I versus Foreign Talent
 

Here's the light to job security conundrums in most industries:

Why do local folks procrastinate about dreary working motion, miserable remuneration, etc?
It's true indeed, that many faced retrenchment and had to relinquish their places to foreign workers. I too, for one, agree that there's a degree of affliction to our job security due to the colossal influx of foreign talents per se.

However, why don't we cast a critical eye on ourselves? Thus far, many posts that I've seen or came across stowed away individuals who have average to poor grades at school, holding a private degree or only a diploma. There are many other blatant factors but I believe this is by far the greatest infirmity that most locals have yet they choose to blame it solely on extrinsic factors.

I shan't begin any discourse on the effects of globalization or its effectual extent on Singapore as a capitalist society. The victims were right in this sense: Organizations cry "CHEAPER LABOUR engagement is in effect!" toward lower tier job positions as compared to unique or highly skilled positions. It's a fight between lowly rats. So why must they take your citizenship or dire straits into consideration LEST you are a SKILLED worker? Think about that.

To conclude, in lay portrayal, be exceptional or be extinguished. Either that or be extremely hardworking and determined. Irrespective of descent or government, one's success largely falls on one's work and credit. This begets employability, my friends.

With that, I humbly plead my case in acknowledging and concurring that most local varsity graduates don't have to deal with such conundrums disregarding inevitable crises, period.

A Singaporean can be skilled, hardworking and determined, do the best he can. But compared to a foreigner who is no better than him in skill but cheaper to hire, many companies with an eye to the bottom line, would hire the foreigner. Worse, they make the Singaporean train up the clueless foreigner, to take over his job.

To have meritocracy is good. But to have society based solely on shape up or ship out, is to ignore the needs of the average man, which form the majority of our society. It would be to run a country like Singapore Inc; where if you can't run at good speed and as cheap you are cut off. Its sounds manageable when you are young, educated, motivated, healthy, and your family does not need much money to survive (that is if your family is in India, China, etc where cost of living is low compared to here).

But what happens if you can't keep up? If everyone is so exceptional, who would be average? Most people are by definition average. Who takes care of their welfare?

Even the exceptional man may have his down days, may get sick and will certainly grow old, then where is his place? The elitism-based society you are championing, will lead to a cold and heartless society which ignores and abandons those that can't keep up. Already, Singapore does not have many benefits for the needy and struggling. We should not swing even further to make life harder for the average Singaporean by allowing vast amounts of foreigners (now 40%) into our country.

While I recognise that some foreigners are necessary on the low skilled and the high skilled end, the extent of immigration into our country in the past few years is shocking. Many of these foreigners are hired for jobs that Singaporeans Can and Want to do. Coupled with the lack of protection for Singaporean's livelihoods, my heart goes out to the average Singaporean.

Well, to be honest, I am 70% bordering on your side. Nonetheless, the gist of this post is to shed greater light on why procrastination will eventually fail.

It's factual that Singapore is a capitalist society like I've mentioned afore thus our government's unsaid sacrosanct policy of meritocracy has somehow devastated our local workforce and families.

Again, my point is to tell everyone to either be exceptional here or be extinguished. Move on to other options like migration, having a diverse portfolio and developing your career if elitism isn't your game. I mean after all, unfortunately, it takes more than feedback and election to change the government...

In UK, where the population is 60 million, the Brits were aghast over 2 million net migration over TEN years. They were angry over a 3% increase.

Singapore has 5 million and we had 1 million net increase over 10 years. That's a shocking 20% increase.

See a local blogger's commentary:
Diary of A Singaporean Mind: PM Cameron on UK's immigration woes...

Stay tuned for 6.5 million. The only way to survive well in Singapore is to become rich and run multiple businesses hiring cheap foreign labour. This place is undeniably pro-rich and pro-business.

Yes, globalization has blurred boundaries and hence 'shipped' individuals across places.

For one who protests against expatriates, another promotes emigration. So it's up to us to stay or leave. If you stay, make sure you're the best in your field here. If not, leave for other options.

Have you not understood the modern framework of career development as opposed to conventional one? A cog in the wheel and mere job security to empowerment and the ability to do anything, anywhere, anytime at any given notice.

Inneart,

If i can simplify your statements,
You are saying , the fittest survive. The rest drool.

