You only need 5As to enter the btm Ivy League schs. What's the big deal? There are so many 5As and above students in local unis. Many of them stay in Sg because of cost and they don't want to be bonded.
BB FO recruiters know that there are talented students in local unis. I never heard of anyone with >3.9 gpa or >4.8 CAP with relevant work experiences not being called up for penultimate year FO internship interviews. Penultimate yr internships are the main pipeline for their graduate recruitment. I think you guys dont even know how the HR processes work or what the standards are. |
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One: 5As with 70% percentile SAT, mediocre essays, uninspiring letters of recommendation describing a student who mugs everyday in the library and no CCAs, no way he is getting into any Ivy. So it is not just 5As. This is a well known fact by those who spend time with the application process. If he had just 5As AND a national award in a science competition, maybe he creeps into the bottom of the Ivy's. For those aspiring Ivy leaguers out there, take note. Two: A >4.8 CAP with major in Health Science and internship doing credit analyst at a small 10 employee first isn't getting called up by Goldman's IBD. You probably know this. I'm emphasizing that there are tons of > 3.8 GPA not getting what they want. |
I have friends working in the NY offices of BBs, and a good number have commented that Singapore is well regarded for being very strong with technicals.
Aside from that, I don't think all the top students are flocking to banking these days. At least, not to IB. There is more of a work-life balance thingy going about, and I see a good number venturing into other areas... so it isn't fair to assume that all first class honors people are applying for IBs. |
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No. Health sciences referring to pharmacy or nursing? 4.8 CAP nus pharmacy student should be able to secure a penulti internship interview with most BBs, even though the boutique credit analysis internship sounds pretty pathethic. Unless u are talking abt applying for the actual job or the faculty is nursing? For smu, >3.9 gpa with relevant internships is almost confirmed you get a penulti interview at BB FO and they assess you from there. Actually I heard of lower gpa ppl getting in too, but tts besides the point. Their tests are rigourous enough to filter out the people they really want, not just taking in someone because he has an ivy league sch on their resume, or discounting someone who is smart but went to a local university. The penult internship is the interview for the actual job. It is a rigourous proccess, if you are talented you will not be weighed down by the university you came from (unless you don't even make the first interview round, if so you prob wont make it through the interview rounds anyway). I'm not saying its easy either way, but people are creating illusions that being in an ivy league is such a high BTE that the smart people in local unis find incredibly difficult surpass. The barrier is way lower than many ppl think. Recruiters know how to target the smart local uni students and nobody cares if the HR in US doesn't know that Singapore even exists because the HR managers that recruit here are in Singapore. We are talking about getting a BB FO entry level job at Singapore guys, not wall street. |
Totally agree with the above post.
I had very close friends with CAP scores ranging from 4.0 - 4.49 (second upper) from NUS getting into HSBC, MS and JPM FO IB. LinkedIn is proof of their existence. Or better yet, go and speak to your colleagues from local schools. If they are honest enough, they won't lie about their CAP score or be ashamed about it. |
I guess I'm being shown a more accurate picture. Or we are not considering the percentages of those getting BB FO within their group, one being Ivy and another being local >3.8 GPA.
Recruitment, and you'll soon find out in most things in work, is a percentages game. You can only push the percentages in your favor but the percentage doesn't go to 1. Harvard, 4.0 GPA, impressive CCAs but with a lousy attitude or lack of personality, the MD across the table can't imagine him rocking the show with the associates. My stance is that coming from an Ivy league school, and the other top schools (Stanford, MIT) for emphasis, has its pull in pushing the numbers in your favor. And I haven't yet talk about other factors - alumni. A team ran by Ivy League kids might want an Ivy League guy to join them. Rightly or wrongly, this is the case. This is recruitment. This is life. So while I accept all those stories of local school grads with >3.8 GPA getting BB FO jobs, isn't it more accurate that we consider how many such grads applied. For this group, maybe only 10% got the penultimate interview. If you're from Ivy League, you'll have a 50%. Then yes, it'll all up to you now. Quote:
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Actually, given the crazy grade inflation in the US (particularly at Harvard), I am not many recruiters in the know would be impressed with a 3.4.
