| 26-01-2016 12:04 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
actually this one although not politically correct to say is true lah. small minority really believe in serving the public for greater good to the society, but for most of us (i work in a stat board also) the main attraction is slower pace with work life balance & better job security. of course the drawback is career ceiling is lower unless you are a scholar.
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I am from the civil service as well and I don't like the way some people portray civil service as slack and do nothing the whole day. I will admit generally we don't work long hours, everything is very SOP process and structured to the point some will say is brain dead administration and work environment is quite relaxed compared to private sector.
But for most of us is just difference in priorities. Not everyone dreams of working day in day out non-stop to make big money. We just want a more stress free environment where we can focus more on other things in life other than just work. Just because we are willing to accept the fact we will never make top earnings in exchange for a life more focus on other things than career doesn't mean we sleep and get paid everyday.
The important thing is to know yourself what you want.
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| 26-01-2016 11:30 AM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
What I do disagree with is your assumption that government/public sector/civil service jobs are easy, and they are for laggards who aren't hard striving. I am sure some civil servants and public officers are offended that some people hold this view of them that trivialises their importance.
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actually this one although not politically correct to say is true lah. small minority really believe in serving the public for greater good to the society, but for most of us (i work in a stat board also) the main attraction is slower pace with work life balance & better job security. of course the drawback is career ceiling is lower unless you are a scholar.
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| 26-01-2016 11:23 AM |
| Unregistered |
since u want stable & predictable job meaning everyday do the same thing just apply for the smaller stat boards, low profile ministry or blue chip glcs like sia/singtel etc. dun waste time on ops or programming, lower pay, no job security and sunset industry. most engineering in sg got limited prospect, it-related even worse compare to the rest.
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| 25-01-2016 07:41 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
I have put in considerable effort to breakdown and explain in simple terms the complex market supply and demand situation for IT ops and programming jobs. You have not even extended the courtesy to address any of the points I brought up on labour market realit
Instead all I get are a bunch of one liner personal attacks and speculations on my supposed “anger”. It is ok to disagree, but it should be done on facts and counterpoints, not just baseless allegations along the lines of “you sound angry, so I don’t listen”.
Anyway it’s a waste of time discussing when you are more interested in getting personal then really understanding the dynamic challenges facing the Singapore IT space, you will learn it the hard way when you go out to work. This will be my last post on this.
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OK noted. I take it as you're a person with strong opinions. I do read and digest what you posted. What I get from you are the below, correct me if I am wrong:
- It is impossible to tell if IT operations or IT development is better.
- IT industry is flooded with foreign talents who are cheaper and higher qualified.
- It is competitive and will be off-shored.
- Buck up or ship out.
- If you do ship out, apply for government/public sector/civil service jobs.
- Else you need to buck up to take up more lucrative but high stress IT jobs.
As it is, it is a simple thread with the intention to understand the specific differences and trade-offs between a software engineer and operations engineer, and what to expect. That's it, no more no less.
What I do disagree with is your assumption that government/public sector/civil service jobs are easy, and they are for laggards who aren't hard striving. I am sure some civil servants and public officers are offended that some people hold this view of them that trivialises their importance.
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| 25-01-2016 06:47 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
If one is not a scholar, probably won't get even a chance to write paper. Writing paper is an art in the civil service, and it takes skills to do it well. One can send in his resume to apply for policy writing, and it goes straight into the waste basket. That's reality and don't make it sound as if anyone who bothers to apply for a "paper writing" job can get it easily. Do you think the civil service hires anyone who applies because paper writing is a simple brain dead job?
Understood. This is the most helpful paragraph yet. Either way can be heaven or hell depending on the environment. Then again, don't mind me asking if you're an IT professional who has been there and done that?
I believe anonymity online entitles one to use strong languages and politeness goes out of the window. Seriously, you may need anger management.
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I have put in considerable effort to breakdown and explain in simple terms the complex market supply and demand situation for IT ops and programming jobs. You have not even extended the courtesy to address any of the points I brought up on labour market realit
Instead all I get are a bunch of one liner personal attacks and speculations on my supposed “anger”. It is ok to disagree, but it should be done on facts and counterpoints, not just baseless allegations along the lines of “you sound angry, so I don’t listen”.
Anyway it’s a waste of time discussing when you are more interested in getting personal then really understanding the dynamic challenges facing the Singapore IT space, you will learn it the hard way when you go out to work. This will be my last post on this.
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| 25-01-2016 06:39 PM |
| Unregistered |
The trend is for both IT ops and programming jobs to be offshored or outsourced. Don’t talk about work life balance, I think even if you work 80 hours a week also hard to keep the job. Try networking in the banking industry, at least get into the back office and then apply to transfer to other safer places within IT.
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| 25-01-2016 05:49 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
to the poster above, most degree level civil service job require you to write paper or memo. how come you think only scholars writer papers?
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Depends on what kind of "papers." If we include any emails, memos or documents composed by any working level people, sure. Then almost all white collar professionals would be writing papers.
