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-   -   Career as Teacher (https://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/1758-career-teacher.html)

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250498)
Above median based on what?

National average? Or university cohort average?

If you want to compare national average, compare with income-less students, retirees, the non-grads, any uni-grad will easily earn above median salary after a couple of years in the workforce.
If you want to top 30% income earners (uni grads earn more in general), to live the lifestyle of those at the median, the 50th percentile people, yeah, sure, they earn more than enough to median lifestyle (4rm hdb flat in non mature estates, no car, 1 or 2 kids at most)

But if you compare with peers of similar profiles, just among the uni grads, can even fine tune to comparing with people from your course, with similar gpa or honours, teachers are not well paid at all. Below median even.
Salaries taken from smartwealth.sg.

Median salary by Age range - for a male in their 30s, median salary including employer contribution is between $ 5850 - 7020. Most teachers in that age range would comfortably fit within that range. Iofcourse, this does not differentiate by education.

Now if we look at a breakdown by profession, the same website puts median professional salary
as $7722. Now this would definitely be skewed by professionals in their 40s and 50s who skew the Median upwards.

So, looking at those 2 numbers, in what world can we say that a teacher in their 30s is earning below median income? I've brought some stats to make my case. For those who insist that teachers are underpaid, what do you have other than 'trust me bro'

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250421)
JC female teacher here
Inform your RO and SL

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250345)
Agree, assuming both husband and wife are teachers, with kids won’t have much money left at the end of every month, which is going to pose problems in their retirement life.
Yea... for husband-wife teacher couples, money matters aside, can't even imagine how tiring it is leh. long working hours, emotionally spent, come home still have to spend time with their own kids etc. some of my colleagues who are mothers suffer from mom guilt cos they don't have energy and physical capacity for their own children when they get home.

is the $ worth the exhaustion?

that day i saw this book on a teacher account on ig. went in to get a copy cos sounded interesting. my favourite part is chapter 6 - importance of secondary income ha ha

sharing here in case anyone interested
s://.kobo.com/sg/en/ebook/getting-to-geo-3-how-to-survive-your-bt-years

happy first day of term tomorrow~

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250563)
Yea... for husband-wife teacher couples, money matters aside, can't even imagine how tiring it is leh. long working hours, emotionally spent, come home still have to spend time with their own kids etc. some of my colleagues who are mothers suffer from mom guilt cos they don't have energy and physical capacity for their own children when they get home.

is the $ worth the exhaustion?

that day i saw this book on a teacher account on ig. went in to get a copy cos sounded interesting. my favourite part is chapter 6 - importance of secondary income ha ha

sharing here in case anyone interested
s://.kobo.com/sg/en/ebook/getting-to-geo-3-how-to-survive-your-bt-years

happy first day of term tomorrow~
s://.kobo.com/sg/en/ebook/getting-to-geo-3-how-to-survive-your-bt-years

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250559)
Its between 150- 200k TC per couple! This is the general range of a couple in the early 30s who are both teachers. Why are you only assuming a single income household, when the OP was about a teacher couple.

Not enough retirement income? Lol, please do the maths when it comes to just cpf savings please. And then add on the savings from take home income. That's more than enough to cover the needs of retirement. It's just that people are just dooming instead of admitting that they're bad with money.
I think previous commenter was talking about the fact that they have to support their own parents as well. Eldercare is not cheap if parents have specific needs that a regular helper cannot fully meet. And if they have no siblings to split the financial load with, it's no joke. Their spouse may have their own responsibilities to their own parents.

All this is even before they have to manage their own children, if any.

Unregistered 25-06-2023 02:58 PM
True nowadays median income will still house, feed and clothe you and your family, but it will not guarantee you can retire at 65.

You MUST have secondary income streams. Passive income is the gold standard, but tutoring on the side is not too shabby either.

Unregistered 25-06-2023 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250554)
To hit 100k without connect plan, assuming 16 month package (13th month, 1 month variable bonus, 2 months PB which is very generous, given that C grade is around 1.5 only), this will require a monthly pay of $6250.

Promotion increment is around 10% only. Annual increment is around 2-5%.

Unless you are scholar, or somehow very stellar performance, can get Bs and As every year and promote like clockwork, and the economy performs well all the time, it is very unlikely for a guy to hit 100k by 30.
At 30, the people who can start work the earliest are the NIE degree batch, who graduate at 25. They can clock 5 years of work experience.

Those who need to go through pgde, can only commence work at 26, 27 (depending on how long they have to do contract teaching). At 30, they would only have 3-4 years of experience, barely completing their bonds.

Those from poly backgrounds can add an additional year.

