| 06-12-2014 03:19 PM |
| Unregistered |
OP what advice do you need? Just go for the highest pay one. As long as the work is not too jia lat can already.
|
| 06-12-2014 12:15 PM |
| LynnYSG |
Instead of asking what people in the forum would prefer, it may be more helpful for you to rank your own preferences, based on either your past internship experience or intuition.
For example, I decided to take up a MA program at a MNC because my priorities were:
1. Global experience (there was a rotation in the US)
2. Work colleagues from different cultural backgrounds (I wanted to build skills working in diverse teams because that's going to be the reality of the future)
3. Compensation (they have structured paybands and levels that were higher than local organizations)
As for career progression, what I've seen in different types of organizations from start-ups to government agencies, and MNCs that I've been in is there is no 'track' that will guarantee you a smooth ride from the MA program to your VP/SVP level. Instead, the speed of career progression is usually directly proportional to the number of sponsors at the senior management level that you've managed to cultivate and add value to. It still comes back to your ability to build relationships and cultivate a strong network who is willing to endorse you.
|
| 05-12-2014 12:57 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water
Thank you. Have to agree with what you mentioned, which applies for positions like Goldman/JPM IBD, etc. These are reserved for the really top candidates, which I would like to put aside so as to be realistic with my choices.
I'll apply for all, but I'm slightly apprehensive towards Banks' MA programmes for the following reasons:
1) Banks' MA programmes are typically 2-years rotational, which you may end up in departments that you may not like (e.g. Ops & Tech, etc.)
2) Even if you end up in the Front-Office roles (e.g. Corporate Banking, Private Banking, etc.), they are after-all sales related, with performance measured driven by your ability to sell and maintain relationships with clients. There is a tiny chance (~1%) of entering IBD, but I wouldn't count on it.
3) Politics
4) Volatility of the banking industry
5) Pay is good, but not extremely good (comparing with BBs). In fact, the pay may be comparable to MNCs' Leadership Programmes (?)
In comparison, MNCs' Leadership Programmes are more towards 'managing the company', instead of 'sales/relationship management roles'. --> More visualisable career progression/exit opportunities (?)
However, even with the above, it seems that Banks' MA programmes are like the 'in-thing'? Is there something really good about the MA programmes that I do not know? Thank you.
|
no rotations will get you to IBD.
|
| 01-12-2014 07:44 PM |
| Water |
Thanks for the insights. Really helpful information that all of you have provided.
|
| 29-11-2014 12:36 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water
I'll apply for all, but I'm slightly apprehensive towards Banks' MA programmes for the following reasons:
1) Banks' MA programmes are typically 2-years rotational, which you may end up in departments that you may not like (e.g. Ops & Tech, etc.)
2) Even if you end up in the Front-Office roles (e.g. Corporate Banking, Private Banking, etc.), they are after-all sales related, with performance measured driven by your ability to sell and maintain relationships with clients. There is a tiny chance (~1%) of entering IBD, but I wouldn't count on it.
3) Politics
4) Volatility of the banking industry
5) Pay is good, but not extremely good (comparing with BBs). In fact, the pay may be comparable to MNCs' Leadership Programmes (?)
|
MA programs are typically for retail-side and commercial-side of banking. So you will rarely see MA programs for IBD or Sales & Trading (except for Citi and Stand Chart MA, which includes the S&T division). But it's still a good gig because of the promise of fast-track promotion and job training package.
You want high pay but don't want the stress or instability. Unfortunately, there's no such a good deal in this world.
As a young man, you should not worry about stability or stress. Now is the time to take risks, because you won't have the chance to do so later on in life. Go big or go home.
|
| 29-11-2014 11:58 AM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water
Thank you. Have to agree with what you mentioned, which applies for positions like Goldman/JPM IBD, etc. These are reserved for the really top candidates, which I would like to put aside so as to be realistic with my choices.
I'll apply for all, but I'm slightly apprehensive towards Banks' MA programmes for the following reasons:
1) Banks' MA programmes are typically 2-years rotational, which you may end up in departments that you may not like (e.g. Ops & Tech, etc.)
2) Even if you end up in the Front-Office roles (e.g. Corporate Banking, Private Banking, etc.), they are after-all sales related, with performance measured driven by your ability to sell and maintain relationships with clients. There is a tiny chance (~1%) of entering IBD, but I wouldn't count on it.
3) Politics
4) Volatility of the banking industry
5) Pay is good, but not extremely good (comparing with BBs). In fact, the pay may be comparable to MNCs' Leadership Programmes (?)
In comparison, MNCs' Leadership Programmes are more towards 'managing the company', instead of 'sales/relationship management roles'. --> More visualisable career progression/exit opportunities (?)
However, even with the above, it seems that Banks' MA programmes are like the 'in-thing'? Is there something really good about the MA programmes that I do not know? Thank you.
|
I would say MNCs offer different career tracks, but if you intend to only go for MAP, then it is not wise to restrict your options so early on.
