People in the financial industry, are you all worried about your jobs?
 

more banks cutting jobs...

TODAYonline | Hot News | RBS cuts 4,800 jobs, dumps equities, mergers divisions

French bank BNP Paribas cutting jobs in Singapore

TODAYonline | Business | Foreign banks cutting jobs here

Asia Singapore: Singapore job outlook bleak in 2012

My Fixed Income Trader friend said no bonus for last year's performance, the second half of last year wiped out most profits earned during the first half of the year. He said he is lucky to still have a job. Bonus? He said don't even think about it.

How are the rest of you all doing? :o

Those who were cut during the Lehman crisis quickly found work in at most 6 months, so what's there to be afraid of?

People outside of finance tend to exaggerate such job cutting news to psychologically compensate themselves for not having the good fortune of landing a job in finance.

have u been retrenched before or know someone who has been retrenched? Its easy to talk big when u r not in the situation. My company was one of the companies involved in the news about retrenchments last year.

The number was small compared to the whole staff strength so it did not really ring much alarm bells as compared to 2008-2009, but still it was hard to see someone go, especially when he is not young and he has a family with young children.

This time its quite real though, and to deny it is naive.

My [front office] sector has seen quite a bit of cut backs throughout the industry, and banks like RBS have closed entire divisions globally.

The problem is that, if you do get cut now, likely you are out of the industry for a while because no one is hiring, and you hope that your retrenchment package is enough to tide you over to the next job.

Had a friend below 30 who was earning $15k a month, and was retrenched during 2008. He had no retrenchment package and was stuck jobless for almost 2 years before he got lucky and found a job paying $10k+. Before that, he was only getting offers of between $4 to 6k.

You have to remember that top paying jobs are still scarce, and if you lose yours its not easy to get another one in this environment. If you take a $4 to 6k job, it resets your salary scale and its hard to climb back to where you once were.

So no, I wouldn't underestimate this cycle.

Well, I have been in finance for more than 10 years, not sure what is this good fortune you are referring to. Other than the high pay, there is nothing good about it. Long hours, demanding targets and surrounded by arrogant, greedy and fat colleagues who think they are god's gift to the world. Too bad I love money too much, so cannot bring myself to retire or start my own business.

And at the end of the day, regardless of what profession you in, you are still a salaried employee working for someone. You are just a worker. Your ricebowl still depend on someone else. Until you start your own company, you are just someone's b**ch.

You said there's nothing good about it, and yet in the same breath, you said you love money too much (cos the job pays well).

Fact is your friend found a high-paying job again.

Getting retrenched is not as scary as it sounds.

Moreover, not everyone gets retrenched. It's usually the bad performers and usually the minority. The big fat cats are always spared.

That was my view as well be4 i saw such a retrenchment exercise for myself .

Reality is - its not usually the bad performers. I have seen folks let go for a host of reasons ie they are the rm for a sector that the bank wants to reduce exposure to, they were recently promoted (hence last in first out), they just moved to another dept/country within the same bank, they just joined the bank, they are too expensive , they are mid to late 40s, they hv made some high lvl enemies etc.

So its quite real and quite a scary time.

Fact is you can get retrenched in any job, even civil service and stat boards. Some taxi drivers are also asked (forced) to quit driving!

The risk is about the same, just that finance is a bigger target for people to talk about.

Given this risk of getting the sack, it's always better to be in finance cos it pays well.

When the semicon industry fired people by the thousands, no one bat an eyelid.

Agree, there are indeed some retrenchments ongoing in some european banks, but nothing massive.
This world may not need funky structured CDOs, but it still need financial services from basic depo/loan, capital market access, trade financing, custodial services, to sophisticated risk management hedging, investment advisory, M&A/Corp finance advisory.

Other industries are going through tough times, a few headlines like below can also be seen
Nokia Siemens to Cut Work Force by 17,000
Amd Slashes 10% Of Workforce

Well two things :
- finance is more prone to hire / fire practices because (1) its an ppl industry where you can ramp up capacity or capability fairly quickly simply by hiring experienced ppl (in other industries, capacity tends to be capped by infrastructural constraints ) (2) salaries are a large component of total cost in finance (hence cutting jobs is v efficient way to bring down cost base)

- finance professionals tend to have a harder time finding an equivalent paying job to maintain the family's lifestyle (no sympathy expected here , but its nonetheless a reality )

Whats left unsaid in this thread so far is that there is also another group of innocent casualties in this environment - ie the graduating mba finance and banking and finance grads, which went into their courses years ago bright eyed and with dreams of the $5 to 10k job at 25, a decision made at a time the financial industry seemed the hottest sector out there. Its almost like a replay of the life sciences story.

civil service and stat board do not retrench ppl. They may let ppl go due to bad performance or disciplinary issues. That is not retrenchment.

n not every finance job is equal. Backroom ops dun pay well. I have seen many grads thought they are going to get a good deal cos they got to join a bank. Most are grads with honours or even first class but they have no idea what ops is about so they join ops. After 2+ years then they realise they are the wrong side of the pecking order. V hard to move to front office afterthat.

