From what I see most are 2 years jump 1 grade, some (maybe 25%?) get promoted consecutively. Sometime can promote twice in succession and stall for 2-3 years. Anyway I don't think it's something very rare and seldom seen.

Hi, I am currently a BT on probation. Will be confirmed soon. Can I just check if there's an increment when you get confirmed, and is it separate from merit increment?

For females, this is quite fast. My male colleague with 6 years experience reached GEO5. And he is not a scholar.

It includes both annual increment and promotion increment. Been in the system Long enough so u know.

Will we ever get to know our CEP? Has any of your ROs actually told you about your CEP?

If you have 2 teachers, both entering service at the same time. One teacher is being promoted to a KP position but the other teacher (without KP portfolio) is being promoted to another substantive grade faster than the teacher who has been given KP portfolio, who has a higher CEP?

If this is your first job, then no. You already received your increment after you graduated from NIE. No more additional increment upon confirmation. Only the yearly merit increment.

However, for mid-career switch, they may receive increment if there is a need to match their pay to their last drawn salary.

Application outcome
 

Hi! Was just wondering if anyone out here applied for the upcoming intake and has already received the application outcome?

Just to share
 

Happen to chance upon this thread while checking up info on adjunct teachers. All of a sudden, I felt lost over my career progression (but that is another long story altogether) and was researching on pay of adjunct teachers and jobs in other government sectors. :)

I guess I am an outlier. I have no honours and not a scholar. About 12 years in service. Was appointed a HOD in 2010 when I was 1A2 and is currently in SEO pay scale.

Just want to comment that to remain in service, you need to strike a balance between managing your boss and doing the best for the students. You need to sense your boss's preference and be able to communicate what you want without compromising the well-being of the students. (Of course, it is easy for me to say when I have been through only 2 VPs, 3 Ps and a few big-shots in MOE).

All the best to those who are applying to be a teacher. MOE has reached the threshold of 30,000 teachers and would be hiring to replace retired teachers and those who resigned.

If I am not bogged down with work, I may be able to answer questions related to the leadership track. Please lve your questions here and possibly an email address so that I can reply. I am not comfortable with leaving too many clues about the nature of my job here.

All the best, everyone!

Hi, I also applied for the upcoming intake, and received an email stating that it takes 4-5 weeks for processing after the closing date, and if no news by 28th April considered not shortlisted.
Still waiting too :(

Calle bell
 

That's a long career. What advice would you have for someone who is interested in the leadership track? I'm about to be in service for one year but I'm fortunate to have been given quite a few projects and tasks to handle in my school.

LostHOD
 

Hi a quick reply from me amidst my lunch.

Actually leadership track is quite full now. During MLS, they are encouraging HODs/SHs to switch to ST-ship.

You need to demonstrate initiative, quick/creative thinking when given tasks (basically, demonstrate that you are deserving of a higher CEP.) In addition, the projects need to have impact, especially affecting a level or the whole school. At the end, it also boils down to how your HOD appraise you. (For me, I will appraise a JH more positively if he/she comes to me with proposals to solve problems than coming to me to solve problems for him/her and yes, I have gotten wonderful 1A1 officers to run programmes impacting the whole school and external community before.)

You also need to remember that teaching and learning is still bread and butter and also keep in mind never to forget the duty of care teachers have.

Hope this helps.

Hi LostHOD,

1. Do all scholars generally promote faster (including local ones and those lower tier overseas scholars such as Teaching Scholarship (Overseas))? How does MOE select who to go for MOE HQ stints after 2-3 years of teaching? How about teaching awardees?

2. A lot of hype is on the Leadership Track, but do you know anything about the Specialist Track? Is it advisable to go onto that track?

Thank you.

lol. i couldnt help but laugh at this even though im not a MOE teacher.

it's a FACT that scholars PROMOTE FASTER in the entire civil service. dont even need brains to think about this. if not, den wat's the value n prospect of taking scholarships? LOLOLOL

aiya leadership and specialist track. glorified names nia. i hope ur a male who been thru NS and not a female, bcos im gonna use the analogy of SAF.

leadership = commissioned officer
specialist = non-commissioned officer aka sergeant to warrant / encik

now who do u think will command who to do saikang (Sh1t work) in the event your dept has only 1 person on LT and another person on ST.

1. Do all scholars generally promote faster (including local ones and those lower tier overseas scholars such as Teaching Scholarship (Overseas))? How does MOE select who to go for MOE HQ stints after 2-3 years of teaching? How about teaching awardees?

