Trading (Crude oil)
 

Hi all,

I have just recently graduated.
I am totally clueless about the job scope of a trader but hopefully somebody can enlightened me.
I tried to google some of the question but do hope somebody can correct me if I make mistake.

1) Is trader a sale-based job?
• I have the perception that trading is not really a sale-based job.
Sale related responsibility are done by broker instead.
Am I right?

2) What is the differences between trader and broker?

3) Do trader do physical and paper trading?
And what are being done in the trading process?

4) What is the general starting pay of a junior crude oil trader?

5) Which are the famous and big companies that are focusing on crude oil trading?

Thanks in advance for those who reply to this.
You're awesome!!:):):)

typical young punk.

want big bucks but not willing to put in effort to learn, just asking to be spoonfed information.

we don't want your type in our industry.

it is an old boy's club for a good reason - keep the annoying ones out

Let me pretend I am in the industry too. Stupid young punk. Lol.

Haha yea a crude oil trader making millions of dollars a year is gonna come to some anoynomous forum to teach a young punk who just left school how to make his millions.

hahahaha

true.

hey
I am a diamond and platinum trader!!!! nice or not?

Sorry if I'm may offend you...
But isn't forum a place to share and learn new knowledge?
Every one gonna start out somewhere...
Ain't you too quick to judge the person for not putting enough effort to learn?

everyone gotta start somewhere is not an excuse to start from kindergarden.

Hi, poor TS.. I'll try to help a little here.

The reason why you're getting so many negative remarks is because it is extremely difficult to get an Oil Trader role. You can interpret it this way: "If you don't even know the basics (as per your questions) by now (that you have graduated), you shouldn't even think of being one at all (considering that it'll be a far-fetched dream)".

Saying that, i wouldn't say that it is impossible for you to be an Oil Trader in the future. Again, I will emphasize that it will be extremely difficult to be one.

An Oil Trader is a trader - you trade oil. For example, recently, the market has seen many Oil Traders taking the opportunity of today's low prices by: Buying oil at spot ('today's price') and storing them in Oil storage tanks, with the view that prices will rise in the future.

Some of the big names include: Trafigura, Noble, Mercuria, Cargill, Glencore and Vitol. I will emphasize again that the Oil Trading Graduate Roles in these companies are extremely competitive to get into. I'm trying not to discourage you here, but it is to your benefit for me to be honest with you: Your chances of getting into these roles if you apply to them now (considering your current knowledge) is next to none.

If you know that you really want to be an Oil Trader, these are some of my suggestions of the possible paths that you can take:
- Read extensively about the markets and apply to those roles once you're proficient.
- Enter the support roles in those companies, and network your way up.

These paths do not guarantee you a Trader role, but it will increase your chances of becoming one in the future.

Good luck.

in short, TS aint getting no oil trader job

Thanks for the reply!! Really appreciate it!!

Anyway, never in my first post said that I want to join Trading.
I also have no intention to craft my path towards trading.

It was just that an job agency called and told me about this particular role.
I was quite surprised by their brief descriptions and of course I am skeptical about it as my impression of trading as well is quite a competitive and lucrative role.
I just need someone to verify some of the information that I have misinterpreted.
Never had I thought there exists a oil trading firm that will have to go through job agency for recruitment of trader.

Never had I thought that my post might actually offended some of the possible oil traders.
I'm deeply sorry about it.

But at the same time I'm really glad that there is someone who is willing to share his/her knowledge with me.
You're an awesome fella.
Once again thank you!
Hope you have an awesome week!!

dude the guy is not even sharing anything specific to oil trading beyond generic advise on how hard to get in. the fact that you can find that useful just shows how far the curve you are away from.

Operations executive
 

Hi do any of you knows how much does an oil operations executive earns? Appreciate your help or insight on this!!

Depends on experience, basic not high - 5-6k range, bonus use to be good 9-12 months, but now lower due to low oil price.

I'm not in the business of oil trading. But I'll answer this question in the domain of currency trading, which is my speciality. I believe this is applicable to the trading part of oil trading.

But before that, maybe it's better that we learn the distinction between the buyside and the sellside in any sort of trading business. There are traders at both ends.

Sell side: makes the market, matches orders, quotes a price for the client. Almost always should be market neutral, meaning they don't have a view on where the market is going. Just think of them as 'the market' where people go to get an order filled.

Buy side: Goes to the market, the sell side, and buys or sells products. They trade based on their function - speculation, hedging or currency overlay. You can think of them as have a view of the market, and expressing that view by risking their capital.

The broker that you mentioned exists in the sell side. Now for the distinction between trader and broker, both of which are at the sell side.

Essentially, the trader manages risk. They match orders to ensure that they are market neutral. Because of this function, they have a feel of what prices need to be quoted for various products to 1) earn money from a spread 2) stay market neutral. The broker than takes this price to the his clients on the buy side when 1) his client wants to trade or 2) suggesting to his client to trade. Think of the broker as the middle man between the market / trader and his clients.