Furthermore, excluding the salary revision last year, the annual merit increments and promotional increment, and also pb quantums, have been cut the previous 3 years between 2020-2022. Which means even if you can promote quickly, the increase in salary is lower than the pre-covid cohorts.

Also, slowdown in promotion pace also means that salary growth is slower.

All in all, 100k without connect plan by 30 for male is extremely unlikely, unless there are other salary components which are not disclosed
thanks for shedding light, really helpful.

what would you say is most reasonable and plausible TC for a 30M? Based on your variables, I guesstimate it to be ~90k.

Unregistered 26-06-2023 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250560)
Salaries taken from smartwealth.sg.

Median salary by Age range - for a male in their 30s, median salary including employer contribution is between $ 5850 - 7020. Most teachers in that age range would comfortably fit within that range. Iofcourse, this does not differentiate by education.

Now if we look at a breakdown by profession, the same website puts median professional salary
as $7722. Now this would definitely be skewed by professionals in their 40s and 50s who skew the Median upwards.

So, looking at those 2 numbers, in what world can we say that a teacher in their 30s is earning below median income? I've brought some stats to make my case. For those who insist that teachers are underpaid, what do you have other than 'trust me bro'
sorry, not the same person whom you're arguing with

just that since we're going into numbers, it's probably highly relevant to go deep into the working hours as well, in order to ascertain whether the salary is indeed comparable.

the most accurate way is to go into the salary per hour based on average weekly working hours.

the ambiguous thing here is that there may be great variation across different schools. but my guess is that a week's worth of work is probably around 50 - 60 hours? this includes any other work done at home e.g. marking, setting papers, lesson planning, consultations, communications with parents etc.

Unregistered 26-06-2023 09:30 PM
If things are really as rosy as many people here are saying, I wonder why the attrition rate of GEO3 and GEO4 officers is so high... hmmmmmmmmm

Not all ex-teachers start printing money once they jump to the private sector, but the fact is, the earnings per unit effort/unit time worked as an MOE teacher is a VERY low bar to clear, especially for recent cohorts. Don't talk about GEO5 HOTs from the previous era.

Unregistered 26-06-2023 10:05 PM
Year 3 GEO3 here. Clicked apply for SH and HOD roles in workpal just to test the system. For SH/ST roles, the error message was “subgrade does not meet minimum requirements” while for HOD, it is simply “you do not meet the minimum criteria for this position.” Based on this, I can assume my CEP is probably SEO1. Can use this to check your CEP

Unregistered 26-06-2023 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250560)
Salaries taken from smartwealth.sg.

Median salary by Age range - for a male in their 30s, median salary including employer contribution is between $ 5850 - 7020. Most teachers in that age range would comfortably fit within that range. Iofcourse, this does not differentiate by education.

Now if we look at a breakdown by profession, the same website puts median professional salary
as $7722. Now this would definitely be skewed by professionals in their 40s and 50s who skew the Median upwards.

So, looking at those 2 numbers, in what world can we say that a teacher in their 30s is earning below median income? I've brought some stats to make my case. For those who insist that teachers are underpaid, what do you have other than 'trust me bro'
[s://cdn-blog.seedly.sg/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/10140442/Median-Monthly-Income-By-Occupation-in-Singapore_-Here-is-What-People-in-These-Roles-Are-Earning-1-1024x538.png[/

Unregistered 26-06-2023 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250636)
Year 3 GEO3 here. Clicked apply for SH and HOD roles in workpal just to test the system. For SH/ST roles, the error message was “subgrade does not meet minimum requirements” while for HOD, it is simply “you do not meet the minimum criteria for this position.” Based on this, I can assume my CEP is probably SEO1. Can use this to check your CEP
Smart. You know the system. Usually, it’s really difficult to have CEP of SEO2 and above until you are given some role. Or unless you are a high flyer scholar.

Unregistered 27-06-2023 12:53 AM
Fajt
 
Hello,

I am thinking about converting to an FAJT from full time MOE teacher but have questions I hope some can help out with.

I hear that FAJTs work the hours from start to end of school curriculum time i.e 6.5h, and are paid per hour. I also hear that the rates differ after the first hour for some reason. Then There are other pieces of info adding to the confusion.

- What is the difference in rates paid to a GEO 4 ($6000) vs a GEO 5 ($6000)?
- Can one apply for FAJT while in service?
- What is the typical length of a FAJT contract?

Thank you in advance!

