Thanks for the feedback 😊

We understand the skepticism as we did pop up out of nowhere. However, we are confident that our positive intentions will be made clear with time.

We agree that there is an imbalance between employer and employee dynamics. We hope that creating a centralized platform to source jobs and industry information may help give lawyers some more bargaining power across the board.

Currently, we are being careful to not directly solicit lawyers to breach confidentiality arrangements with their employers. A general survey is something we will definitely consider when we are confident we can gather a large enough sample size like the Instagram page.

For now, we are relying on publicly available information and the kind, voluntary submissions by lawyers to our email at [email protected], with any information or corrections they think will be helpful.

We also believe we have fixed the white font on white background issue as of last week. Please let us know if the issue persists.

Have a good Sunday ✌️ For readers, make sure to check out t.me/sglegaljobs

Thanks for the feedback 😊

We understand the skepticism as we did pop up out of nowhere. However, we are confident that our positive intentions will be made clear with time.

We agree that there is an imbalance between employer and employee dynamics. We hope that creating a centralized platform to source jobs and industry information may help give lawyers some more bargaining power across the board.

Currently, we are being careful to not directly solicit lawyers to breach confidentiality arrangements with their employers. A general survey is something we will definitely consider when we are confident we can gather a large enough sample size like the Instagram page.

For now, we are relying on publicly available information and the kind, voluntary submissions by lawyers to our email at sglegaljobs(at)gmail.com, with any information or corrections they think will be helpful.

We also believe we have fixed the white font on white background issue as of last week. Please let us know if the issue persists.

Have a good Sunday ✌️ For readers, make sure to check out t.me/sglegaljobs

Thanks for the feedback 😊

We understand the skepticism as we did pop up out of nowhere. However, we are confident that our positive intentions will be made clear with time.

We agree that there is an imbalance between employer and employee dynamics. We hope that creating a centralized platform to source jobs and industry information may help give lawyers some more bargaining power across the board.

Currently, we are being careful to not directly solicit lawyers to breach confidentiality arrangements with their employers. A general survey is something we will definitely consider when we are confident we can gather a large enough sample size.

For now, we are relying on publicly available information and the kind, voluntary submissions by lawyers to our email with any information or corrections they think will be helpful.

We also believe we have fixed the white font on white background issue as of last week. Please let us know if the issue persists.

Have a good Sunday ✌️ For readers, make sure to check out t.me/sglegaljobs

Malaysian law firm still paying NQ RM4k. Haiz

Thanks for this good work. Hopefully, it has the outcome we are all looking for.

Especially for trainees, it is quite unfortunate to see them still making $2000. I think $2500 for one whole year will be absurd.

Firms can afford a thousand for each trainee to bump up across the board. You will know this will really not affect the firm's bottom line.

So it is just a real big F U to those newly entering the industry.

Then they wonder why no one stays around for long. Goodwill and first impressions are a real thing. Humans are reciprocal in nature.

I don’t disagree with you. But to be honest, even if it is $2.5K for a year, I’m sure most would stay and get the practising certificate. And even if you whine for the whole year, when the money comes in, as a legal executive, and then as an associate, you’ll just stay on. So there’s that.

This whole 1 year extended TC and pseudo-qualification (called to bar but not practising) is almost farcically comical. And agreed that it's a big F U to newly graduated aspirants to the legal profession. Throwing them to the mercies of the market, which we know will take every opportunity to squeeze every drop of blood from their trainees whom they view as mere units of labour.

Anyone who thinks this will be effectual in raising some nebulous conception of standards is exactly someone who I'd expect had ridden the gravy train in decades past.

irony
 

It's funny how the SG legal profession regulators are trying to be more like the UK - by extending the TC period to 1 year (1.5 years for overseas grads) and implementing a rotation system

While the UK regulators are implementing the QWE system, thereby removing the need for the traditiknal rotation-based TC (paralegal experience counts toward the QWE 2 year-period now)

Oh the irony

anyone knows how much is rajah and tann trainees' sign on bonus and whether laterals are entitled to this bonus?

To the group working on the sglegaljobs website, just want to let yall know that you guys are doing an amazing job and the industry really needs it. It's understandable that you guys are keeping your affiliations secret considering the taboo-like nature of salary in the sg legal industry and (maybe) risk of reprisal.

A centralised platform for salary information helps balance the gap between employees and employers. There're things like Blind and levels.fyi for tech, and the UK and US legal industries also disclose this information more openly. GJ and hope yalls can continue expanding it.

Similar qn, wondering for lateral NQs, will the firm usually also reimburse part b and call papers if stay on?

What’s more important
To be seen as smart, or to be seen as a high earner?

I’m asking this because in law Sch, the smart kids are always venerated
But when we head to practice, it’s always about who made partner first or who got poached by international firms first - and the thing is, these may not necessarily be the FCH folks

So how?

What a dumb question. Are you suggesting that being smart and being a high earner are mutually exclusive?

There are plenty of FCH folks who make partner earlier or get poached by international firms. But of course having a FCH is not the only predictor of how smart you are or successful you will be.

Who gives a ****? Only insecure people say this ****.

It really depends on your ability in practice. You can score well in exams but doesn’t mean you can solve the client’s problems.

In the uniquely Singapore system, getting good grades and FCH doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re smart tbh. more often than not from the ones I’ve interacted with they aren’t smart. They are just hardworking, kiasu and can memorise stuff well and regurgitate it well in the exam. Throw in one thing that they haven’t seen before suddenly brain stuck cannot think.