In local unis, you really have to be pretty good to get a first class/summa. Besides that, I think one point you might be missing is performance on the job. This means, who can perform after securing the superday interviews? I would have you note on this front that local grads aren't subpar. Let's use one IB in Singapore as an example: Take JPM IBD summer internship of 2014, 2 NUS, 1 Columbia and 1 other kid from some elite overseas uni. In the end, all got offered except the last kid. For 2015 summer internship, it was 1 nus, 2 LSE and 1 upenn. Only the NUS kid and the upenn kid got the return offer. If you are really in the industry as you have claimed, all of this is easily verifiable. |
JPM last two summer internships took four and two kids. Damn, I'm so glad I'm still employed. Banking does seem it's shrinking. I was telling my friends that we are so far removed from the GFC that regulations should relax. Guess not. More so with what's happening in the last five days.
Anyway ... You have the statistics, I have the anecdotes. If you're talking about averages, I think we're both right. If you talking about statistics, then I can't argue with you. Neither you can with me. Quote:
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The statistics don't lie. I tried to forge this argument using SAT but NUS and SMU doesn't have SAT stats. Nvm, we'll use GPA. Average high school GPA for those enrolling in Wharton undergrad: 3.94 (://.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=67) Tell me, is the average of those enrolling in NUS undergrad say a A, B, B for A levels? Quote:
Take a while to browse the Linkedin of associate level employees in the following companies. Do the Singapore offices. Blackstone. Blackrock. Oaktree Capital. Fortress. Templeton. Pimco. I bet you for most, if not all of them, you'll find top US school graduates out number the local graduates 3 to 1. |
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I think the pool of talent most of us are referring to are those from local business schools, or those doing double degrees. In this case, most are straight A students, which I am sure you can agree with. On that note, you might say a Wharton kid is still better because of his outstanding CCA/national awards and you know what, I give you that. Probably, but not always is my stance. Quote:
Let's assume that most of these kids are fair and decent minded people who want to pay back the debt incurred for their overseas studies. How can they do it? Not many ways right? IB is one of the fastest and easiest ways for them to do so. This is unlike your average local school undergrad who has a greater degree of leeway in choosing his/her career path, hence explaining why you see a good number of FCH in places like O&G, FMCG etc. So my point to you is that yes, while you're right that many overseas uni graduates dominate the banking and financial services industry in Singapore, the caveat is that if you think hard about it, it is about because they put themselves in such a situation. So probably 90% or more of overseas uni grads would apply for FO roles as compared to say top 10% of local uni grads who might be interested in the industry. |
touch of reality
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I didn't say the top 10% of local unis is as smart as the top 10% of Harvard. My point is, your intelligence matters much more than your degree. And no, almost every student with >3.9gpa or >4.8cap and relevant experience will be called up for the 1st round of the penulti internship interview, where they will then compete for entry to the superday. I don't know if your 1% refers to getting the penultimate interview or the actual job. Or that not even 1% of the entire cohort including uninterested students get the actual job. Well, 1) More than 1% of the cohort in my course gets a job (not internship) in BB FO 2) Not even half of the >3.8gpa in my cohort even intends to work in BB FO 3) My degree course is highly related to banking Combining 2 and 3, I assume that the percentage of students in other courses that are interested in BB FO is even lower. And a good percentage of those who want to be there eventually get there. Quote:
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The number of nus/ntu/smu accountancy students applying for big 4 audit outnumbers those of private unis. Basically, if you're from a private uni, you're a rarer commodity which gets selected more!!! These banks have no school or gender quota to meet bro... I think you meant to argue that Ivy League students are selected more often than local students because the degree is more prestigious? It's okay, I don't like to make personal attacks... I assume that you were distracted when you wrote that. |
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