Singaporeans have always been fascinated by the banking industry (not just MAs) because of the seemingly lavish lifestyle, massive inflated titles and perennial rumors of fantastic bonus have all created a myth on the overall industry. I have 2 friends in banking whom I know from grapevine that are not really doing well, but they sure know how to play the part of the "SVP/Director" in a social setting.
A few casual comments on the points you raised:
1. Rotation - That really is the selling point of any good MAP, if you are not comfortable with rotations and ambiguity in where you might end up, perhaps MAP is really not for you. For e.g. Shell (which is a more prestigious program than any of the 3 options you are considering) literally force their MAs to rotate jobs and/or geography every 9-12 months during their 3 year program.
2. Sales / KPI - Fair enough, if hard sales targets are not your cup of tea, then you should avoid going there. But do not write off all MAPs in banks as many are catered towards corporate roles and there is no expectation for the trainees to do any actual sales.
3. Politics - Everywhere, if you think the catfights at Unilever will be any better, haha good luck.
4. Volatility - True, banking is one of the most volatile industries around.
5. Pay - Yea, it kind of depends on your expectations. Most big MNCs pay better compared to general corporate/consumer/support banking, but if you compare to oil & gas or investment side of course no fight.
|
| 29-11-2014 10:47 AM |
| Water |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
To be more precise, all 3 you have listed aren't really top programs per se. No doubt they are good and competition will be stiff, but top programs would be those from Goldman, Credit Suisse, BOA, the 3 MBB consultancies and oil & gas powers like Exxon, Shell etc
Local bank MAPs are much easier compared to #1 and #3, so I would recommend keeping them as a last resort. But #1, #2 are very different to #3 in terms of career track, so its also a matter of where your interest lies.
But to be realistic, unless you really are the cream of the crop (which is unlikely since you mention you are from a local university), it is better to apply all and keep your options open. The question is more of who wants you rather than who you want.
|
Thank you. Have to agree with what you mentioned, which applies for positions like Goldman/JPM IBD, etc. These are reserved for the really top candidates, which I would like to put aside so as to be realistic with my choices.
I'll apply for all, but I'm slightly apprehensive towards Banks' MA programmes for the following reasons:
1) Banks' MA programmes are typically 2-years rotational, which you may end up in departments that you may not like (e.g. Ops & Tech, etc.)
2) Even if you end up in the Front-Office roles (e.g. Corporate Banking, Private Banking, etc.), they are after-all sales related, with performance measured driven by your ability to sell and maintain relationships with clients. There is a tiny chance (~1%) of entering IBD, but I wouldn't count on it.
3) Politics
4) Volatility of the banking industry
5) Pay is good, but not extremely good (comparing with BBs). In fact, the pay may be comparable to MNCs' Leadership Programmes (?)
In comparison, MNCs' Leadership Programmes are more towards 'managing the company', instead of 'sales/relationship management roles'. --> More visualisable career progression/exit opportunities (?)
However, even with the above, it seems that Banks' MA programmes are like the 'in-thing'? Is there something really good about the MA programmes that I do not know? Thank you.
|
| 28-11-2014 04:11 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water
Hi all, I'm an undergraduate in one of the local universities and will really require help in my career path (Finance). May I ask of the following 3 career choices, which will you prefer, taking into consideration career progression, compensation, stability, future prospects, etc:
1) Foreign Banks' MA (e.g. Citi, HSBC; excluding bulge brackets)
2) Local Banks' MA (e.g. DBS, OCBC, UOB)
3) MNC Finance Leadership Programmes (e.g. GE FMP, J&J FLDP, Unilever UFLP, etc.)
As a student, I don't have much knowledge and experience about the realities of the working world. All the information that I have are from HRs, etc. I understand that these are all top programmes (and hard to get into), but given a choice, which would you advice an undergraduate today to get into?
Thank you so much.
|
To be more precise, all 3 you have listed aren't really top programs per se. No doubt they are good and competition will be stiff, but top programs would be those from Goldman, Credit Suisse, BOA, the 3 MBB consultancies and oil & gas powers like Exxon, Shell etc
Local bank MAPs are much easier compared to #1 and #3, so I would recommend keeping them as a last resort. But #1, #2 are very different to #3 in terms of career track, so its also a matter of where your interest lies.
But to be realistic, unless you really are the cream of the crop (which is unlikely since you mention you are from a local university), it is better to apply all and keep your options open. The question is more of who wants you rather than who you want.
|
| 28-11-2014 12:19 AM |
| Water |
Thanks for all of your replies. Seeing the competition around me, I understand that it will really be an uphill battle getting into them. I appreciate all of your replies nevertheless.
|
| 28-11-2014 12:08 AM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
personally, I'll go for MNC Finance Leadership Programmes (e.g. GE FMP, J&J FLDP, Unilever UFLP, etc.). the rate of burnout in banks is just incredible.
|
I'd second this, I'd personally rather go for an MNC Finance position as well. That is if I could get it in the first place. Though you shouldnt hold your breath unless you at least have a first-class or a very good connection.
|
Topic Review (Newest First)