Banking job pays well... (only if you are in the right position.)

Agree with this fully. Anyone who thinks he will be spared because he is a good performer is kidding himself.

Taking the 2 years lost of income into consideration. It is a big deal.

To be frank it is easier to get sack in finance then other sectors. High risk high return is a fair game. Not to mention the long hours you have to put in in this sector.

Him, lirecon
 

Agreed fully.

No true. Backroom ops only look like underpaid because compared to frontline. But if you compare to other backroom jobs in non-banks pay is still much higher.

depends on what u compare against. non banks is a v wide range.

once you're retrenched from a backroom bank job, very hard to find jobs in other industries.
at least for backroom jobs in non banks, you'll have more transferable skills.

not to mention some backroom ops are now outsourced overseas...

u wrong. people inside finance tend to exggerate such job cutting news to psychologically ask people outside not to come in

Nice one. I didn't think of that.

if people are just spooked by one thread in the forum and give up joining finance then he does not deserve to join finance.

Both correct :)

Yeah I am pretty worried, the job pays well but there is a hire and fire mentality that is more prevalent in the finance industry then in any other previous jobs I worked in. I also noticed people tend to job hop a lot in the finance, but on the flipside, the banks also feel less hestitation to fire.

That is not to say that there is no retrenchment in my previous jobs. The difference is that they try to retain the employee thru adjustments like maybe work 4 days per week instead of 5, cut back on benefits, and only retrench as a last resort. Whereas in banking, they just reach for the axe when times are bad.

Overall, I feel that banking is a lot more volatile. They hire very aggressively and pay very well when times are good, but the opposite is also true.

lol, tio retrench and out of job for 10years also no problem 1year pay more than 11years of most people anyway

There is no job loss if you are in risk management, in fact, we are getting a pay raise!

Risk staff set for pay hike
Richard Partington
09 Mar 2012
Salaries awarded to staff in key risk management roles at investment banks are forecast to increase at a quicker pace than for chief executives, as regulatory demands heap pressure on banks to retain top control employees, a new report published today finds.


Base pay for staff in the so-called ‘control roles’, such as risk management, legal, internal audit and compliance positions, is forecast to increase by at least 3%, according to a survey of 63 financial institutions worldwide by Mercer.

By contrast, base pay for chief executives is forecast to be frozen in 2012, according to the survey.

US and European regulators have ramped up pressure on financial institutions to ensure risk procedures are adequately adhered to in order to prevent a repeat of the financial crisis.

Vicki Elliott, senior partner and financial services industry leader at Mercer, said: “Financial services organisations are responding to significant changes in regulatory requirements concerning compensation policies, incentive plan designs and their governance. In Emea and the Americas they face keen public scrutiny.”

Chris Forbes, chief executive at PhD Search & Selection who specialises in risk control recruitment, said he had seen new hires attract a salary premium of about 10-15% when switching employer. He said: “There’s so much risk and regulation in the market right now and there’s not enough talent, so it’s a very competitive environment.”

He added: “Counterparty risk analysis and the stress testing of models and products has come more to the fore. What you’ve seen is a lot of people touch around the edges of it but you haven’t got many true experts.”

-- Write to [email protected]

Referring to these front line finance jobs (I'm holding one such job):
1. Not everyone makes so much
2. Not everyone makes so much long enough to accumulate enough wealth
3. Every retrenchment means your average monthly pay is lowered
4. There is a cost to pay, e.g.long hours, stress
5. The psychological toll of retrenchment. It's painful trying to make spending cuts on yourself and your love ones.. the biggest uncertainty is one doesn't even know when the next high pay job will come.
6. Alot of people are trying to get in. Locals, foreigners, young and old, people from any industry, any field of study. The competition is extremely keen.
7. Alot of very mean, ruthless, selfish, unethical people are in this industry.
8. Alot of people in this industry are very bright, gifted, hardworking and they are likely to excel in other fields and make above average money
9. There is no such thing as lowering your pay to justify your existence. I like what I'm doing and I will stay even if my pay is cut by half. But it doesn't work this way. You either have a job or not.

