Hello,

I haven't seen many responses to this question so i thought i'd give you my two cents worth.

I moved in-house after 2 years of practice and i've been in-house for a year plus now, so i'm at PQE 3+. My annual is now at 98k including bonus. I'll probably hit 100k in the next year or so.

Benefits are great and work life balance is even better. I can literally count with one hand the number of times i've stayed in the office past 6pm in the year+ i've worked with this company. Health, dental and insurance are also beyond generous (and extended to cover spouse and children, if it matters).

If you are at a big4 or international firm, this will most definitely be a pay cut. No question about it.

I advice you to consider carefully before taking the leap in house. If money is something that is extremely important to you, this may not be the route to take. I don't mean this in a judgmental way but more like if i were the sole breadwinner and had 4 kids to raise, i would not consider this option until very much later in my career (like when i have enough to pay off all my kids' uni tuition).

On the other hand, if you want a short break from life or to settle down and spend more time with your children, this is actually a pretty good option.

The down side is that work can be really boring at times. Going from practice to in-house is akin to your brain being on ten thousand cans of red bull to suddenly going back to normal again.

Happy to take questions! :)

Fully agreed. To add, the risk of pissing off the partner is dismissively low. Not everyone are on good terms with each other. The partner in firm A could be an ex-spouse of the partner in firm B. Or perhaps competing for business. Or perhaps bad blood during university.

You can’t be so unlucky to go to firm A where the partner is a spouse of the partner in firm B.
Life doesn’t work like that.

For what’s its worth, I know of a friend in law who has said he hates his ex (who is in law too) and he is going to take her down and the current bf (i.e. guy who stole his gf). Childish as it may sound but this friend is probably one of the top lawyers around and it’s possible he may just do that (in future). So yeah this is just one example but it shows you not everyone are good and chummy with each other. So don’t overthink just switch your tc!!

who cares.

truth is i passed my nus, i passed my bar and i got the job.

if you are a lawyer, i challenge you to come out and face me.

otherwise stop acting like one.

well it is an llb and not a ba english after all.

Why people expect lawyers to write perfect English in an informal setting?
So you mean lawyers have to talk to their family (wife and children) in some pompous sounding English and qualify everything they say?

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let me chime in:
- called ~8 years ago
- annual comp ~$15x k
- enjoying the work-life balance

anyone knows which US firms in SG pay the mid-atlantic/cravath rate? I heard some white shoes in SG pay even below MC rates..

Dechert is not a white shoe firm.

What about Latham, Sidley, White & Case, Sherman etc.? Do they actually pay more than MCs in SG?

U all ask this question... u can get is it?
How many grads won’t even be able to land such firms

As if you know the profile of people asking questions on this thread. If you don’t have the answer then keep your useless bitter comments to yourself maybe?

Seriously the "big 4" in singapore should really clean up their act. They are paying peanuts comparing to those mc and white shoe firms. If they want to be like a miser, dun call themselves "big 4"

Are you in a proper international firm that practices billing by the hour?
Big four does mainly Singapore law work and local companies will not pay if you bill them by the hour. Your junior associates can only bill at a certain rate in SG dollars.
For the “real” international, they bill in USD on a per hour basis and international junior associates charge out a minimum of US$500 an hour. This justifies their pay package.
But the work they do again is for instance, US securities or international arbitration where you can command such a rate for the kind of work being produced.

Fine. I am a double first oxford grad in a MC.
I don’t need to be justified in a forum.

As far as I know, the only US firms which pay Cravath in Singapore are LW and Milbank. Getting into one of these two is practically hitting paydirt. NY salary at Singapore tax rates.

Most of the rest pay mid-Atlantic rates (above MC scale).

I've heard of only one US firm which has tried to fob off el-cheapo near local rates onto their local hires, and it was for a new disputes practice they were trying to establish. Won't name and shame because it's always risky to spread rumours about an organisation with the determination and the means to protect their reputation.