Well, that being the case. Look at it this way.

Every nation has people in top , middle and bottom.

It goes without saying the top can be anywhere in the world. So the question is why should they stay here in Singapore?

Let me put to you one view without many words.

They stay here because they can be top without doing anything to help the bottom and anyone here for that matter. When things get bad here, just move on to the next nation without any consequences.

Other nations, they will get tax super high , or in some ways of helping the local economy, they will be asked to "give back".


As one FT once said in my face, your government give me free education, free lodging and even offer me citizenship so i can even travel easily to other nations. And because FT works in MNC, he dont even bother to serve their bond here other than paying taxes for 5 years. FT bought HDB flat, rent it out out to others within 1 year. He is blantly flouting rules of the HDB flat but he doesnt care because if he is caught, he just have to sell back the HDB at market price.

So tell me , how do you respond if such FT comes to your face and tells you this.

Well, I mentioned earlier that I stood 70% on the side against the FTs.

Such scenarios are most unforeseeable therefore we should do our own critical examination and seek to be the top.

well i dont think it just about seeking to be number one.
i just feel we arent even treated the same as ft in my own country.

to give more egs

singaporeans we have to serve ns. FT dont. even if they come in b4 18 etc.
we are told we r quitters if we leave this country for a better place. they are labelled as talents...
we dont get any special study grants even if we produce the same class honors as ft...
if u need a scholarship , we have to fight both local and ft for a local scholarship
u try to get hdb with parents cannot because parents own hdb. ft can apply for hdb andn form a family concept with their parents whom r on permanent pass..... oh yeah, their parents own property outside sg but can u catch them ?
singaporean males got to do reservist... why cant ft be asked to give time to singapore in other ways ?

the list goes on...

if singaporean goes to any other country, and i really wish to know which other country can give us the same perks we give ft....as i will seriously consider going there....

only recently we have asked these ft to learn to sing our national anthem.
go watch how our ft sport players sing it when they win a medal for singapore....it is just smile and move mouth without words....

oh yeah... and if they eArn enough here.. just go marry someone from their home country and be a citizen again...WITHOUT penalty....

i was not against ft but after working with so many and for so long, i just dont see how the playing field is fair...and i am in my own country... and this is the same thing my ft says to me... at first i thought only one or two such ungrateful idiots.... until i worked in a company which is hq overseas... and singaporeans r treated like dirt there and my ft colleagues tell me these things in the face.....n to all singaporeans there....

i have learnt that unfortunately we singaporeans r so used to being abused we just suck it up... and even if we want to complain, who can we complain to ?
make too much noise only kanna wack further...

The uneven playing field starts even before work, at school.

It is well known (on the internet at least) that fully paid scholarships and allowances are given to foreigners to study at local universities. How and why did the foreigners come? They were INVITED, none other than by the Singapore government e.g. adverts were placed in local newspapers abroad, events organised abroad. The quality of these foreign students, particularly in recent years, is questionable. It has come to the point that a lousier foreigner can win a scholarship over a better Singaporean. Come graduation, the foreigner has zero student debt, whereas the Singaporean has a debt of > 20k (4 years study). The Singaporean male also starts work later due to NS, losing two years of income.

Why are foreigners treated better than Singaporeans? Is it because most Singaporeans are unlikely to leave our families here, and will put up with most things, because we are a compliant lot? Is it because the government can simply get away with it, at least until the next election?

Can we trust the government to act in the average Singaporean's interest? Only if you are the ideal citizen (cheaper smarter faster younger tougher and thinks that the PAP can do no wrong), which then Singapore is perfectly suited to you. Work until you drop dead from exhaustion, then the hole gets plugged by a foreigner, no problem, so many here anyway. That is what extreme pragmatism does for you, Singaporean. Is that how you want to live, is that the country that we have become?

For the average born and bred Singaporean, when does it stop? Does it ever stop? Perhaps when Singapore is as cheap as China but as good as say Switzerland. I will be gone from this country by then, I don't like how it has become, and I do not trust my government anymore.

Where do you plan to migrate to? Has anyone here researched on which cities are the best to migrate to? I figure it's better to be a 2nd class citizen in another country than be a 3rd or 4th class one in Singapore.

I heard that the money from selling HDB (assume mostly paid) and from cashing out CPF is sufficient to get most of us investor status in some countries. Is it true?

