I (29 years old) am planning my career, any advice?
 

hello friends,

i am a 29 year old singaporean guy who is looking for some advice.

basically i was always a top student in singapore, graduating top 10% annually from age 7 till 16. from 16-23, i wasted my time, enrolling into njc then dropping out (parents' divorce, young, didn't want to study, etc).

in NS, i completed a distance learning university of bradford degree in business with first class honours. for the first two years, i didn't bother to study much, just aiming to pass. the last year was honours year, so i studied hard and got a first. the marks for the first 2 years were quite bad. i still feel sad looking at those results on my transcripts today.

i have been working as a management accountant (earning 3-4k plus) for the past few years.

i recently took the gre and scored 160/160, good enough to enter some ivy league universities. basically, my point is, i am intellectually capable of passing the course if i do the work.

1. i have applied for a business masters in nus/ntu. i hope to work as an business analyst in a bank/company after finishing that masters. is this an okay career plan?

2. if nus/ntu doesn't accept me, i plan to head to monash malaysia to do my masters in business or mphil in business and work as an business analyst in singapore.

i can't afford to study in the uk/aus/etc even though i probably can be admitted.

long term career is to be an analyst. backup plan is to, well, go back to being a management accountant like now.

is this feasible?

I don't deny that you are probably smart.

What you need now is to get it certified from a good school. The local unis are fine.

I think an MBA is better than a masters though, and it might be something you want to consider. Work your butt off and do it well, and doors will open.

MBA is good if you want to focus on purely business related. however i felt it will be quite challenging for you to even enter because i just looked at the criteria, they were infact encourging people who are in management level already and every year quite a lot of people fighting for the slots, mainly sponser by their company. Another issue is they highly chance need a reputable uni cert.

and it is very costly. 62K i think..

While I understand the intent of stating your academic capabilities is not to boast, I am at the same time perturbed that you are still proudly saying such things as evidence that you are smart. You are a 29 year old with quite some years of work experience already; you should theoretically by now have figured out that what you have stated doesn’t matter. In fact chances are the vast majority of people who have exceeded you career wise are not as exam smart as you.

You might have started off with a weak hand in terms of academics having gotten your degree with an unknown lower ranked university, but the work smart people who started out with the same qualifications as you have probably moved way ahead career wise. Career progression is more often determined by work capabilities, office political skills, professional networking and business acumen.

I am not saying all these as a put down, but reading your narrative it gives me a feeling that you seem to think you are a smart guy meant for greater heights who is just let down because of having a non-local degree. Of course the natural conclusion for you is that getting a Masters from a local university is the antidote to solve the current career lethargy. I strongly suspect the reason of your lack of career growth is not that simple. As such, I doubt getting good masters (even if you can) is really going to be a game changer.

On to your 2 options: Getting a business masters or MBA in NUS/NTU might be possible, but after spending a bomb would you really be doing any better than you are now, i.e. drawing 3-4k as a junior associate? I doubt so. NUS/NTU MBA is relatively easy to get as long as you can pay. Students there tend to be mainly PRC and Indians or company sponsored locals (a lot from public sector) who are relatively early in their career and holding positions that are very junior in nature. The more prestigious eMBA or masters may be more useful, but you will not qualify due to lack of academic qualification, work experience and seniority.

I think chances are if you get a msters, you will still end up in some junior analyst or other back office role in a bank that pays around what you are getting now. Of course you can argue it better equips you to get promoted, but I’ve always felt that promotions are much dependent on other real factors than academics. Higher academics make a key difference in highly technical/engineering roles, but have limited value-add in general business analytic in a support department.

As for getting a masters in Monash Malaysia, I strongly advise against that. It isn’t going to put weight into your CV and that’s just throwing good money down the drain. You already have a private bachelor’s certificate, getting another private masters from Malaysia will still rank you behind a local university bachelor grad.

Strangely, there are quite a significant number people who are intelligent, but did not manage to excel well in the career aspects. When I compare myself to all my ex-classmates who graduated with 1st class honors, many of them did not do as well as we all expected them to do (when we graduated). I am not sure if it is largely due to the Singapore educational system or the working environment.