Unregistered 27-06-2023 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250636)
Year 3 GEO3 here. Clicked apply for SH and HOD roles in workpal just to test the system. For SH/ST roles, the error message was “subgrade does not meet minimum requirements” while for HOD, it is simply “you do not meet the minimum criteria for this position.” Based on this, I can assume my CEP is probably SEO1. Can use this to check your CEP
Lol it just means that you do not meet the min requirements to apply for leadership positions. Need at least to be geo4. Nothing to do with your CEP. Anyway most teachers' cep is geo5

Unregistered 27-06-2023 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250644)
Smart. You know the system. Usually, it’s really difficult to have CEP of SEO2 and above until you are given some role. Or unless you are a high flyer scholar.
People are still spreading this misinformation about checking your own CEP? Wow..

Unregistered 27-06-2023 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250636)
Year 3 GEO3 here. Clicked apply for SH and HOD roles in workpal just to test the system. For SH/ST roles, the error message was “subgrade does not meet minimum requirements” while for HOD, it is simply “you do not meet the minimum criteria for this position.” Based on this, I can assume my CEP is probably SEO1. Can use this to check your CEP
Possibly, but not always the case. There are other data fields coded into HRP that constitute minimum criteria for applying to a certain level of appointment. For example, factors like years in service, time in grade or perf grade history may or may not also affect one's eligibility for certain things.

This method is only a way of determining whether one is eligible or not, but it is not a reliable way of determining CEP.

Unregistered 27-06-2023 07:15 PM
Anyone knows if work-life balance is better for teachers in international schools (eg HC intl/SAIS/GESS/UWCSEA/SJII/CIS)? I can imagine there might be a bit less focus on academic achievement (?) maybe there’s less pressure on teachers to produce results there?

Unregistered 27-06-2023 08:02 PM
Question about CONNECT plan. I am due to receive my connect at the end of next ar (Dec 2024).However I was given a D grade in 2020 which was my full year of teaching. Till now, I am still GEO2 and P says I am due for promotion next year. (was supposed to be 2021). My question is, will my D grade obtained in 2020 affect connect payout? Will I still get it at the end of year 4?

Unregistered 27-06-2023 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250693)
Question about CONNECT plan. I am due to receive my connect at the end of next ar (Dec 2024).However I was given a D grade in 2020 which was my full year of teaching. Till now, I am still GEO2 and P says I am due for promotion next year. (was supposed to be 2021). My question is, will my D grade obtained in 2020 affect connect payout? Will I still get it at the end of year 4?
If you got D grade that year, you would not have received the CONNECT deposit for that year (only). This means that the total balance in your CONNECT account will be lower than that of your peers who did not receive any D grades.

You will still receive your year 4 payout as long as you don't get another adverse grade.

The total sum of money paid out over the 30 years of your CONNECT plan will be lower (by one year's worth of deposit) than that of your peers who did not receive any D grades.

Unregistered 28-06-2023 10:10 AM
Will the principle be notified of your open posting application upon your application to a school or only when being offered by the school?

Unregistered 28-06-2023 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250727)
Will the principle be notified of your open posting application upon your application to a school or only when being offered by the school?
You should tell your principal that u intend to apply for OPE. Principals talk to one another and you wouldn't want them to find out via another school leader telling them.

Unregistered 28-06-2023 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250760)
You should tell your principal that u intend to apply for OPE. Principals talk to one another and you wouldn't want them to find out via another school leader telling them.
Yet once your intent to transfer is known, some ROs and Ps will try ways and means for the applications to fail (to make the officer stay).

Always some risk and gamble involved

Unregistered 28-06-2023 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250788)
Yet once your intent to transfer is known, some ROs and Ps will try ways and means for the applications to fail (to make the officer stay).

Always some risk and gamble involved
how do they do that? extend by half a year?

Unregistered 29-06-2023 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250791)
how do they do that? extend by half a year?
Easiest way to sabo is to say bad things about you.

Unregistered 29-06-2023 01:54 PM
Does any other fellow moe teachers out there feel SEVERELY SEVERELY UNDERPAID compared to other professions for the service and contributions we do for the society? So much for developing a world class and top-tier education system when teachers all end up being over-worked, deprived and miserable zombies with pathetic compensation. I’m a 30F, joined the ministry at the age of 23 via NIE degree route, and currently only paid around $8.5k base. Peers around me who have been working for 7-8 years are all earning at least $12k if not $15k.

Unregistered 29-06-2023 02:09 PM
To the previous poster:

7 years.. I’m assuming with a degree and 8.5k. That’s not too bad right? Do you currently have a leadership position?

Are the peers you are talking about in insurance / tech kind of industries? Or am I not keeping up with the modern pay scale 😱

Unregistered 29-06-2023 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250845)
To the previous poster:

7 years.. I’m assuming with a degree and 8.5k. That’s not too bad right? Do you currently have a leadership position?