Definitely scholars get promoted faster. Scholars on AO scheme get promoted faster than EO scholars. (AO scheme - dual track scholars). As for teaching awardees, I am not very sure but I think their progression is the same as normal teachers. However, it would be based on my observations only as some of my uni mates who were teaching awardees do not hold any leadership position now)

If you wish to apply for stints in MOE, you can apply via open posting but some MOE postings are never advertised. I am currently in a stint where vacancies are never openly advertised in Apex. Recommendation needs to go through P and Supt and then you are invited for 'tea' session (aka interview). But you need to note that life is HQ is not for everyone. It is basically a desk bound job and requires a certain level of writing skills. Deadlines are generally manageable though sometimes the schedule can be crazy (like this week is burnt for me as I need to write papers). But the learning is very good.

2. A lot of hype is on the Leadership Track, but do you know anything about the Specialist Track? Is it advisable to go onto that track?

Sorry. Don't know much about specialist track as my P put me in leadership track and basically refuse to put me on specialist track. Every track has its own merits. For specialist track, you get to deepen their pedagogy of the subject you are passionate about.


Hope I answered your queries adequately.

Not supposed to be communicated. Of course in practice your RO might be willing to reveal; but I feel that doesn't necessarily benefit either party.

The closest I've come across to revealing of CEP is when talking with RO / reportees about career aspiration; since there are minimum requirements of CEP for SH/LH/HOD positions, the RO might possibly let you know straightaway if you don't qualify. ;)

This is where I would suggest outsiders not betray their ignorance by commenting too much on stuff they don't know...

The specialist track refers to a path for officers who choose to stay on in HQ doing specialist work for the long haul. Nothing to do with ST/LT (who are on the teaching track).

This is almost a permanent move - you are essentially abandoning the leadership/teaching tracks when you decide to transfer. The typical path for this is to get a HQ posting as an officer (usually a SEO1 - SH/LH - level role), indicate an interest to your bosses about staying on, and then clearing interviews etc. to be appointed as a specialist.

For specialists, the 'level' is dictated by levels. Level 1 caps at SEO2, Level 2 caps at SEO3, Level 3 onwards would qualify for superscale. Realistically, most specialists peak at Level 2. From what I've noticed, Level 3 and 4 specialists would be project directors and kind of equivalent to deputy directors / VPs, or even higher.

Progression/promotion on the specialist track would be slower than on the leadership track. You can expect to stay at SEO1 as a level 1 specialist for many years. Ultimately, it is really for people who feel they are better suited for that nature of work as opposed to going back to schools in leadership/teaching roles.

I've described mainly the practical aspects of the track - for exact jobscope, it's difficult to go into detail as there are different specialist roles in various divisions. My advice would be to check out which divisions/branches have specialists (I suggest googling "sgdi moe specialist") and finding out more about the work that they do, then attempting to secure a HQ stint there as a HQ officer.

My 2¢ - that's a pretty good start. Continue to do your best in the bread and butter (classroom teaching). If you are already contributing significantly within your school, you may also want to indicate to your RO your interest in the leadership track and ask for advice. If you are a good worker it is in your RO's interest to give you more developmental assignments that will also help the department's output.

That said, there may not be vacancies in your school for upward progression. It is possible to apply to other schools to take on a SH/LH role once you've been in service for three years; to convince the other school to take you, you'd need a good portfolio though. CEP would also have to be there. Changing schools is also a rather big step, so you'll need to assess whether that's what you want at the point in time.

From what I'd observed in ranking panels, promising officers whose CEP is pushed up will be assigned the Leadership Track by default. It seems to be the most versatile path - can easily transfer laterally to the Specialist/Teaching tracks later, whereas the reverse doesn't seem to be so simple.

Can anyone apply for a stint at HQ? Does one need to have certain CEP to be able to get a stint at HQ? Or anyone can try to apply through open posting?

Good summary. Personally having been in the system my recommendation for others who are not very sure is not to take up the specialist track unless you are really absolutely certain this is what you want. Some people I know are just sick of the frontline teaching and thought that opting a specialist track will allow you to hide in HQ and not deal with pesky students, parents and principals.