One of my friends is a very intelligent girl, got a scholarship to study in NUS in mathematics followed by Masters. Unfortunately, she is not a very confident person, in spite of her intelligence. At 33, she is doing reasonably well (earning $7K/month), but when she compared herself to her classmates who didn't get any scholarship, she felt that many of them did better than her. She kinda feel that she has wasted so much time studying.

Personally, I came from polytechnic and took a part time degree. None of them have good results (all Bs & Cs), because I was spending more time "living" my life more than studying. Yet, at the same time, I am doing significantly better than my peers, career wise.

It is not clear how ambitious you are, but, in my opinion, MBA is really meant for networking. It is not meant to spend a significant amount of time/money to get a piece of paper. If you are too young, an MBA might not add too much value or move your career in a significant level. I have a friend who did a MBA from Insead (not cheap) when he was much younger. Now, in his 40s, he is working as a PMO and living in a HDB. There is nothing wrong with living in a HDB, but in my view, if you spend 6-figures to get a MBA, you should have uplift your career a lot more significantly. On paper, his educational profile is extremely impressive, with all the top grades. But in real life, his job is not as impressive.

Up to now, I only hold a degree from RMIT, and I would only go for a MBA, if I want to move to a C-class level position. Otherwise, I don't think I would waste my money / time to study for a MBA. I have managed to be reasonably successful (earning $300K/annum) without having a prestigious degree. You would also realized that there are a lot of successful individuals or individuals earning reasonably good money, do not always have the best education/prestigious education. Grades are completely unimportant and irrelevant, once you are on the right track.

If you are ambitious, instead of spending money on a MBA, why don't you look for enrichment courses to improve your social skills, presentation skills, networking or practical aspects that will help you to deal with senior management in your organization? All career paths eventually leads towards being a senior management or C-class position in a large organizations. Having the knowledge, will only ensure that you get a job. Having the skills, will help improve your chances to move to the next level.

dun understand ts intentions. 3-4k is consider not bad for a pte uni at 29 yo, just work hard and slowly move up. why still wanna waste $$$ on mba? the banks are not interested in hiring a 30+ yo guy to fill up a grad level analyst even if u have mba.

MBA is relevant if you intend to work at Google, Yahoo, FB all these. during my job seeking, i experience them preferring an MBA for their management post (simply a manager position). I do agree with someone on top that say it wont really matters if it is on a business route as it will play a much more significant meaning if you were to go to a highly technical/engineering/ technology company.

I happen to catch this part of the thread. You are an interesting person and I would like to know more.

A RMIT graduate at a C-level position earning 300k ... that's amazing! Those from prestigious schools only reach VP. And it even gets rarer to go from 200k to 300k. I hope you can share, what line, what company? Base on my known, I would guess:

- Maybe started at a fund, worked your way up to Portfolio Manager had a good call in the markets. 200k base with 100k bonus.
- I can't see MNC banks front office role. I doubt I spotted a RMIT grad there.
- Running your own business but you said you're C-level so you're probably working in a place bigger than a SME.

I'm interested how you got where you are now.

He didn't say he is holding a c-level position. he say he would go to MBA IF he intend to go c-level position. i guess is 300k annum (if real) is his own business.

Yup, an MBA at the local unis cost 60k thereabouts. That is why I didn't apply for an MBA anyway, I don't have the money.

Thanks for the encouragement my friend. Treat you to Kopi if you send me your FB or mobile :P

Your views are quite insightful.

I have been sending out over 100 resumes trying too get another job but to no avail. I didn't even get a reply from anyone. I did get a few replies but they were from overseas employers.

I have been stuck in the management accountant job for 3-4 years now, I don't see a way up in my company. I don't mind starting as an analyst job in a bank and working my way up, after 5 years, I can be an associate and earn about 6-8k that is pretty good for me. Will banks take on 30 year olds as a fresh analyst? I don't get the too old thing as I still have 32 years of working life inside me assuming the retirement age is 62 and people do quit jobs often anyway.

