Civil Service Pay - Director level
 

Hi

Everyone has heard about the high minister's pay, but I was wondering what do Directors/Assistant Directors at government stat boards get paid?

What scale is this??

When I was working at a government agency (don't ask which one), I got to know that a Dir's pay is about $10k pm. I guess now it's about $12k bah. I'm talking about "normal" ones.

High flying CEOs are different - some got promoted to become deputy permanent secretaries, who are definitely pegged to superscale levels, the lowest of which is already about $30k pm. That's why it's called "super" mah. :)

contrary to popular belief assistant directors don't really earn too much. typically can earn anything from 4.5K to 7K. for some govt agencies the range could be even wider

I believe the 30K pm is entry-level superscale for Administrative Service officers. Anyone knows what is the entry-level superscale salary for non-AOs?

My guess is 8k thereabout.

should be ard 12-13K. not all directors are superscale and definately more than $10
K because DD get up to $10k

Someone asked about the entry level super-scale for non-AO. It's about 11k.

Superscale means MX9 onwards right? How long does it normally take a non scholar to reach that position? Im assuming most just end up retiring at MX10 or MX11?

Entry AO superscale is grade 9, $18k pm, not $30kpm. With bonuses all in, maybe $25kpm on 12 month basis.

How do I get into entry-level AO?

usually they pick AOs from the batch of scholars who have been in service for about 4 to 6 years. to put it simply, you don't call them; they call you.

you can look it up on the admin service website.

just read in the papers today that there are only less than 300 AOs in the elite Administrative Service. since it's almost impossible for any of us be an AO ("you don't call them; they call you"), perhaps too much "air time" is given to these small group of people in this discussion forum.

I don't think it's impossible. It's just a very small likelihood that we can work towards achieving. If you're good enough, someday somebody will see it

mid career possible. but you must be already a gungho outside in the private sector. Nevertheless, you will be screen from PSLE to degree level. Every grades count.

AO though high pay, high stress too. If you like to dine with VIPs and never get indigestion, this is the right place for you..... :)

Pay of Assistant Director at one of the Ministry
 

I am just wondering what is the pay range for the post of Assistant Director at one of the Ministry. Is there a difference in pay for Assistant Director in Ministry as compared with Assistant Director in Stat. Board ? Since Stat. Board is under ministry.
Also the earlier post of AD getting 4-7k, may i know where to get this info frm?
Pls shed some light on this matter.

Thank you
Dude

This is a very difficult question to answer as guidelines for titles differ across Ministries and Stat Boards. 4k-7k is only a general estimate and not a catch-all.

Assistant director isn't very senior in the ministry. For some ministries, it's in fact an entry level title. So going by titles isn't very useful. But $4-7k range sounds about right. Usually ADs are more senior in stat boards as they don't suffer from title inflation.

Accelerated track?
 

If the AD is at entry-level and you are a scholar, does it mean the ministry is fast-tracking/ grooming you? What would this fast-track look like? Could someone shed some light on this?

If asst dir is just an entry level job title in some ministries... no special significance
however if u are a scholar, likely u will be groomed/fast tracked, regardless of your job title.

AD means diff things in diff ministries.

AD certainly isn't very big. There's DD (deputy director) between AD and D for most ministries.

But still AD is quite big shot in day to day ops, he/she runs the dept/division/branch etc on a day to day basis.

Much like a Captain isn't a very big shot in the whole scheme of ranks but the OC is pretty much boss in day to day affairs.

Anyway, digressed, it's more useful to compare pay of ranks (MX**) vs titles.

AD is entry at MTI, as a fresh grad u start at AD.

But of course you are also one of the lowest life forms there :)

How is that? In my stat board fresh graduates join as 'manager's, even with no working experience.

IE singapore?

I have a friend who is a DD in a stat board, on one of the professional tracks (law/econs) about 16 yrs or work experience, he has reached the end of his pay grade, earns about $10,400.00 a month gross. but be'cos of the professional track, his overall gross salary is about $230,000. he was a mid career hire. best move he ever made according to him. his life was stressful outside the civil service. now he has money and time. the trade off is bureaucracy, and a micro manager for a boss, but according to him he'll live.

job title vs. grade level
 

AD means different thing to different ministries due to work requirement - for ministries such as MFA and MTI, they have to frequently face their overseas counterparts so must have higher-sounding titles, not so much to fast track them. tehre are ADs from those ministries who move to other ministries and had to make do with much lower titles.

for grades, the salary is like this:

mx 12: 2550 - 5130 (AM, Mgr)
mx 11: 4100 - 7190 (Mgr or AD)
mx 10: 6350 - 10400 (AD, DD)
mx 9 (superscale): 10580 - 16540 (DD, Dir)

the above excludes the usual bonus and variable components, which would usually add up to a total pay of around 15 to 16 months of the monthly salary...

His profile, with NS, currently age 32 in 2011, TOP o level student with 11 A1 in his cohort, should be 2nd upper/1st class, so how much is an Asst Director in MOE is getting of the profile above

Just remember, in the Civil Service things are upside down.