Specialist track straight away limits your prospects and flexibility severely. Unless you are like top 5% consistent strong performer all the way or have a powerful mentor, your career will just trudge along with almost no prospects for promotion. The work can also be very boring and repetitive especially for some subject matters that are very narrow and niche, i.e. you really need to have real passion in it, not just treat it like general teaching where you can still grind along.

Also spec roles are very corporate and report driven. You will be writing a lot of papers, doing all sorts of studies and review for presentation to policy makers / decision makers. Some people have impression specialist is less political because you just 'do your own thing'. Nothing is further from the truth, you are dealing with so many senior and influential top dogs as a small fry and you need to learn a lot of office politic techniques to protect yourself and advance your proposals and balance against various cliques that are hostile to each other.

Hi, to all who have been in the service long enough, is it true that it is unrealistic of young teachers who are not scholars to apply for HQ positions? What are the requirements for HQ positions? Do they groom young officers?

There are plenty of non-scholars in HQ. Since entry level position is SEO1 level though your CEP probably needs to have been increased at least once (even if you've not taken up the role). If you're already holding an appointment, should qualify. Depending on your relationship, could possibly let your RO know you are interested in applying and see if he/she dissuades you.

I wouldn't say they deliberately groom young officers, but being used to taking in new officers who get posted back to school every 2-3 years I would imagine most divisions have processes in place to manage the assignment of work, e.g. You might be a team member in your first year, but leading project teams by your last.

Prior to joining HQ I felt rather incredulous about all these HQ officers parachuting back to schools as middle managers, but now that I'm here I can see how the nature of work does prepare you for managerial duties (even if in a somewhat different context).

Just curious. I was in the service from 1998 to 2003. Left at GEO1A2, about $4,700 a month.
Just wondering, assuming I'd stayed on the normal teaching track, what kind of salary would I be getting now? 7+ k ?
Any difference if on the Leadership track?
Anyone around my generation can answer?

Assuming your performance is average and stay within teaching track, probably somewhere in mid range of senior teacher. I would say ard 6.5k. 7k+ need to be master teacher or max of senior teacher which performance needs to be above average.

Dear LostHOD / HQWorker,

Would you say having a Masters is useful when it comes to teaching? Does it help with career progression for the different tracks (leadership, teaching or specialist)?

Caveat: I don't have a Masters myself, so answering just from observation/guesswork.

First question - when it comes to teaching, having a Masters could be useful. Depending on what you study, it could possibly allow you to appreciate your subject area better and thus be better able to teach it, how you design your lessons/school-based curriculum, etc...

Second question - for career progression, I don't think there's a direct impact other than perhaps improved performance due to your newly-acquired knowledge. No automatic boost to CEP / performance grade / salary just for having one.

However, for specialist track, having a Masters is actually a requirement to build up specialist knowledge in a specific field. At the moment, if you pass the interview for specialist track without having a Masters, they will actually fund your further studies.

Wrong la. Do proper research pls.

Way too low. If no major disciplinary issues, I would expect ~10-11k.

Hi HQ Worker,

In your experience in HQ, have you seen or worked with any non-scholar officers who are GEO 3 or GEO 4? Is it true that one must be at least at KP or SEO1 before one can consider to apply to HQ?

Calleforsale
 

Suggest you also do proper research.

$7K is the max assuming he is not a HOD or a senior teacher. He will remain at 1A3 where his maximum pay at $7K will stagnate till he retires. (He may be promoted to SEO in his 40s or 50s depending on time norm.)

No way 10 to 11K. The maximum pay of SEO1A1 is not 11k. Some VPs and ADs in HQ are not even drawing this sum considering the impact of their work.

I agree with previous poster. This amount is not accurate

To facilitate said research…

My calculations for hypothetical teacher who left 14 years ago at GEO1A2 (GEO4), drawing 4.7k… chances are would have hit GEO5 by now, with quite a good chance of taking home above 7k. Really depends on annual performance though, which would affect annual increment.

Very hard to estimate progression if assumed KP or ST role. If we assume the officer made SEO1 along the way, maybe $150 annual increment + about $500 from two promotion increments… maybe around $7.5k? 8?

Again, caveat - I don't really fully understand how the increments are calculated. It's also really impossible to guess what would have happened in the years since 2003.

I have younger GEO colleagues who have not previously been KPs. I've not really asked but think they're around GEO3/4. Also haven't asked if they're scholars, but I don't think so (possibly teaching award holders, though from what I've heard I don't think those are especially fast-tracked).