Honest.

Finance people are way better off than the rest. Everyone bear the risk of being layoff - but Finance people are paid the best during good ok days. It is a matter of whether they save up or not.

If I born/start over again, I die die will not go into computer science. I will go into investment /finance related job. A few real good years there is already better than entire IT career, unless you found google or instagram.

PS: after 20 years in IT, with a MSC in IT, now can't find job, driving taxi...sigh

Agree with Honest.

Another IT guys here. So many cheap indians are taking over our IT jobs. Moreover IT jobs are easy to outsource. Unlike finance, doctor, engineers, lawyers, nurse who are regulated by professional boards, any Tom, D and harry can join IT.

My cousin who is a few year younger than me, (<40) makes about 30k-35k sgd per month, working in investment industry overseas. His time is too expensive even to attend grandmother funeral. I probably also studied as hard as him, but can't even keep my IT job, which is only a quarter of his pay. Sob..

One quarter of 35k is about 9k a month. Already not bad.

Finance guy
 

The finance sector pays better than average..but grass is always greener on the other pastures.

The stress level is also higher in finance, cos everything moves very fast and involves a lot of
money. There's no free lunch in this world.

An earlier post also mentioned that it is very competitive with many bright and hardworking ppl
in this sector. And they become obsessed with money, sometimes some ppl will do whatever it
takes to get the money..so it's not good for your soul and character in the long run.

There are pros and cons to every job

Nasty people and stressful work are not unique only in the financial industry. They are everywhere. Maybe slightly more in finance.

There are nice people too, and work life balance isn't a myth. Look at the number of people taking shuttle buses and walking to MRT stations in CBP and Shenton Way and you will know.

Don't be sour just because you aren't in finance.

Look at the number of people taking shuttle buses *at 6pm every day*

Actually, life is quite OK in a local or regional Asian bank. There are no late night conference calls with the US & Europe because there aren't any people to talk to as everyone is in the Asian timezone. Sure, you get in early in the morning, but by 6pm or so, all the emails stop and you can go home and relax. It's a little more stressful than a regular retail/industrial job, but actually quite manageable and you have decent family life. Traveling is usually in Asia and it's easy to get back by Friday night. You always have your weekend.

Also, management is less demanding. Compared to a foreign bank, stuff you expect to produce in 1 day, you can take a week. Plus most of the staff disappear by 6pm or so, so you will look like a fool if you stay back in an empty office. The other thing is that zero ang moh around and Indians will tend to be local indians. It's all local boys and girls and a very comfortable environment.

I've compared with friends at foreign banks and these days, local banks now pay as much as foreign banks because foreign banks bonus has been negligible for the past few years. My base is lower, but last year I got 9 months bonus. My friends at foreign banks are lucky if they get 1-3 months. Some got zero. So, they work like a dog. Fly all over the world all the time. Stay up past midnight for conference calls. All to just stay employed since they know that the bonus will be almost nothing. Even this year, foreign banks have already warned that bonuses will be terrible.

The only thing foreign bank employees look forward to is the return of the good old days. But even so, EU regulators have already capped bonuses at a maximum of 12 months and the US is likely to follow. So, even when times are good, shareholders will benefit, but not foreign bank employees.

alifert arch
 

yup! I work in a regional office of an Asian bank and I usually go home at 5.30pm !! lol My bank has shorter working hours than most others starting at 9am till 5.30pm. Sometimes I stay till 6pm but mostly to do my own stuff / research. Workload is very manageable. Expat management are not demanding, sometimes they just sign of reports without even checking lol. Locals nearly all leave on the dot at 5.30.. Oh and I am doing credit risk management, not some back end ops thing.

I always find it funny whenever someone outside of relationship management, sales/trading, fund management or research needs to tell others that they are not from "Ops". Dude u are no different from your product control, settlements, custody, audit or whatever colleagues. No need to emphasize you're not from Ops. Your front office (and people on this forum) will laugh at you.

What's your role? Corporate banker? Middle management?

Wrong. People from settlements, clearing or whatever work long hours, have crappier pay and bonuses and are generally not as mobile as those in 'middle office'.

I've been there, done that. Investment guy. Now retired at 40, earning passive income from my 2 investment condos and other stuff. Spend lots of time at my condo gym and swimming pool. Feeling healthier, fitter and much lesser stress. No more high blood pressure. Happily retired millionaire. Thinking of starting an exclusive "young retirees" club, members must be below 50 and have reached millionaire status. Anyone here want to be founding members? Being a member of this club is the new status symbol.