Directors are the slaves.

The bosses are the Secretaries.

:D:D

What's Max Point refer to?
 

Can anyone please tell me what does Max point refer to for Stat Board? Does it refer to monthly gross salary or just the monthly basic?

Any has a rough idea how end of year bonuses will be affected in view of the economic climate ??

i know my mid yr bonus was abt 100-200 less than last yr's

eg. last year's end of year bonus was abt 2 months (13th mth + 1 mth for excellent GDP growth). this excludes PB bonuses of course. wonder how much lower it'll be for 2011 ???

anyone knows how much ie singapore is paying and whats the career prospects there?

is it the same as mti?

A Director salary typically range from: 8-14k, depending on years of experiences. (some high flyer who became director in his mid 30s would earn abt 8-9k, someone in the 40s would be 10k +. 14k - hard to achieve - for old birds who have been in that position for 10 yrs ++)

Dy Director (DD) salary typically range from: 5-10k, depending on years of experiences. (typical high flyer who became Dy director in his early-mid30s would earn abt 6-7k, someone in the 40s would be 8k +. 10k - hard to achieve for DD rank. for old birds who have been in that position for long time)

Asst Director (AD) salary typically range from: 3.5-8k, depending on years of experiences. (high flyer who became Asst director in his late 20s to early 30s would earn abt 4-6k, someone in the mid 30s would be 6k-7k). Typically do not have AD age beyond 40. they either get promoted or have already left for somewhere else.

private sector
 

sounds a little low, given that it's quite tough to reach director level. thought it would be like 20k at least.

i'm in upper (not top) management at an mnc, and already making 16k at age 35..

Hmm... I wonder why people still don't understand this.. This is risk free rate, obviously you expect return to be lower right. A director in his early 40s in the civil service who earns 15k, ie ard 250k/yr or more earns this rate for the next 20-25 years risk free, unless he does something funny. I doubt MNCs guarantee that kind of stability. The 16k u earn factors in the spread meant to cover the probability of your company defaulting on you when you are in the late 40s.

Because Directors in civil service are nowhere near to what is normally known as senior management in MNC. At best you can classify them as mid level manager.

Even if they transfer to any GLC, they are only about M3 - M4 grade.

That's pretty good. Including bonus, how much do you make a year?

In singapore, risk-free rate aka gov yield is lower than inflation rate, i.e in long term, you are screwed as you are a depreciating asset.
MNC does have a risk premium but you hedge it with transferrablility and diversification of skills set. Coupled with wide industry contacts, a optimal risk-ajusted return can be easily achieved.
One can easily structure their risk-return profile by taking taking quasi gov role e.g. Becoming a MP, sitting in a GLC board, etc

Sometimes taking no risk is actually risker than taking calculated risk.
Time for you to hit the books and relearn the subtle naunces of CAPM theory, instead of just implying out the default probability via CDS pricing model

Haha, well you are speaking to a trained financial engineer so peddle your stuff somewhere else. I'm sure you like to think that your risks can be hedged away easily but seriously, there's no one MNCs like to axe more than an overpaid executive in his mid 40s, bearing in mind the widening gates and increasing pool of well educated grads/post-grads that will flood the markets here in the next 10-20 years. Sure, one can always fight to stay afloat, but default risk is greater than ever before, and will continue to increase. I seriously doubt contacts are the best bets in such cases. By 40s, you are too old and expensive to be rehired without a substantive paycut. Remember then, that while you are treading water, govt directors are leading easier lives without worry till retirement.

Govt risk free rate below inflation rate? are you sure? You seriously need to check your facts first. I hope this is not the kind of research you do in office otherwise you will get sacked. The annual increments in govt service for senior officers are definitely in excess of inflation, putting aside bonuses and promotional increments. And even that is an irrelevant point that you had brought up. Salaries don't grow perpetually and we are comparing steady states, ie assuming 2 persons maxing out at directorship. By then, their annual packages would have stabilised at a certain level (i.e. minimal growth) hence we are just comparing 2 bonds, one paying an annual coupon of 300k, the other im not sure, 500k? However the former is a treasury, 0 chance of default. We all love our junk bonds, but people still keep lots of treasuries for good reasons.

You also talk as though becoming an MP or sitting on a GLC board is easily within reach. Don't want to burst your bubble but pls don't get ahead of yourself. Certainly someone who expresses himself like you isn't exactly MP calibre. We all expect MPs to speak with humility don't we.

my boss last time 17-18 years exp in GLC, only getting M2 in jan 2008, only getting 6.9-7k by this july!!

QFT, I do agree the annual increment in CS in really good. From the forum,
A can get 10-12% increment
B can get 8-10% increment
C can get 5-8% increment

Then my advice is to look for a new job fast. My general rule of thumb is - if ur boss' station in life doesn't appear to be something worthwhile to aspire towards, quickly find another job while u r still young.