Career progression for risk management related position
 

Hi guys
Just want to know how is it like for someone to scale the ranks and get a risk management analyst job or is this position entry level? (Pardon me, I'm a greenhorn)

Let's say I'm pursuing a part time finance econs degree with a non related diploma and I want an entry level job in the bank to gain experience during my course of study, thereafter applying for the job I want after I finish my degree. What kind of jobs would be best suitable to gain experience? (Doesn't necessary have to be a bank job)

Many thanks in advance.

Risk management is a viable and sustainable career, the hours are reasonable, stress level not as high as in trading, but requires constant learning due to ever-changing markets.

Risk manager is usually well-respected in a bank. A VP risk manager or above in a top-tier bank makes at least 200k/year and above.
Market risk commands the highest salary, closely followed by credit risk, and then operational risk. Bonus is not as high as a FO would get, but you can expect 3-9months. Can be higher if one is at SVP, MD level.

Good luck! Bloomberg recently wrote an article of risk officers getting paid as much as 10 bucks....


Chief Risk Officer Rises to $10 Million Job Following Derivatives Meltdown - Bloomberg

It may not be easy to get directly into risk management positions given that you are doing a part-time degree and do not have relevant experience. I suggest you set yourself an easier goal of getting into bank operations - i.e. work in junior positions in the back office.

Thanks for all the inputs, greatly appreciated. Will it be viable for me to apply a position as a banking assistant and move up from there?

can try, but will be a very long climb.

Yes can try. Hop early and hop often (once a year is not too frequent by today's standards). When you reach mid thirtes, settle in a comfortable position in a comfortable bank and collect your 100k+ income yearly and save up a couple millions for retirement.

Sounds easy right?

Dont hop toomuch, this industry is small, build your reputation

I am a market risk manager for an Investment bank. Life as a market risk manager isnt easy but pays well. U got to have the passion for market developement and when **** happen you are well covered.

Thanks again for the inputs, I'm willing to work hard to achieve my later life stability. One last question, anyone can give me a sample progression structure that I might go through?
E.g. Assistant>Executive>Snr executive>manager>VP etc

Analyst (<50k) => Associate (>50k, <80k)=> Avp (>80k, <140k)=> Vp (>140k, <240k) => Director (>240k, <500k)

Above salary exclude bonus. Typical mkt risk bonus range btw 50k to 100k. They look into total compensation for the year. Actually at avp level, quite comfortable as annual is close to 200k.

I think your range is for the local bank package. For foreign banks who run large trading risks e.g. Goldman, Deutsche, you can safely add 20-30% more

My numbers are very much for foreign banks. You can go and check with head hunters if you dont believe. IB now are not like pre IFC days. Cost cutting pressure are all over the place and banks are resorting to do offshoring to cheaper location like bangalore and manila. For local banks, there are nothing to risk manage, products are linear and it is more towards regulatory reporting rather than asking traders to cut position. I have been to both local and foreign. It is crap in local banks especially the management. Their JD is always misleading and their system cant even do a proper pricing let alone displaying delta,gamma and vega risk. The best part is that they cant even relate pnl movement with respect to risk change. What a joke!

Goldman, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley 's market risk management team is in HK. Deutsche, Barcap, StandChart, CS and UBS in SGP. CS market risk team only hire ex-traders.

Other risk managers in oil trading firms e.g. Glencore, kouch, bp, bhp and buy-side e.g. Gic, blackrock, etc also get paid very well.
So well that a lot of traders have switched to risk management roles.

You sounds so ya-ya with condescending remarks on local banks, dont bite the hands who fed you once. Knowing delta, gamma, vega, volga, vanna as your friends mean nothing if you cannot make money

Which would be a better option? Study part time (4 years) and apply an entry level job at as associate officers, customer service etc (btw I've a non related diploma) or study full time (3 years) thereafter try to squeeze in foreign bank executive level jobs?

thanks for the input, now it's much clearer :)

You muz be from local bank and in risk mgmt, u don't have to make money. Yes, I am against local bank. So wat!

Risk Mgmt analysts in foreign banks are essentially getting back-office pay.. perhaps with the exception of barcap..

