that enabled him to climb that quickly?

Assuming he joined as a Manager, then his progression would have been: Manager--> Senior Manager --> Assistant Director --> Deputy Director

That's 3 promotions in 7 years, which is rather fast considering it is a government agency. This guy that you know must be quite steady then!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34610)

Hi,

A few queries please:
1. How senior is an Assistant Director in Monetary Authority of Singapore?
2. What kind of pay one can expect in that role in MAS?
3. Do they hire foreigners( I am a US citizen looking to relocate to Singapore.)

Thanks in anticipation!

Regards

Conrad

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34610)

Hi,

A few queries please:
1. How senior is an Assistant Director in Monetary Authority of Singapore?
2. What kind of pay one can expect in that role in MAS?
3. Do they hire foreigners( I am a US citizen looking to relocate to Singapore.)

Thanks in anticipation!

Regards

Conrad

Originally Posted by Incognito (Post 33905)

I'm curious, is there anyone here who is a non-scholar or happens to know a non-scholar, and this non-scholar has over the course of several years climbed from a fresh graduate position to a DD or D in a stat board/ministry? It would be really interesting to know what the climb was like...especially in terms of the number of years it took for this non-scholar to climb up there.