Are the peers you are talking about in insurance / tech kind of industries? Or am I not keeping up with the modern pay scale 😱
No leadershi positions. Peers I’m talking about hail from several industries such as tech or banking to MNCs, engineering, big4 etc

Unregistered 29-06-2023 02:31 PM
Questions on LH/SH
 
Hi I’ve been I’ve been in teaching for about 5 years and recently pushed to move towards the leadership track. My question is:

1) What’s the pay scale like for LH? Trying to decide if it’s worth the jump since I’m pretty happy with my current GEO4 pay.

2) What happens if you don’t perform well in the role?

3) and can you reject when it’s offered to you.. 🥲

Unregistered 29-06-2023 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250844)
Does any other fellow moe teachers out there feel SEVERELY SEVERELY UNDERPAID compared to other professions for the service and contributions we do for the society? So much for developing a world class and top-tier education system when teachers all end up being over-worked, deprived and miserable zombies with pathetic compensation. I’m a 30F, joined the ministry at the age of 23 via NIE degree route, and currently only paid around $8.5k base. Peers around me who have been working for 7-8 years are all earning at least $12k if not $15k.
Hi, curious about your base salary. Does it include bonuses?

Able to share your progression over your 7 years? :)

Thank you!

Unregistered 29-06-2023 04:13 PM
Ranking
 
Was successful in open posting but principal only released in June next year. Was curious how is ranking done at year end next year in my new school. Any one can share

Unregistered 29-06-2023 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250849)
Hi I’ve been I’ve been in teaching for about 5 years and recently pushed to move towards the leadership track. My question is:

1) What’s the pay scale like for LH? Trying to decide if it’s worth the jump since I’m pretty happy with my current GEO4 pay.

2) What happens if you don’t perform well in the role?

3) and can you reject when it’s offered to you.. 🥲
No difference in pay scale, still geo4. The idea is that you will probably get higher performance bonus and have an added responsibility allowance for taking on LH at geo4. It's about 3plus k per year

You need to go for cluster interview and clear it to be an official LH. Sch will usually ask you to cover the role for 1 or 2 years first before you go for the interview. Allows them to see whether you are suitable, and for you to see if it's a good fit.

As a geo4 LH I would say that if you are doing it for added money, don't because tuition gives you way more money for way less work 😂 but if u wanna have greater scope and impact then it would be worth taking it on if your school offers you the opportunity

Unregistered 29-06-2023 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250858)
Was successful in open posting but principal only released in June next year. Was curious how is ranking done at year end next year in my new school. Any one can share
hi how did you know that your principal is only releasing you in june?

Unregistered 29-06-2023 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250858)
Was successful in open posting but principal only released in June next year. Was curious how is ranking done at year end next year in my new school. Any one can share
Why not release end of this year?

Unregistered 29-06-2023 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250860)
hi how did you know that your principal is only releasing you in june?
P would have discussed and email will be sent from HRP

Unregistered 29-06-2023 05:02 PM
Did not discuss with me and I receive email that will only be release in June

Unregistered 29-06-2023 05:54 PM
Your P won’t discuss with officer involved leh. Only with ur new P

Unregistered 29-06-2023 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250849)
Hi I’ve been I’ve been in teaching for about 5 years and recently pushed to move towards the leadership track. My question is:

1) What’s the pay scale like for LH? Trying to decide if it’s worth the jump since I’m pretty happy with my current GEO4 pay.

2) What happens if you don’t perform well in the role?

3) and can you reject when it’s offered to you.. 🥲
1) LH is not a pay scale. It is an appointment. Your pay only increases when you get promoted to a higher subgrade. However, if you are appointed a LH while you are GEO4 or GEO5, you will receive Responsibility Allowance (search for it in MOE Intranet). It's not much.

2) You could be asked to step down and return back to a Teacher role.

3) Yes.

Unregistered 29-06-2023 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250850)
Hi, curious about your base salary. Does it include bonuses?

Able to share your progression over your 7 years? :)

Thank you!
Hi, nope, the stated figure does not include figures. I would say it’s a combination of consistent top performance, going above and beyond and taking on additional projects and responsibilities, and some sheet luck -_<

Unregistered 29-06-2023 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250841)
Easiest way to sabo is to say bad things about you.
yup, such that the new organisation will decide not to take in the new officer

Unregistered 29-06-2023 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 250844)
Does any other fellow moe teachers out there feel SEVERELY SEVERELY UNDERPAID compared to other professions for the service and contributions we do for the society? So much for developing a world class and top-tier education system when teachers all end up being over-worked, deprived and miserable zombies with pathetic compensation. I’m a 30F, joined the ministry at the age of 23 via NIE degree route, and currently only paid around $8.5k base. Peers around me who have been working for 7-8 years are all earning at least $12k if not $15k.
May I know what is your subgrade?


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