The 3rd-ranked university in Singapore is producing FRESH graduates commanding 20k a month, which is what an experienced Director is earning. All of you should be ashamed for earning peanuts.

NTU's 2011 grad earns $20,000 a month

Just curious. Are there any differences between "risk management" and a "financial risk analyst" ?

A financial risk analyst works in the risk management field, there are many different types of risk management like investment, operatio, market etc.

Financial risk analyst sounds like coporate treasury role in a mnc, rather in a bank

the word "analyst" is very broad.

you may just be merely generating reports on behalf of risk managers, monitor parameters, perform general admin work, or perform a small repetitive and boring task. all these can constitute to being an analyst, as afterall, you are analyzing the day to day operations.

in risk management, you are really analyzing risk - creating algos and detect risk parameters. perform PnL. And then tell those real "analysts" to prepare reports for them to check.

"creating algo"? means coming up with model valuation, isnt this a quant role?
"perform pnl" should be done by product controllers?

If risk managers are so smart, how come banks still collapsed like lehman?

The reason why Lehman collapse is about poor risk management within the organization not just the risk managers alone. The amount of toxic that it have wasn't reported and never measured. When crisis come, they have problem finding fundings. Everyone demand higher spread where over night Libor spike beyond 500bps. CDS start to widen to a point of no return. It is also because of the funding issue that resulted to 3s/6s fixing spreads.

Will it happen again? I mean when.

Of course, it will happen. History repeat itself but this time not in Europe or US.
It will be in China. After the financial crisis, banks have come under intense scrutiny from regulators and these days they will threaten the bank by demanding instant response and follow-up. FED for example walk into most of the investment banks suddenly and demand pnl attribution for all products. They wrote a letter to the CEO and cc FSA and BaFin. Well if no action taken, the bank's license will be revoked.

algos can apply to many areas. not only quant traders. there's still credit risk. market risk. and more.

product controllers are sometimes called "analyst" in different banks. be sure to enquire fully before making a wrong decision.

Having worked in a top-tier investment bank in risk, to be honest, most of the risk models are already found in John Hull book, no need to create algos and detect risk parameters lah. Actually if you work in foreign banks, even better because these model already developed in HQ London or NY by phds, so dont need to re-invent the wheel, just need to have some feel.

Anyway, the toxic stuff like CDOs are not done anymore. Also not much prop trading in the banks these days given the clamp-down from UK, Euro and US central banks.

The world has changed since the financial crisis, the banks are getting more regulated, and risk managers are doing more related "analyst" jobs to satisfy regulators by churning more reports for them. Dont need to feel such jobs are too lowly.

If you applying jobs for risk management, just keep learning, be humble and willing to take on tasks that are boring/repetitive, master excel vba and automate these tasks, you will do well. Good luck!

Operational Risk? Business Continuity Management?
 

Anyone from these two areas?

It seems to be a pretty niche risk management area and normally FIs hire only experienced people to fill the positions. Do their annual income go above 100k?

Business Continuity Planning is not usually not considered part of risk management department in a bank, probably part of estate and facility management department. For foreign banks, probably at most 2-3 people are in BCP. Pay is not as high as risk management.

Operational risk is quite niche, and usually op risk people used to work in many years in operations, support or audit in the bank, it is not very technical role but requires strong organisational skills, and able to build strong partnership with all level of people in the bank. Paywise has been going up due to shortage of such staff. VP can reach 180k/year

Hmm... so based on what you know, how do someone get into operational risk (entry level)?

The thing is banks are always looking for experienced people to fill up these positions but if there are no entry level positions available, where do all these experienced people come from?

Ditto ! Well said

Anyone know the salary range to mkt risk mgr? Typically avp/vp range.

Ard 200-240k base for vp in foreign bank + 6-9 month bonus
130k for avp

This salary range is only for top tier banks, just go and read

And how much would the risk people at UBS have beenearning? | Job news & advice | eFinancialCareers

Anyone knows what's the starting salary for market risk analyst with no exp (fresh grad) in bulge bracket banks and mid-tier banks?

Thx in advance

Starting Associate position should be 4.8k for local banks and 8k for top investment banks, any bank in between should be around 5-7k.

Many graduates don't even make 8k ever.