I *think* your CEP needs to be at SEO1 level, but you don't necessarily need to there yet (I applied in as GEO as well) or have held KP appointment. Unfortunately CEP is not known to officers so it might be difficult to gauge eligibility.

Ultimately, if you are interested in a particular role, it probably won't hurt to apply. Having held a KP position would help, but the main challenge is really to convince interviewers (also prospective bosses/supervisors) that you have the skillset for the job, ideally supported by your previous work experiences.

I think you have some fundamental misunderstanding on how the whole system works.

Average performers do not reach the cap of the teaching track in the first place. In any level, salary will reduce significantly once they cross the mid-point. As one gets closer to the salary cap, it is very difficult to get any increment unless the performance rating is top notch.

The above poster is right in the sense that 6.5k is likely where the hypothetical teacher will land as a GEO5 or SEO1. Of course you can argue if he is high potential in the management track he can make more as a VP or Principal, but that's not what the original guy was asking.

Thanks for the input. I'm not approaching the cap yet so will have to defer to those more knowledgeable! Just to confirm, though - there's really no/minimal annual increment even as a C-grader when you're near the ceiling? How about C+?

So that's something to "look forward" to in the future…

From my own observation and what some older birds tell me, it is a gradual curve instead of yes/no increase. For e.g.slightly above mid point then a C+ can in theory get some increase although this will be lower then normal, but as you get nearer to cap you might need a B+ or more to get the same small increase.

Let's say you are the typical C- to B- range of performance, there will be no increase when you are close to the cap. However every 3-5 years, MOE will decide to increase the range for each level, so if you happen to catch the year when they increase you might get a little increase for 1-2 years before nothing again.

There are no B+ or B- grades in MOE.

Selected for GEO Interview
 

Hi all, I have received notification for an interview after the last GEO recruitment exercise in March. Anyone here in the same boat as me? Also, anyone here care to share how best to succeed in the coming GEO interview? Thank you in advance! :)

Hi fellow teachers,

I have a question that i hope some of you can help to answer...

Does it make sense for a GEO3 officer to be given the role of a HOD? Officer has been stuck on GEO3 scale for 4 years. Recently has been asked to take on HOD role in school.

Will the extra responsibilities of a HOD necessarily lead to a quick promotion from GEO3 to GEO5 perhaps?

Isn't it only fair that the extra responsibilities and workload lead to a faster promotion? Otherwise, whats the point of having the extra responsibilities if the payscale is going to be the same as fellow peers/or even lower?

Hope to hear some stories of fellow teachers.

My 2¢... Not an expert, but making educated guesses based on observations thus far. Addressing a few specific queries/comments raised in the original post.

1) Does it make sense for a GEO3 officer to be given the role of a HOD?
Sure, if the school has a need and officer has been identified as capable enough to take on the duties. I would want to clarify if the officer is meant to be acting HOD or to officially take on the appointment, though - there is a difference (to elaborate later).

2) Officer has been stuck on GEO3 scale for 4 years.
This is interesting - I feel that's pretty long for an officer with HOD-level CEP. This is just a guess, though. I'm not high up enough to know the norms. ;)

3) Will the extra responsibilities of a HOD necessarily lead to a quick promotion from GEO3 to GEO5 perhaps?
I think it's quite probable. To be formally appointed as HOD, you will need to have a minimum CEP - that should effectively increase the speed of promotion. If officer is being appointed acting HOD with the intent of officially taking on the role later, the school might be planning to raise the CEP to the prerequisite level before sending for interview. This will also lead to faster promotion.

4) Otherwise, whats the point of having the extra responsibilities if the payscale is going to be the same as fellow peers/or even lower?
At the very minimum, a GEO3 doing HOD work should be appraised very favourably as compared against other GEO3s. Almost confirmed B grade (possibly A, though that's really super rare). Though CEP is assigned/raised separately from performance grade, there will generally be a correlation and I would expect a corresponding increase in CEP/promotion speed to follow, if the job is done well.

--

This is of course just the pragmatic career progression aspect of things. There's lots of other stuff to consider (officer's temperament, department dynamics, etc.) but I'm sure they can assess that on their own.

At the end of the day, in their shoes, I'd like some clarity on whether I am to officially take up the role, or if it's only an internal appointment (and if so, whether an official appointment is to be expected). I've heard some horror stories where the acting HOD is never formally appointed and someone else is eventually brought in to take up the role. Then again, in those cases the officer probably did not perform to the school's expectations.

All the best.