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Yesterday 11:42 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
No matter how many capable people entering ST will not be sufficient to share the overloaded task. Organization too top heavy, middle management don't wanna do / can't do technical stuffs, all throw to Junior Engineers. Junior Engineers no progression due to top heavy structure, no career progression, no salary increment. Sooner or later will leave.

Middle/senior management too comfortable in position, after farming and enduring for X years finally drawing a decent amount of salary with old time benefits. Work hard draw $Y amount, chill and relax also draw $Y amount. Why work so hard? With their skill set & management skills can't find job elsewhere too. Therefore, hogging onto a lot of positions.

Why incur cost to re-structure from 4 sectors to 2 clusters with 7 different business areas in this pandemic? To create more positions at the senior management level. Else how to accommodate the so top heavy structure?
Well, no matter what, if you are still an engineer inside, won't you appreciate better if your HR gives you a peer that is more fitting to the role and will more likely to share your burden than giving you someone where you potentially have to spoon-feed him for quite a good period of time.

I understand that career progression is much harder now, where you must have what it takes to proof your worth instead of what happened in the past where people could just get promote after servicing X years in a certain role.
End of the day, I've seen someone jumping 2 employment grades within 3 years since joining...
Yesterday 11:30 PM
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
because fresh grads can only compete with other fresh grads in the market so the pool is much smaller compared to a senior position where you not only have to compete with singaporeans but also foreign talents that can replace you at a much lower rate. The fresh grad salary is also highly tagged towards the inflation rate due to demand > supply for now.

I think the issue is not fresh grads getting high starting salary but more of the companies not increasing the senior employee's salary. But then again, are the seniors worth their salary if foreigners can easily do their jobs at a lower rate?
But then again, are the fresh grads worth their salary if experienced foreigners can easily do their jobs at a lower rate?
Yesterday 10:53 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sadly... ST is doing #2 and #4 wrongly as my side...

I have seen quite a few of them leaving the organization within 1 year where they belong to group #2 but being paid with salary of #4.
Of course not to mention... There's also people on the other way round too where they are highly paid but couldn't produce decent output...
End of the day... still back to the point of HR being inexperienced in looking at portfolio which the priorize local degree grades rather than looking into details such as skillsets and traits.
(E.g an aerospace grad being paid around 20%-30% higher than a comp science private uni fresh grad in a programming related role. Ended up the most job was being given to the comp science graduate and he quitted eventually knowing that his peer salary when doing minimal tasks.)

I dont care how much fresh grad are being paid but what matters most is that we have capable entering the organization to share the burden of the overloaded tasks given to limited pool of technical inclined personnel we have in the organization.
No matter how many capable people entering ST will not be sufficient to share the overloaded task. Organization too top heavy, middle management don't wanna do / can't do technical stuffs, all throw to Junior Engineers. Junior Engineers no progression due to top heavy structure, no career progression, no salary increment. Sooner or later will leave.

Middle/senior management too comfortable in position, after farming and enduring for X years finally drawing a decent amount of salary with old time benefits. Work hard draw $Y amount, chill and relax also draw $Y amount. Why work so hard? With their skill set & management skills can't find job elsewhere too. Therefore, hogging onto a lot of positions.

Why incur cost to re-structure from 4 sectors to 2 clusters with 7 different business areas in this pandemic? To create more positions at the senior management level. Else how to accommodate the so top heavy structure?
Yesterday 09:51 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Let's look from this angle, the average starting salary for CS grads is 5k.
The companies have a few options.
1. Believe they can get better value from experienced hire with the 5k salary, won't hire any fresh grads.
2. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, willing to pay the market rates for these fresh grads.
3. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, but unwilling to pay the market rates. Put up a lower package and hope for surplus of fresh grads.
4. Always need a pipeline of fresh grads of any standard, unwilling to pay the market rates. Pay the bare minimum just maintain the pipeline.

Be glad ST is going with #2. The worse it can do is #4, which it can pretty much cement its poor reputation in the labour market.

Seriously, in this market now, if you're a senior engineer who is still stuck with 5k salary, you can only blame yourself.
Sadly... ST is doing #2 and #4 wrongly as my side...

I have seen quite a few of them leaving the organization within 1 year where they belong to group #2 but being paid with salary of #4.
Of course not to mention... There's also people on the other way round too where they are highly paid but couldn't produce decent output...
End of the day... still back to the point of HR being inexperienced in looking at portfolio which the priorize local degree grades rather than looking into details such as skillsets and traits.
(E.g an aerospace grad being paid around 20%-30% higher than a comp science private uni fresh grad in a programming related role. Ended up the most job was being given to the comp science graduate and he quitted eventually knowing that his peer salary when doing minimal tasks.)

I dont care how much fresh grad are being paid but what matters most is that we have capable entering the organization to share the burden of the overloaded tasks given to limited pool of technical inclined personnel we have in the organization.
Yesterday 09:17 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Fresh grad expects 5k starting pay. And 1k annual increment? And 5 months bonus right?
because fresh grads can only compete with other fresh grads in the market so the pool is much smaller compared to a senior position where you not only have to compete with singaporeans but also foreign talents that can replace you at a much lower rate. The fresh grad salary is also highly tagged towards the inflation rate due to demand > supply for now.

I think the issue is not fresh grads getting high starting salary but more of the companies not increasing the senior employee's salary. But then again, are the seniors worth their salary if foreigners can easily do their jobs at a lower rate?
Yesterday 07:05 PM
Unregistered Let's look from this angle, the average starting salary for CS grads is 5k.
The companies have a few options.
1. Believe they can get better value from experienced hire with the 5k salary, won't hire any fresh grads.
2. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, willing to pay the market rates for these fresh grads.
3. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, but unwilling to pay the market rates. Put up a lower package and hope for surplus of fresh grads.
4. Always need a pipeline of fresh grads of any standard, unwilling to pay the market rates. Pay the bare minimum just maintain the pipeline.

Be glad ST is going with #2. The worse it can do is #4, which it can pretty much cement its poor reputation in the labour market.

Seriously, in this market now, if you're a senior engineer who is still stuck with 5k salary, you can only blame yourself.
Yesterday 05:37 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Fresh grad expects 5k starting pay. And 1k annual increment? And 5 months bonus right?
well im just referring like lets say you know this position you applied for is offer 5k, are you gonna put your expected as 3.8k? since you know the rate you will probably put within the range.

but of course not saying fresh grad should expect such a high starting pay. the range should be reasonable
Yesterday 02:46 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Fresh grad expects 5k starting pay. And 1k annual increment? And 5 months bonus right?
Probably many fresh grads used the salaries of top jobs in survey and apply the expectations to all industries.

For example, finance and engineering pays are definitely on very different levels. Of course I am not saying there are companies that pay below market rates.
Yesterday 01:56 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
i think this is more of a character issue, than to label those FCH people.
i think expected salary 5k for fresh grad is overkill. but if you know the company can offer more, wouldnt you put more for your expected salary as well? or would you prefer to volunteer to take lower pay?

lets not be salty about it. put the blame to those who came up with the pay range if you all disargee
Fresh grad expects 5k starting pay. And 1k annual increment? And 5 months bonus right?
Yesterday 10:48 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Even some top tier FCH are really self entitled. Newly join as freshie want to act like boss.
i think this is more of a character issue, than to label those FCH people.
i think expected salary 5k for fresh grad is overkill. but if you know the company can offer more, wouldnt you put more for your expected salary as well? or would you prefer to volunteer to take lower pay?

lets not be salty about it. put the blame to those who came up with the pay range if you all disargee
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