Which is why go out practice and meet clients all cmi.

Rising up in the ranks and being a good rainmaker is a matter of personality, and luck. On the latter, having the luck of closely working with or being mentored by a good client-savvy rainmaking partner as a role model helps in that you can emulate his/her client-servicing and rainmaking skills.

If you're a mere big firm cog in the wheel and you work closely with those high IQ autism-spectrum perfectionist type junior partners who know how to produce perfect work product but can't connect or talk to clients, then good luck. All you'll pick up are good technical skills and aut istic obsession to perfection, but zilch rainmaking skills. Find another mentor ASAP.

Clients want to feel serviced. They don't care that your work product is perfect. They wouldn't even be able to tell what is and is not perfect.

I’m afraid you have missed my point entirely - so it would do you well to skip out answering this question altogether; hope that others can continue to chime in with more useful anecdotes

This is my point exactly. For those who are smart and high earners, that’s great. But what I meant was, if some are so smart, why aren’t they earning that much? One of the above posters shared that this could be because some partners are good at technical skills but poor at bookmarking - thanks for that great answer

Nobody honestly believes it was to raise standards. The purpose was reducing the supply of lawyers given the influx of lawyers the past few years from less than reputable overseas universities. Unfortunately, because of SG's FTA with aussie, they can't just do the obvious thing and ban shittier aussie schools (like they did with the shittier UK schools a few years back).

agree that the restructuring was probably to increase barriers of entry, and we do have quite a protectionist law society/community, but hey don't **** on people from those unis man

Can anybody share how working in the corporate side of Quahe Woo and Palmer is like?

agreed. this whole ****ting on other law schs is quite tiresome. frankly practising law isn't a job that requires great academic ability, albeit at the high end the brightest are really bright. the average lawyer does not require some outstanding legal acumen, merely paper pushing or project management skills.

England & Wales has the right system IMO. Non-law grads can take the GDL conversion course to become solicitors. Heck, apprentices meaning kids who don't even go to uni, can take solicitor apprenticeships to qualify nowadays. Even Magic Circles are running solicitor apprenticeships.

You don't need to have attended some rarefied law school to become a lawyer. Let's stop with this self-aggrandizing illusion tt you need to be super bright or smart to be a lawyer.

SG should follow England's progressive example of allowing A Level grads to qualify as advocates & solicitors thru apprenticeships too.

Agree with you, but I thought that’s why we created a third local law school for those looking to serve in family / community law?

Agreed, as a case example, the managing partner and top-ranked lawyer at one of the international
law firms in Marina One is from the University of Hull?? and
he's a Singaporean

anyone of these forum members going to say he's **** because he's from a "low-ranked uni"?

no one gives a ****, only that you do your job well and bring in money

There’s no issue with that, we have been through this - lower ranking unis can produce excellent, legendary lawyers. But at the recruitment stage, in choosing a trainee or a first year associate, surely the HR would choose the candidate with better results from a better University. So if one is culled at the application stage, then that’s it.

not true
10char

Jumping ship
 

Hi all

Currently a 3PQE assoc (2020 called) in a small practice (non chinatown) doing corp and liti matters (very general, chapalang stuff, not high street, not that high value). I'd say I've become a general practitioner. Not SA, but basically given some SA responsibilities.

Salary slightly below 7k which I know is below average, below market. Juniors aren't paid well. Bonus is paltry. However, the push pull factors are equally balanced.

I have spent >1 year with current firm and am feeling jaded career development wise. Contentious and non contentious Workflow is inconsistent and I feel that I am taking on numerous hats. Even doing the seccie stuff as well.

However, management and I have started to have rifts of late. Support staff don't really give support and I find myself getting overrun by them.

I am planning of jumping ship later this year or early next before PC renewal. What salary should I start asking for? Am looking to do Corp exclusively.

As for prospects, which would be better Corp practices to jump to? I have never been in large firms before. Would it be better to leave before I make SA at current firm. I am expecting SA probably next year.

Maybe try TSMP before jumping to the B4? The former does cutting edge wall street work

are boutique corp firms hiring?

Your situation seems pretty tough. Any (good) reason why you stayed for so long?

Are you on LinkedIn? There are q a number of firms hiring - big and small firms

Recruiters also reaching out furiously

TC retention
 

how's the retention rates looking like this round?

Han Kun law hiring?

Hello, law student here. I am interested in litigation, and was wondering how do Chambers-Model firms in Singapore operate? Will it be beneficial to get a TC there or should I stick with B4 for training?

Why would people lie about their call dates? Don’t they know that info is available to the public? Actually I guess they wouldn’t cos they are dumb enough to lie about their call dates.

Can’t wait to expose them the next time this topic comes up in conversation

Flinder University Australia online JD
 

Hi Seniors,

Just to check the Flinder Uni Aus ( JD ) is 100% online,
is this recognised now in Singapore

Thanks

Aussie law schools are degree mills. Waste of money. Many grads end up as grab drivers etc

Yes it is, just check the SILE list of approved unis

also, just ignore this guy, if you do well there and get good extracurriculars and work experience, you'll do well

all the best!

Just re-read your post and you mentioned it's 100% online

You will definitely need to apply for an exemption with Minlaw and they might require you to obtain a Remote Online Learning Document from your uni

to which your Academic Chair/Dean will need explain why they are doing their course online.