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Originally Posted by bookwormm

Hi sofozen, no wonder I sensed something was different.

I wonder my chances would have been bigger if I had stuck myself to maritime back then, but nonetheless no point looking back. It is true that I should widen my choices, "beggars can't be choosers", that's pretty much my situation I guess.

While I am attempting to take my first step into the working world, I'm glad to have received your helpful feedback constantly. I am definitely exploring my options but I will be sure not to limit whatever path that is available (not to forget that I have a debt to repay and the interest compounds like crazy).

Originally Posted by sofozen

I am the guy who has been answering your queries earlier. I will use the ID sofozen going forward to avoid confusion.

Generally speaking, a trading process can be split into 3 main players:

3) Support / Research = This is where your market analyst job sits. Although it supports the trading side, it is basically a normal coproate support job no different from Finance, IT, Marketng, HR, Procurement etc in terms of pay & progression. Generally many people who take up these jobs harbour delusions of becoming a trader in the future, but it probably doesn't work out 99% of the time. So the poster on top is correct, if you had answered yes you want to be a trader during interivew they would have dumped you on the spot.

As a fresh graduate armed with just a degree without honours or any leverage in connections, my advise to you is to widen your choices and apply for as many normal corporate analytical jobs you can find in the market. No point getting hung up on selecting jobs that are closer to trading, you will just narrow your opprotunities significantly without really lifting your chances of beocming a trader in the end.

Originally Posted by sofozen

I am the guy who has been answering your queries earlier. I will use the ID sofozen going forward to avoid confusion.

Generally speaking, a trading process can be split into 3 main players:

1) Actual Traders = People who actually do the 4-6 screen trading, the only realisitc way to get in there straight is to have a mentor introduce you to the game and its key players. You can' just out of the blue put up your hand and say you want to be a trader and hope that people will be impressed in interview - this is just not the way the game is played in this field.

2) Trading Operations = People who handles the hustle and bustle of traders. These could range from execution of trades, liasing and ensuring compliance of contracts, supporting the traders in book management etc. Less difficult to get in, but very difficult of someone to just get a genenric business degree and apply for it as a fresh grad without related experience. They seem to prefer people who have worked in sell side brokerages for a few years.

3) Support / Research = This is where your market analyst job sits. Although it supports the trading side, it is basically a normal coproate support job no different from Finance, IT, Marketng, HR, Procurement etc in terms of pay & progression. Generally many people who take up these jobs harbour delusions of becoming a trader in the future, but it probably doesn't work out 99% of the time. So the poster on top is correct, if you had answered yes you want to be a trader during interivew they would have dumped you on the spot.

As a fresh graduate armed with just a degree without honours or any leverage in connections, my advise to you is to widen your choices and apply for as many normal corporate analytical jobs you can find in the market. No point getting hung up on selecting jobs that are closer to trading, you will just narrow your opprotunities significantly without really lifting your chances of beocming a trader in the end.

Originally Posted by bookwormm

There is the possibility of that being a trap and your words coming true. I feel that the interviewer is extremely skilled and well-thought when handling interviewees like myself, but I am leaving this problem till later while I send more applications and more importantly, if I do get the phone call at all in a month's time.

But in your opinion, how can a fresh graduate break into the energy trading side? If not for confidentiality, I would love to share my background to facilitate my request.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

this is a trap. there are looking to spend effort to groom a market analyst, not a trader. nor someone who wants to make the jump to a trader later on. too many analysts left for trading jobs and its pissing every manager off.

Originally Posted by bookwormm

Thank you for filling me in on the industrial standards which I clearly am not aware of (even though I am still in awe after stepping into their office)! Regardless, I have to agree that those qualities are basic indeed and based on that I deserve no special treatment over my peers.

During the interview earlier, topics covered was nothing formal and it even went slightly personal at times. I am guessing perhaps I did not fare well enough in order for the interviewer to move on to those topics; since the interviewer commented, towards the end, that my cv looks better than the stack but my lack in confidence was questioned. I supposed that was derived by the question I was asked, "if I were to offer you a position in trading, will you take it up?" Naturally, as much as I would love to, I feel that my foundations are not ready for me to take on such a role since I understand the importance and risk of it. Perhaps I might have over-mentioned how I prefer to be prepared in order to minimize risk that made the interviewer feel that way?

Nevertheless, none of the expected scenario came up and I was told, without me asking, that the processing time will take around 1 month and I will receive a phone call then. Nothing about salary or starting date was prompted. It feels as if I have shot myself in the foot from some of the things I have mentioned during the session but nonetheless I must move on, time to send out more applications that is. Good experience/ reminder despite probably missing a good opportunity.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Unfortunately that’s not good enough. There is a big difference between the 3 giants (Exxon, Shell, Chevron) compared to the rest of the crowd like Schlumberger, BP, Connoco, Hess, Baker Hughes, BG, Total etc. which are quite big on their own. The 3 big giants are industry gold standards - they have the capability to maintain training & development budgets, pay out big bonuses and increments no matter what’s the situation, the rest as far as my industry peers tell me is more or less cutting cost like nobody business now.

As for your explanation that they are doing things last minute and ad-hoc because they value your VBA or SQL knowledge, I will have to respectfully disagree. IMO people with such basic common computing language are dime in a dozen in Singapore, it is unlikely that they will be so impressed with this kind of skills to conduct the whole interview process in this rushed manner.

Nevertheless, just down and take a look but be weary of pitfalls (3k+ for grads is nothing in this industry, so shouldn't be a prob). Rule of thumb is if during the interview all they care is when you can start and how much you want with very lax assessment criteria, then this is likely not a job that you can develop and gain meaningful experience. Good jobs are usually hard fought, if it comes so easily that it is more like they selling you rather than the other way round, usually is red flag unless you are really that good.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It is within the top 50 of fortune global 500 list. I suppose it's not that bad? I guess I'll have to get a better understanding when I head for the interview. Yes, the crisis is troubling.

Thanks for the tips, I honestly have no idea about gaining entry to that niche sector. I have previously tried energy related IB firm but unfortunately failed to move past the final round. I know it's difficult, but can be done *positive*. On that front, what advice will you offer to a fresh grad like myself in order to get into energy trading?

I feel that I am seeking a job that allows me to learn about the industry, never mind about high starting salary as long as I am able to feed myself and repay my student loans, I am more keen to learn than dreaming of earning more than I am worth now. I guess if it entails me doing mindless duties than I should be better off hunting for another job.

Perhaps the reason why the prompt response is because I have met most of the requirements they stated on the posting? I have picked up some knowledge on SQL and VBA back in poly, which most of my fellow course mates probably would not know at this stage.

On your last point, I am from local uni but I am not taking hons. Will that expectation still be reasonable?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Depends on what oil firm it is really. If it's the 3 big oil then prospects are very good as these co are big and not short of budget to grow & develop ppl. If its others then take note that the whole industry is now under crisis and best to be cautious.

If your aspiration is trader/broker, then this job doesn't help as energy trading is a very closed niche community, even more than other forms like commodities or currency. To get into energy trading is more about luck and picking a right mentor then anything else if you ask me.

TBH looking at the hap hazard impromptu way the interview and meeting is being conducted, I suspect the company is pretty disorganised and the job probably admin operational, i.e. they just want somebody to get in & do the work asap. No harm going down to learn more though...

3-3.5k is the normal asking pay for the 3 local uni degree with honours, so your expectations are quite reasonable and most companies should be ok.