What I want to say is inside the bureaucracy, only certain high level personnel are entitled to write certain high level papers. Not the usual monthly reports or project documents that everyone churns out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
as for the rest i find the advices given quite accurate, dunno why the poster keep thinking people are just being angry. sounds more like you just want to hear what you want to hear.
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Well, when you see the vocabulary being used, and the tones in his/her replies, normal people can tell.
Anyway the thread is about IT development and IT operations, not about civil service "paper writing" jobs.
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| 25-01-2016 05:34 PM |
| Unregistered |
to the poster above, most degree level civil service job require you to write paper or memo. how come you think only scholars writer papers?
as for the rest i find the advices given quite accurate, dunno why the poster keep thinking people are just being angry. sounds more like you just want to hear what you want to hear.
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| 25-01-2016 05:29 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
What are you talking about? Most ministry level jobs are administrative and paper writing in nature. So many of such jobs in carres.gov and you cannot even find one which is repetitive, stable enough for you?
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If one is not a scholar, probably won't get even a chance to write paper. Writing paper is an art in the civil service, and it takes skills to do it well. One can send in his resume to apply for policy writing, and it goes straight into the waste basket. That's reality and don't make it sound as if anyone who bothers to apply for a "paper writing" job can get it easily. Do you think the civil service hires anyone who applies because paper writing is a simple brain dead job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
The problem with this sort of mentality is most experienced workers will tell you, its your boss and colleagues and company culture that makes the difference. It isn't about whether you are ops or development. You can't make sweeping statements on the characteristic of 1 department vs another.
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Understood. This is the most helpful paragraph yet. Either way can be heaven or hell depending on the environment. Then again, don't mind me asking if you're an IT professional who has been there and done that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
It is not about virulent hatred, your lack of experience is showing that you don't seem to understand the situation in the IT field. It is by far the industry with the highest number of foreigners, that's a fact and nothing to do with personal hatred.
These foreigners are mainly from India and Philippines and most of them have post graduate masters or PHD (credible or not is another story). If you want stable standard work, this will by definition mean some sort of service centre, helpdesk support or process outsourcing work. You will be crushed by them in no time because 1) you are the minority in office 2) they are cheaper 3) they have better paper qualifications 4) they are mobile and can easily relocate to a cheaper country
As a local if you want to do well in IT, you have to either move into large scale enterprise project management, business partnering, niche specialist or engineering sales/BD. These are definitely not the places that you can expect to sit back, relax one corner, work life balance and go through motion doing repetitive process everyday.
In summary, either buck up and change your attitude or go find general work in a stable organization. Don't be an idiot who gets retrenched at 30 years old due to lack of competitiveness and ironically becoming the one with "virulent hatred" for foreigners.
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I believe anonymity online entitles one to use strong languages and politeness goes out of the window. Seriously, you may need anger management.
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| 25-01-2016 04:55 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbird
Public sector seldom if ever consider graduates for general admin positions, especially those of engineering/IT background. They usually do not have the general admin experience.
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What are you talking about? Most ministry level jobs are administrative and paper writing in nature. So many of such jobs in carres.gov and you cannot even find one which is repetitive, stable enough for you?
Quote:
I am listing down the pros and cons as I see it. Just to see if this is indeed the typical case as experienced by other IT professionals. I wish to set my expectations right.
I pointed out that IT operations can be quite OK if the system/SOP are stable and I do not object to working on weekends/off office hours, as long as the number of working hours do not go crazy. Not that it is all bad, and IT development is all good.
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The problem with this sort of mentality is most experienced workers will tell you, its your boss and colleagues and company culture that makes the difference. It isn't about whether you are ops or development. You can't make sweeping statements on the characteristic of 1 department vs another.
Quote:
Btw, it appears that you have some virulent hatred for foreigners for whatever reason. Every reply of yours, you have to bring them in. Did they put you out of job or got you fired? 
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It is not about virulent hatred, your lack of experience is showing that you don't seem to understand the situation in the IT field. It is by far the industry with the highest number of foreigners, that's a fact and nothing to do with personal hatred.
These foreigners are mainly from India and Philippines and most of them have post graduate masters or PHD (credible or not is another story). If you want stable standard work, this will by definition mean some sort of service centre, helpdesk support or process outsourcing work. You will be crushed by them in no time because 1) you are the minority in office 2) they are cheaper 3) they have better paper qualifications 4) they are mobile and can easily relocate to a cheaper country
As a local if you want to do well in IT, you have to either move into large scale enterprise project management, business partnering, niche specialist or engineering sales/BD. These are definitely not the places that you can expect to sit back, relax one corner, work life balance and go through motion doing repetitive process everyday.
In summary, either buck up and change your attitude or go find general work in a stable organization. Don't be an idiot who gets retrenched at 30 years old due to lack of competitiveness and ironically becoming the one with "virulent hatred" for foreigners.
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