In truth you're a first from kings, ferrying cecas around in a grab.

Looking for serious and genuine advice. I am a SG qualified lawyer with 2PQE. I am looking to go to Dubai to work as a lawyer. Pay package is AED700K a year excl bonus. Tax free on the total amount. Plus AED62K living allowance. 4x Business class flights to Dubai. Should I consider this viable?

I'm approaching the 3-5 pqe mark where I see an increasing number of my private practice friends jump in-house. Anybody ever had regrets going in-house? Thoughts on the in-house counsel track in general?

Then he must be pretty good.

Looks like KCL awards the least number of firsts out of all the scheduled UK universities.

See s://law.nus.edu.sg/about_us/news/2016/ComparisonTable-ClassofHonours.pdf

top 8% of **** uni is still **** lol

Is it an international practice?
If so, i would go.

Is your offer from a US firm? AED-USD conversion suggests that you are being offered the class of 2018/2019 or "US NQ" rate (usd190k). Are you only qualified in SG? If so, it's a pretty decent package, considering that it's tax free. The NQs in New York would be paying 30-40% of their salary as taxes etc. You will be able to rent a nice condo in a nice area in Dubai with the living allowance. The only thing you may want to consider would be the number of vacation days you are allowed - as it's common for people to grow homesick very quickly.

If you want to troll at least do it realistically. How is this even a plausible conundrum for you if factual? I call your bluff.

Also what's with all the KCL grads suddenly defending their overpriced toilet paper.

Let's get back to the topic of this forum.

"Law graduates can expect to earn £54,000 when they walk into their first job and most will see their pay rise by a staggering £25,000 every five years.
This starting salary is double the national average wage of around £27,000.
A study of 400 UK lawyers found that on average the job pays £54,000 for the first five years, rising to £76,000 for those with five to 10 years of experience. Lawyers who have been practising for between 10 and 15 years can expect to earn £100,000, while those with more than 15 years can command £181,000 a year."

"The research, by salary benchmarking website Emolument, shows that a degree from a top law school can push salaries up by as much as 25pc.
Graduates who read law at Cambridge can command the highest salaries after five to 10 years in the field with an average pay packet worth £99,000.
London School of Economics graduates can expect to earn £94,000 in the same period, Edinburgh University alumni can expect £93,000 and Oxford University graduates can expect £92,000."

s://.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11554820/How-much-are-lawyers-really-paid.html

Thanks. Yes SG qualified only. 25 days annual leave.

Lame. This is nowhere remotely applicable to Singapore. Btw you don't even need an LLB to qualify as a solicitor or barrister in the UK. So much easier to get a first in some other Mickey Mouse degree then convert to law so long as you come from oxbridge or the top Russell group unis

Lets talk about how pathetic local law firm salaries are

lol. it's a bit depressing to think or talk about it. but sure...

local law firms AND their salaries are a joke. doomed to fail in the long run. they constantly lose big business PLUS real talents to int'l firms. and some decent ones move to in-house also because the partners are too greedy to actually hire more assocs to stave off attrition. many old useless equity partners who got to where they are by pure demographic luck, plenty of liti partners can't string together an eloquent sentence together to save their lives. but all still unwilling to dilute equity share, unwilling to pay top dollar for quality law grads. they'll get what's coming to them in this dying local industry. can't wait hehehe

Let’s talk about big four. UK NQ is a third yearer associate by SG standards. A third yearer in a big four will take home $8k/month.
Called in Aug 20xx : $6k
Jan 20xx+1: $7k
Jan 20xx+2: $8k

Average performer gets 2-3 months bonus.

So effectively $8k x 14= $112k
Which is the equivalent of 62k pounds
Which is equivalent to what the silver circle is paying
And considering SG has low tax rate as compared to London 40% tax.
Make a lot of difference.

3rd yearer won't take home 8k after CPF.