You mentioned you earn 300k/year, that is about 20k+ per month, which is what a surgeon/CEO earns. Even a lawyer would need to work for at least a decade or so and make partner to earn that amount.

You are easily within the top 5% in terms of income in Singapore. Do you mind sharing with us your job/career path and how you did it? Are you in sales?

Exactly, we are all interested.

Even a doctor who gets all 'As' and does everything right and becomes a surgeon will need at least 10-20 years to earn 200-300k post grad. Ditto for a lawyer.

Maybe if you are a top salesman you can earn that much, otherwise, it is out of reach for us earthly beings.

That is correct, I will only do my MBA if I plan to go for a c-level position. I'm working in middle office (but not operations) in an international bank. $300k is based plus bonus (1month only). Honestly, I doubt I will earn this kind of money if I run my own business. I don't think I have talent in running a business.

I probably stay in this field and try to move to business management (non sales related), if such a chance comes along.

How many years have you been in mid office?

May I know which role as well? I can do some back checking on my end to verify the numbers.

I am also 29 years old
 

Hello, I am also 29 years old. here to seek some advice.

I have a local degree from NUS, business. been working for 2 weeks. My past 2 years I have been doing IT support, mainly phone support.

I would like to move to doing business as I have interest there and I have a degree in that. My question is are there any courses that I can take with $5,000 to up my market value, seeing that I only have phone support experience.

thank you.

Wow local grad doing phone support?! You should really move out of the job ASAP.

I suggest that you agree to take a serious pay cut and start off in a graduate entry-level role.

AFAIK, only directors make that much money in banks.

that's if you are not a top dealer/sales/trader (front office)....

Just to clarify, I am not the same guy with that 300k claim, so I can't answer for that.

I suspect is something is stopping you from progressing - it could be poor interview/cv skills, lack of professional network, problematic presentation or interaction skills, not being able to adapt and play the corporate game etc. It is unlikely that having no masters is the main impediment, management accountant is a pretty common standard job, you don't need masters to progress.

As for banking, the problem isn't about you or your POV - it's all about demand and supply. You might think 30+ years old isn't that bad, but what about the bank's POV? Every year they have hundreds if not thousands of fresh grads in their early 20s from local university, ivy leagues to full time private universities applying to get in. Most are probably with honours as well.

Even within this new young cohort they can only pick like 5% while discarding the remaining 95%. In what way would someone who is 30+, has a general local MBA, a lackluster career in management accountancy, no direct relevant experience appeal to them?

Also it is highly unlikely that after joining the bank at 3-4k as an analyst you will be able to double your salary to 6-8k in 5 years. That's like a 15% increase consecutively for 5 years - very unlikely unless you are a high potential MA. Bank normal increments average 4% p.a. with 10-15% if its a promotion year. You do the Maths and you will realize your expectations in this area are too far off from reality also.

My advice is to look at other areas that I have listed for competency gaps and see if you can improve them. Banking all your hopes that spending more money to get a masters that you can barely comprehend due to lack of senior responsibility and does not even provide you with useful professional networks is just setting up for disappointment.

It's very traditional thinking that MBA is to move into C-level positions. Nowadays there are EMBA for that but those are just a farce, to charge the company ridiculous amount of tuition fees since the candidates are sponsored anyway.

The true value of an MBA is the network you'll make. Head to a M7 MBA, you'll most likely meet the next CEO of a F500 company. Next, you'll get to reset your career, many prestigious companies like big3 consulting, Google, Banks and etc have dedicated MBA program, you're looking at recouping your tuition within your first year of working here. Total tuition fee for a 2 year program is about 150k USD while an MBA grad can expect between 120k to 150k before bonus at a consulting firm and even more at banks and PE.

nobody here is talking abt some abstract elite mba for F500 CEO that doesnt apply for 99.9% of the forumers here. do u have any insights to share for nus/nut mba?