Malaysia has this long term social visit scheme where you need to have 500k ringgit invested. Definitely doable for most of us. But it's not emigration.

Terms & Conditions

This is the link to read more about the malaysia as second home scheme:
http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

Adduce the source of the information that a lousier foreigner wins a scholarship over a better Singaporean. This is highly dubious. Foreigners have bonds to clear, don't forget that.

An ideal citizen does not have to be of the same mind as his/her government.
If you read my initial post, I stated that ONLY the mediocre or genuinely lazy ones procrastinate YET casts a shallow perspective on himself/herself. A card must be dealt multiple times in order to truly grasp the game.

For most of your foregoing points, I agree with you that our government is indeed, TOO loose in allowing FTs to gain PR and citizenship.

Nonetheless, if we really planned well and worked effectively, we could evade most underpinning crises like low-tier job competition and miserable remuneration. After all, like I have always said, a man's course is largely determined by himself, not by extrinsic factors.

Btw, FTs have to serve bonds. Contemplate this likened to a measure in-lieu of National Service, etc

If you check the china discussion forums, there are many examples of FTs getting away WITHOUT serving the bonds (I believe you are referring to those FT "scholars" who got a free-ride education in Singapore). It seems to me our government is unwilling to openly punish these recalcitrants for fear of offending them and creating a backlash and affecting Singapore's attractiveness to FTs. We are such weaklings and lackeys.

Even if they serve bonds, how can you liken it to NS?

Want proof that foreign students have it better? Plenty of proof
NUS Denies Scholarship to Top Local Talent Opinion TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS
Ex-Teacher: Discrimination of S’poreans starts from secondary school Letters TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS

Bond? Hahahahaha!
I personally know a Hong Kong scholar whose parents were her guarantors. She decided to leave, never serving a single day of her bond here. The family is based in HK, and never paid back the bond value. She is now working in HK. Recently she visited Singapore, evidently she has no problems re-entering the country.

I know Mauritius scholar A. Mauritius scholar B was his guarantor, and vice versa. Scholar A worked here for one year and decided to leave. Both A and B left Singapore, nobody paid back the remaining bond value. Scholar A is now working in Canada.

Personally, I would prefer that foreigners are not bonded at all because they compete with locals for jobs. But that would make a mockery out of the taxpayers monies given to these foreigners to study here. But in the light of bond-breaking scholars that go scot-free anyway, we are already making a mockery of ourselves.

Compare bond breaking by foreigners who Singaporeans. I know three (and counting) Singaporeans who broke their bond, each paid five-figure sums back. Is it because they and their guarantors are Singaporeans and are easily tracked down?

I believe that salary.sg is frequented by the above-average Singaporean who is probably better educated, better-paid and better-off, with family and friends who are comfortable. While you may have an easy life, and wonder what the fuss is about, be aware of and do not forget the fears and struggles of the average Singaporean:
Support Site for The Unemployed|Support Site for The Unemployed
The Online Citizen - A Community of Singaporeans
TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS – Singapore’s Leading Social-Political Blog – ?????

The better-off in society will always have it fine. They have the means, skill and the mobility to go to a better place in the world if they want to. Its the average person and the needy that we must help, and not make things worse off for them. For where in the world can the average person rightfully expect help, except in his own country? Yet its so different in Singapore.

Well, considering bonds akin to a lengthy stint that one must compensate and taking into consideration, true and legitimate scholars whom were assiduous in planning and making steps to attain an education here.

What of the proof deems to prove?

Of which demographics do these mentioned belong to? How wide is the scope of the proof?

This is, indubitably, not a strong reasoning as if a man has limbs and the tenacity to strive in our modern society, what kind of "fears and struggles" are you referring to? Monetary debts or family dysfunction? What is defined as better educated, better-paid and better-off if you weigh an average family with their average needs comparing it to a big and wealthy family with their needs? How you define needs and wants clearly stokes this my friend.

Lest you are telling me it's merely the repugnance toward stinking rich FTs whom scorn and look down on locals, that I can comprehend. What you are saying is without grounds.