Sorry for double post. The pay structure is also no longer 6k - 7k - 8k... it hasn't been for a few years. In fact, only 1 of the big 4 currently offers starting salary of 6k. You must be fairly senior in the industry/no longer with the Big 4 :)

Hi! I'm currently preparing for the Part B exams, and applying for TCs at the same time.

I've spammed applications and I would say that its near impossible for me to get something decent at this juncture (for January 2019).

I'm wondering if anyone has gone the route of working as a paralegal first in a mid-size/ big four firm, before applying for TCs in the next cycle?

I'm from a 2nd tier UK uni and I think this might be the only way for me to get a decent TC in this market. Thoughts?

hi, are you able to share what's the pay (annual comp) progression like at the other three big 4 firms?

thank you.

From what I’ve heard, big 4s these days start at 5.6k or 5.8k or so (August - Dec of year is being called). After that, for one and a half years it remains the same at 6.6k or 6.8k or so (jan to June the next year). So progression is much slower these days

If what you’re saying is true, then in Sg (considering all Sg law firms),
BM pays the best

Please don't mislead people.

(1) Forget the tax rate. Comparing apples with apples, we are looking at international firms' SG offices against Big 4, because that's really what Big 4 associates are considering (whether or not to move to an international firm within Singapore). Forget also the pound exchange rate and focus on comparisons in SGD. The more variables you throw in, the more easy it is to obscure the true state of affairs.

(2) Silver circle associates at SG Year 3 level are being paid approx $11,000. Magic circle pays approx $12,600. This is what they refer to as the "NQ rate" on the UK scale.

(3) Silver Circle and Magic circle bonuses also tend to be approx 2 months. Factor those in, and you get $154,000 for Silver circle and $176,400 for Magic Circle. Hows that look, against a measly $112,000 paycheck?

(4) International firms salary jumps are approx $1,500 to $2,000 a year. That's way above local firms' $800 to $1,000.

(5) There is no front load scam in international firms. What you see is what you get. An honest to God basic salary and bonus with a clear demarcation between the two. And this matters a hell lot when you are serving your 3 months notice at a Big 4 and getting paid absolute peanuts during that time.

(6) Exit opportunities: International firm associates are much, much more mobile than Big 4 associates, and get poached into far more lucrative roles if/when they leave private practice. I was approached by a bank with a $10,000 offer when I was with A&G. Two years after I made the jump to an MC, that same bank came back with a more senior role, offering $20,500. Difference much?

I'm one of those who made the jump, and I can see the hugeass gulf between the two. The difference is nowhere as negligible as you make it out to be. Don't mislead readers please. I feel strongly about this because I got smoked by people like you before, and missed out two years of international experience because I got conned into staying with A&G. It's a complete scam.

The vacation benefits sound decent too. Considering the probability of getting a similar Cravath scale offer in Singapore, if you are independent and can be away from home, I would say go for it, even if you intend to only be there for 2 years, and get NY called or English called while you are there. Your international exposure with this US (likely well known) firm will put you in good stead when it's time for you to come home, speaking from experience. Alternatively, you could also try to ask for a transfer back to Asia a few years later.

3674 and 3675 here. This isn't entirely accurate.

If you got called Aug 2018, 3 of the 4 firms will increase your salary come Jan 2019. The remaining 1 particular firm has a very lousy remuneration package, and keeps your salary stagnant until Dec 2019 (if I recall correctly).

As for starting salaries amongst the 4 of them, 1 starts at $6k, 2 start at $5.6k, 1 starts at $5.8k. Or it could be 2 start at $5.8k and 1 starts at $5.6k, I forget.

The progressions for 2, 3 PQE onwards in the 4 firms are also a bit weird. They're no longer linear. Basically, they're trying to trap you there to reach SA level (which is where the shortage is most severe across the industry), increasing your increments at the 3-year mark thereabout. Don't fall for it. Poster of 3680 speaks the truth.

Which firm in the Big4 delays NQs' salary increment till Dec '19?