I think you are 100% correct, especially about the part where schools charge ridiculous fees.

Traditionally, don't IB analysts go back for their MBAs after 2 years? If you have an MBA, you go back to IB as an Associate.

Just to check, analysts in banks (back office included) do start off at around 4-6k right? After 3-5 years, they should be making 6-8k? Investment banking (the superstars) analysts do start at 7k-20k? Am I correct with these figures?

I got these figures from numerous salary reports from reputable companies as well as asking 2 of my friends in banking. Working as a research analyst (research companies and countries) in a bank/private company/civil service is one of the routes I am looking at.

Why are you so hung up on such things that have nothing to do with you? Don't kid yourself mate, with your kind of experience you have no hope of getting into these banking jobs.

With only a LOCAL degree, you can expect between 3.5k to 4.7k in the back office depending on the bank. IB generally starts from 9k while a select few offers 5k onwards.

And when I say local, I mean public funded universities. Private grads generally do not get full-time offers to join a bank program, they tend to be in 1 year contract at 2.8k.

By the time you reach associate, 6k to 8k is about right if you came out from their grad program. IB, I'm not sure, I think most people can't take the hours and leave for PE or something

Also, depending on MBA programs, usually 1/3 of the graduating class will move into consulting. This is only looking at US programs, you do have some programs such as NYU and Columbia having more grads moving into banks due to their geographical location but generally, no one does an MBA to say they wanna go into IB after that.

And to TS, unfortunately I think your DL degree is your Achilles heel here. No respectable MBA program will take in a DL graduate. An average masters at a tier2/tier3 is probably your best bet.

thanks! that sounds just about right from all my research. i will just get my masters done (hopefully get decent results to improve my profile) and try, if it doesn't work out then try the civil service or one of the numerous private firms that require analysts.

happy to make 6-8k by 35, buy a small apartment, get out of the low-income ghetto northern neighbourhood (within a 2 blocks radius, there were serial stabbers, terrorists detained by ISA, molestors and lots of robberies) and save some money. many of my peers from a special secondary school are making that amount now (at age 29). the neighbourhood is really unlivable. grew up in bishan and people were much nicer there.

i have been ranked top 10% annually at work (among a few hundred employees) and got a few raises but from discussions with my boss, i can sense there is no long term future in my company.

Get real lah, with your kind of grades and work exp what sort of Masters you can get? That Monash Malaysia you mentioned earlier?

And like that want to get make 8k shortly after graduating in a bank? Also 8k is a Senior Assistant Director in civil service, for a local uni grad to reach SAD by 35 is already consider above average and you want to be a SAD as a Monash grad mid career hire?

And please not that nonsense about you being top 10% in exams and work. If you are really that hot shot you wont be stuck at where you are now.

Really you sound like some sort of deluded huckster. That nonsensical tirade how desperate you are to get out of a HDB neighborhood which you describe until like a Pakistan taliban tribal area is just plain disturbing.

Seriously get out of the house and start consulting real professional recruiters instead of sitting at home online fantasizing. You already admit you sent out hundreds of applications and got nothing, not even an interview. Go and seek professional help, don't be stubborn and narrow minded everything just masters/banks/big money.

You are right about the CS part.

But if he really does get a masters from Monash. 6k to 8k by 35 is very realistic in a foreign bank especially.

nope, not realistic at all. first off most foreign banks are not interested in a monash malaysia grad even for back office unless we are talking about the usual joksters like RHB, Maybank or some asian bank offshore branch.

secondly, even if he can get in, maybe for someone who started off as a contract 2.8k in early 20s & slowly work his way up after that then yes realistic to get 6-8k by 35. but it is not realistic for someone to join in his early 30s then expect to straight away catapult to 6-8k by 35.

in fact if you look at the industry, the most common finance jobs pte uni grads tend to end up with are either consumer/sme sales in banks or back office work with outsourcers like Citco, Marsh or claims ops with insurance co. this is the hard truth i'm afraid.

thanks, i am just a normal guy trying to break into the 5k-6k level and open some doors to the 10k level later on in life. i already earn 4k or so and it is not a problem getting a job at the same income level.

i have no doubts that most people look down on me and my lousy hdb + lowly intellectual/job background.

luckily, i was recently interviewed by a top 30 uni for a scholarship + stipend for post grad. i am not sure if i got it, but i was shortlisted and interviewed. results out next month.

look at nus's FAS's phd candidates, it doesn't just apply nus, but to many top unis in the uk/aus/etc.