Exception: seldom the trader IS the broker depending on how the sell side trading business is run. Usually if the business trades a lot of products, you'll need a trader to focus on the pricing and have another guy, the broker, do the quoting to the clients. Also, another term for broker is dealer, which is used when dealing with institutions.

Oh i see... What if there's no experience? so the bonus currently should be around how many months? I am having an interview soon and I do not know what to quote for my expected salary as I am keen to learn and not quoting an unrealistic salary.

Thanks for answering me :)

No experience and you tried applying for oil operations exec role? That's very daring. Even if you get in, hope you don't find it too tough.. It's no easy job... And pretty amazing they even allowed a person with no experience to come for interview ..

That said, based on your profile, perhaps $4k? Bonues in a normal decent size oil trading house perhaps 3 months (inc AWS if there is)...

But then again, I might not get it. There are so many people applying for this role. Though they said there will be second round of interview till today no avail. :/

Anyone know how is total oil Asia??

I am in oil and gas industry. Just got bonus 5 plus months. Base 4.5K.

Hi, are u in the trading line? mind saying if u r operations, risk or trader??

Hi I am in the trading line, risk function supporting the traders.

That's quite high given the oil price now! R u in a big firm? How long have you been in this line ?

Yes I have a good performance grading, I think this is considered good given the environment now. Yes I am in a big firm. Been in this line for close to 4 years coming June.

Are you in the trading arm of those oil refinery companies like shell etc or a commodity trading house? Mind sharing your experiences and how the industry works? What r the diff between working for a trading house or oil refinery companies etc??

Different poster, but I doubt guy on top is from big oil. I am familiar with trading org in BP & Shell, they don't pay traders that sort of salary & bonus. His pay level if big oil is for trade operations support which is no different from other support departments like finance/it/marketing etc.. Ops support is not considered oil trading, they are more back office providers for traders who are theinternal customer.

Is risk management considered as back or front? I have a friend who said he was in the front office but isn't a trader...

Unlike investment banks or trading houses, big oil does not organize itself as front or back office. To them there is only trading (i.e. those on the good pay & uncap bonus) and others which include any support functions which drawn ordinary pay and bonus.

One can be anal and insist that being a support is FO because you provide supporting services to traders, but at the end of the day if you are drawing 5k with a few months bonus just like any other support function, then does it matter whether you call yourself FO or BO?

The only reason why some folks are hung up on defining themselves as FO to outside world is because of this general perception of prestige and high pay. Internally say in BP or Shell, if you tell another co-worker you are a risk analyst in FO they will give you the "har what talking you" look.

I am this poster. I was from banking and then went to oil company. Oil industry is much more dynamic. Yes we dont differentiate BO or FO.

how well does big oil pays?? i know someone in risk and his starting pay was 4k plus, and he wasnt even in shell, exxon or BP. Does support function really pays so well too? If big oil pays a fresh grad so well for a support function, it seems like a better choice to work in oil than banks!

mind sharing your job scope? i believe risk has market, credit risk etc??

I think you need to be careful with such generalizations. Banks are very homogeneous, i.e. good times all good pay good bonus bad times all retrench, pay cut, no bonus together.

Oil industry is very fragmented, big oil like Exxon & Shell is good times very big bonus bad times not so big bonus. Exxon has 5 months guaranteed for middle & lower levels, Shell has 3 months guaranteed + 3-5 months performance bonus. BP is not that good but still better than most industries. On the other hand there are many other oil MNC/local firms that are very volatile and average payers.

If you ask me in terms of pay package for support department jobs between foreign bank or big oil, big oil pays better. But if compare foreign bank with a normal oil mnc then I would think banks pay better. General impression, of course there will be exceptions here & there.

so how much should one expect for oil & gas?? for support functions like risk? how much is the annual package and increment?

Yes..I am in credit risk. I work closely with traders and also other functions like legal, compliance, finance.

some ppl here are also very funny. how abt actually applying and getting interviews & offers first before keep asking about pay & increments?

Those who keep asking are unlikely to get an offer in the first place. For competitive industry like trading in top bank/MNC I suspect those that can get offers already done the required internships and establish the necessary connections before graduating.

can anyone shed more lights on the prospects of risk management? not traders.. gotten an offer but have no idea on oil industry or trading. is the prospects of risk management good?

go banking MO side better, RM is not critical to oil industry & u will be treated like finance/accounting.

The base salary that they r offering is quite good (at least to me). But I'm not sure what is the long term prospects of it and the supposedly industry average for this kind of role.. a lot of info r on traders but I'm not looking to become one, and I couldn't find much info on risk

which co. and how much is the offer? u say like dun wanna say then why bother to ask...

anyway u take a look at those graduate survey lor, if ard 3.5-4k for local deg should be abt average lah.

hi all, i'm an accounting grad and have no idea abt all these trading

however i got a call from my agent who wanted to rcmd me for an interview as an accountant at a commodity house

my question is very simple, what's the difference between a commodity house and an oil company like shell and bp? a commodity house doesn't drill for oil right? so they buy it from who? and sell to who?

thank u ^^