I truly empathize legitimate folks who toiled diligently to obtain that scholarship yet to only lose it to some random FT, nonetheless, what are the odds ;)

Do our best and have faith to obtain the rest!

i look the world and see it as a very messy place.

the government has tried and may still be trying to attract rich and talented foreigners to singapore, so that they will bring some of their wealth over and
develop singapore with their knowledge.

in the process, singaporeans seemed to have been overlooked and as citizens of our own country, we have reasons to be disenchanted, especially since some of the foreigners that came to singapore are neither rich nor talented from personal experience.

some may argue that there are always black sheeps who make use of the singapore's policies for their own gains. in the first place, many of the resources used to groom these foreigners could have been used for our own people. many worked hard but cannot gain a niche in singapore not because they are not resilient or intelligent, rather they were not given the opportunity.

Guys, you can argue till the cows come home and still achieve nothing.

Go out there and carve out a niche for yourselves quickly. If you can start a business or build a personal branding for a service, do it now.

If you don't like it here, then Leave.
 

"According to Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy, 3 to 4 % of the top 30% of the population of Singapore emigrate to other developed countries every year. We are looking at between 40,000 to 60,000 Singaporeans* vying to get out of the country each year." ~ Source: SG- Quitters

I guess this sums up how much we "love" Singapore. :-)

I wish i can be one of those 3 to 4 % who are brave enough to emigrate. Unfortunately, i don't have the heart and courage, my beloved family and friends are here.

How about yourself, Hermit? Are you starting a business or building a personal branding or something?

If you think what they are doing with our jobs is bad, wait till you see what they are doing to our housing costs. This is what happens when a country is run like a corporation; bring in outsiders instead of promoting our own.

Pui.

Are Foreigners Stealing Jobs from Singaporeans? | MoneySmart.sg

I work in the equities department of a foreign investment bank. Every morning we gather downstairs for department breakfast before trading hours start. I dare not even bring up the topic of FT at all! Why?

MD is foreigner. The 2 directly below him also foreigners. My colleagues are also foreigners (if you are in the finance industry.. you know which type of foreigner dominate the banks now)

The other day they were making fun of how easy it is to get Citizenship. One commented that he don't even know the Singapore pledge, less so the National Anthem. I hear them discuss about politics and also bitch about the average Singapore.

I am a minority in my own country. Recently when there was a job opening in my department, they 2 fellas straight from India. Expat package. Bank even have to pay for their housing rent (Btw, they stay at upmarket condo in the CBD)

Too bad like most Singaporeans I can only complain. Every morning twist toes listening to the FT's conversations. .

Well, the number of the smartest 1% people in India is more than the entire Singapore population.

Singapore should just sell itself to India.

You are obviously not cut out for it thats why they chose those two FTs over you. I worked in London and was recently transferred back home here and I can tell you that you guys need to snap out of this 'FT stealing our jobs' mentality because this is not only happening in Singapore but it is happening worldwide. I worked in a FO position at a BB in London and I can tell you that 80% of people on my floor are not British. It's like a mini UN. And do the Brits complaint? Oh yeah sure they do but what can they do about it? Banks like to hire smart, motivated and talented people who can do the job. So quit whining and start striving.

Please, go. Don't like Singapore's government? Shut up, sit down or leave.

There are many of us who love what our government has done all these years.

It's sickening that this "Salary" forum has become another whining ground for the opposition supporters. Go back to Stomp/ Todayonline/ Yahoo or where-ever you scum come from.

You should shut up yourself. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. This thread is about FT and is naturally more anti-FT/anti-establishment It is not easy to move to another country. Given a choice, many of us won't be here.

One may find lots of foreigners in certain segments/vocation in certain foreign city/district but not in the entire country. Singaporeans are second class citizens in their own country. If I were a foreigner, would I move to Singapore if life here is only marginally better than my own home country?

I wonder if Singaporeans bring along their xenophobia once they become FTs too in other countries.


Do Singaporean immigrants in countries such as Australia and Canada treat other immigrants from India, China, Pakistan etc "as second class immigrants" even if they hold the same type of visa?

If other governments don't exhibit the xenophilia that the Singapore government so espouse, I'm sure the emigrated Singaporeans won't be as xenophobic.

"smart, motivated and talented people"? get real! who created the crisis that wipe out savings of millions of people world wide? no price for the correct answers!

you are a frog in a well, go out in the world and look around, ignorant fool.

you bet :}

ur a retard.