NUS Department of Economics

there are 3 singaporean looking names in this list out of 30 phd candidates. i am not sure if 3 of them are singaporeans, because, i reckon one or two can be malaysians.

you got tons of people from the university of no 2 in shanghai, university of wuhan, university of bangalore, university of vietnam capital, in these universities, on scholarships even.

now, i got a pair of 160 for my gre, mostly 'a's for o levels, and a first class hons from a uk uni

these guys got, maybe, 150/163 for their gre, and a degree from university of saigon or manila or itt or etc.

in fact, nus/ntu set up master degrees in chinese specially for chinese students. and at very low prices as well. this tells you how much they love their uni of wuhan et al graduates.

draw your own real life conclusions if you will. no doubt it is hard to gain entrance, so i will just cross my fingers and hope that some chinese/nigerian/russian/mogolian guy lets me have a chance at starting a family!!

i am just a charles and keith, not a gucci.

thanks, i am just a below average guy trying to earn more money to start a family and live in a better place. believe it or not, i was interviewed by the police for a serial stabber case (stabbed like 20 women and the police were getting desperate for leads). and there are 2 terrorists who lived next to my hdb block (now in isa). and a rape case next block as well. you may be privileged to live somewhere safe but this is the truth about my neighbourhood, one of the most low-income region in singapore.

firstly, i don't find rhb or maybank to be 'jokesters'. i consider them to be reputable companies and i will gladly accept a job with them for the right price and career opportunities.

i guess they are too 'common' for you but they are okay for me.

secondly, i know of uol grads getting into jp morgan singapore.

thirdly, monash is a public university, ranking about 70th in the world.

fourth, i am earning 4k thereabouts now. i have no problems getting similar paid 3-4k job offers, but i am trying to go up a little.

fifth, i used to be a recruiter in my first job (i recruited for some of the biggest mncs in singapore). i earned 2k basic and quit within 6 months. i may still have my CEI (recruiter license). that's another story. :P

Guy, where do you stay?

Also, RHB or Maybank will not pay you 5k to 6k by 35 based on your current trajectory. And the guy is right to say, these are jokesters company, you will see very few fresh local graduates entering them. The lowest they will go is probably UOB, ANZ.

The SIM guy at JPM probably got in through connection or he was from another bank where he made very good sales.

By top30 uni, which ranking are you looking at? TIMES? Forbes? Financial Times?

You seem to feel that you are highly intelligent but somehow is restricted in your career by your certifications and wish to boost them up.

Unfortunately, you still got no idea what you are doing. In reality, you are only very average in terms of intellect. But your inability to see that actually hinders you and cause you to waste lots of time and money pursuing something already way beyond your league.

Why are you even taking GRE instead of GMAT when you are trying to take an MBA?

Ppl from Banking Management Trainee programs and Management Consulting programs do go take their MBAs, but it is only the Ivy League MBAs.

Nobody cares about an NUS MBA. Look at the class profile - ://mba.nus.edu/student-life/116-class-profile

No one from USA or many other developed nations are even in NUS MBA class.

Even when everyone who matters tell you that NUS MBS is useless, you still die die want to go in.

Even for a poor grade NUS MBA, it is highly unlikely you will make it in. You simply do not have the experience, skills, networks and educational qualifications to get in.

Let us imagine that best case scenario for you, where you successfully get an NUS MBA.

No bank is going to recruit you as an analyst even. People will recruit a first class honours or extremely exceptional 2nd upper guy as an analyst.

You are already spoilt goods. Even Maybank will not want you.

My advice is to take your CIMA and ACCA which is more relevant to you and try to get into big 4 and climb from there.

Actually I don't think an NUS MBA is that bad.

I know a number of them personally who got offers at the major IBs. And the average GMAT is about 650, still a half decent school, especially for someone in his profile.

Do you honestly think he can get into an Ivy League MBA based on his profile? Those are reserved for top tier management trainees, MBB consultants and IB people.

The job market has undergone significant transformation since the Financial Crisis back in 08. Salaries in banking for newbies and those who were junior at the time of the crisis will not reach the bubble levels that preceded the crisis. The high paid bankers are the ones who have been in the game long enough (entered by 2002/3 at the latest) and who have not been axed yet. This will take time as they have the experience and know how about the business. But they are a shrinking population. However, salaries will not go to those levels for a while.

If you don't reach 100k per annum by the time you are 30, there is little chance you will make much more than 100k per annum by the end of your career. This is why it's important to study the right degree in the right school. Of course this does not apply if you come from a wealthy and well connected family.

Good luck OP. No once can advise you, but you need to push through very hard right now to make sure you have an upside

All I hear is big talk from the TS boasting of what a hot piece of potato he is, but in reality let's take a step back and you can see what sort of character he is by the type of things he thinks is worth mentioning as "achievement"

1) Boasting about being top 10% in primary and secondary school
2) Boasting about being FCH from a never heard of distance learning certification
3) Boasting about GRE scores
4) Boasting about being top 10% at his work place, but strangely the company is not willing to pay him much or promote him
5) Boasting about recruiting for the "biggest MNCs", but again strangely these MNCs are only willing to pay him 2k <- I suspect this is just a staffing/sales agent job with an outsourcer

Are these the sort of things any accomplished 29 years old degree graduate (regardless of which university) who has worked for some time would mention proudly?

No wonder he isn't landing any offers after sending out >100 applications.

Thanks for the very kind advice that makes a lot of sense. You are right, people like myself who are not wealthy cannot afford to make mistakes in life to have an upside.

Actually, I mentioned clearly that I can't afford a local MBA, and I didn't apply for any MBA. I also mentioned that doing research for a bank is just one of the fields i am interested in.

i already earn around 4k, it is not a problem getting a job around this level. if i wanted to earn 5-6k i simply have to work in this industry or stay in this company but i know from testing my boss there is no future in this company i.e. i will be stuck soon. so i am looking to go back to school and find a new path.

despite that, you can see the usual posters keep going off on a tangent about ivy league mbas and ib jobs.

HAPPY CNY TO ONE AND ALL!

walaoeh, you sound like a decent guy who just got off on the wrong footing. imho i think your main issue is not no masters, but having a too high opinion of yourself. you seem to be an average guy with average intelligence, but keep thinking you are top 10% and benchmarking against top 10% in high finance.

you should focus more on trying to move up in your current profession rather than waste time studying and restart from scratch again. so far it seems you have no real passion in banking and getting an entry level job as an analyst doesnt seem too far from your job as a management accountant. i disagree that management accountant is a dead end job, plenty of people have moved up the career ladder in corporate finance, so it is definitely not a 4k dead end job.

My apologies. I actually went back and re-read your first post. You certainly have not said that you have applied for an MBA.

Any normal, reasonably intelligent person will assume that business masters = MBA. Because that is the only business masters worth applying for.

What you have actually applied for is actually a non-MBA Masters in the NUS/NTU business school.

That is certainly the most kum gong thing ever.

You have 0 chance of getting into a bank, even as a bank teller.

TS, your thinking is not logically structured and you were the one going off on a tangent in all your posts. You keep telling us irrelevant stuff about where you stay, how police interviewed you, that you did a recruiting job for a while, how well you did in your primary and secondary school and so on.

Also, you keep bragging that you are earning 4k plus and that you can probably get it up to 5k or 6k which is your objective of going for a masters and joining a bank. So why waste your time?