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08-04-2013 06:10 PM
Unregistered Gosh you peeps are really childish
08-04-2013 12:40 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Typical MLM style talk, cannot refute logic then start name calling people as being negative.
haha, say whatever you like if that makes you happy.

I just cant refute illogical and delusional people.
08-04-2013 09:31 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Your reply clearly showed that you are a highly suspicious and negative person. And your 4 undeniable facts about TS as above is surprising! (are you his close friend, colleague or just plain delusional?)

I think its fair for TS to consider all view points, whether the super negative/doomsday as above or my so called "text book" answer.
Typical MLM style talk, cannot refute logic then start name calling people as being negative.
07-04-2013 09:03 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Yet another strawman.

We are talking about risks here, there are plenty of bad people out there. Experienced employees would have personally experienced or seen such cases occur frequently all the time. Office politics and back stabbing occur in most organizations, it is about acknowledging the risks and making a balanced assessment weighing on the chances of success before leaping in and going straight to the boss on such a sensitive topic.

You on the other hand made no mention of such corporate dangers to the freshie TS in your advice and simply brush it off as if it doesnt happen. First you accuse me of advising TS to just sit and hope, when I set out to disprove your assertions, you turn around now and switch the topic by throwing out yet another strawman that I was generalizing bosses as bad.



There are good and bad people in this world. Some key undeniable facts work against the TS:

1) He is a freshie, very limited experience in corporate politics
2) He does not know his boss character well at all, only with him a couple of months
3) He is not aware of the organizational context and history in which his boss is operating in
4) Boss gave a very uncommittal answer for him to take it slow, this is strong indication that things are not what it seems

These circumstances highten the risk of him not being able to assess the situation and his boss's character accurately. You on the other hand give generic text book answer like "depend on boss, culture, dynamic". Until you are able to give him concrete pointers on how to make a good evaluation of his boss, culture and dynamic, this is useless sloganeering equivalent to the age old wisdom of "buy good stocks".
Your reply clearly showed that you are a highly suspicious and negative person. And your 4 undeniable facts about TS as above is surprising! (are you his close friend, colleague or just plain delusional?)

I think its fair for TS to consider all view points, whether the super negative/doomsday as above or my so called "text book" answer.
05-04-2013 05:15 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The reason I refused to address your likely scenerios directly is because they doesnt make sense to me and they give me a feeling that your scenerios generalise bosses as:
1) unforgiving if you dare to raise any concerns
2) sadistic in underhand tactics to force you to leave
3) only think of cost-cutting and replacing you at the next available chance
4) Low in EQ and thinks badly of employees
Yet another strawman.

We are talking about risks here, there are plenty of bad people out there. Experienced employees would have personally experienced or seen such cases occur frequently all the time. Office politics and back stabbing occur in most organizations, it is about acknowledging the risks and making a balanced assessment weighing on the chances of success before leaping in and going straight to the boss on such a sensitive topic.

You on the other hand made no mention of such corporate dangers to the freshie TS in your advice and simply brush it off as if it doesnt happen. First you accuse me of advising TS to just sit and hope, when I set out to disprove your assertions, you turn around now and switch the topic by throwing out yet another strawman that I was generalizing bosses as bad.

Quote:
Indeed, if any of us have such bosses, we would be better off working somewhere. Which is why regarding my advice, I mentioned that it depends on boss, company culture, team dynamics, etc. It may be textbook to you but it worked for me and I hope it can work for others but I reiterate here now, it has to depend on boss, company culture and team dynamics. But pls do not generalise all bosses negatively. There are good ones as well as bad ones and you have to adjust your strategy accordingly.
There are good and bad people in this world. Some key undeniable facts work against the TS:

1) He is a freshie, very limited experience in corporate politics
2) He does not know his boss character well at all, only with him a couple of months
3) He is not aware of the organizational context and history in which his boss is operating in
4) Boss gave a very uncommittal answer for him to take it slow, this is strong indication that things are not what it seems

These circumstances highten the risk of him not being able to assess the situation and his boss's character accurately. You on the other hand give generic text book answer like "depend on boss, culture, dynamic". Until you are able to give him concrete pointers on how to make a good evaluation of his boss, culture and dynamic, this is useless sloganeering equivalent to the age old wisdom of "buy good stocks".
05-04-2013 03:57 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You have mischaracterised my earlier advice to TS.

I never suggested anything about HOPING boss have psychic powers to read his mind. In fact my suggestion was for TS to wayang and give up the job while preserving political capital to buy time and leverage to look for other opportunities.

You are the one advising him to talk to his boss HOPING that somehow his boss will be understanding and make good use of his talent. I have listed down many real and actual risks and repercussions from taking such a route, you on the other hand have neither addressed them nor suggested any tangible measures he can take to mitigate the risks if they materialise.
Your advice:
[Quote] "My advice is do not initiate such conversations unless the boss is the one who starts an in-depth discussion on this subject first." [Unquote]

Isnt this equivalent to asking TS to accept the situation, HOPE for the best and HOPE that the boss KNOWS what his concerns are and talks to him about it? Even the boss has psychic powers and offers to talk to TS about the situation, isnt it too late because the boss already can tell and already know TS is too free all this while?

The reason I refused to address your likely scenerios directly is because they doesnt make sense to me and they give me a feeling that your scenerios generalise bosses as:
1) unforgiving if you dare to raise any concerns
2) sadistic in underhand tactics to force you to leave
3) only think of cost-cutting and replacing you at the next available chance
4) Low in EQ and thinks badly of employees

Indeed, if any of us have such bosses, we would be better off working somewhere. Which is why regarding my advice, I mentioned that it depends on boss, company culture, team dynamics, etc. It may be textbook to you but it worked for me and I hope it can work for others but I reiterate here now, it has to depend on boss, company culture and team dynamics. But pls do not generalise all bosses negatively. There are good ones as well as bad ones and you have to adjust your strategy accordingly.

Rather than trying to distract us by stating that I have mischaracterised your advice, I think you should re-look at yours in-depth because they are really bad in my view.
04-04-2013 09:45 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I think your advice to not initiate such conversations and wait for boss to start is not a wise one. This would mean u are waiting for boss to realise you are too free and also asking TS to accept the situation and hope for the best. I am shocked that you advocate being reactive and HOPING that your boss has psychic powers to read your mind and talk about things that matter most to you?
You have mischaracterised my earlier advice to TS.

I never suggested anything about HOPING boss have psychic powers to read his mind. In fact my suggestion was for TS to wayang and give up the job while preserving political capital to buy time and leverage to look for other opportunities.

You are the one advising him to talk to his boss HOPING that somehow his boss will be understanding and make good use of his talent. I have listed down many real and actual risks and repercussions from taking such a route, you on the other hand have neither addressed them nor suggested any tangible measures he can take to mitigate the risks if they materialise.
03-04-2013 08:26 PM
Unregistered <<<doing document tracking and data entry (Is that what a project engineer really do?)>>>

why not man, get engineer pay for clerk work, I would love to do that for the rest of my life....simple job....

better than doing all sort of saikang "stressful" job that you dunno how to do....
03-04-2013 07:49 PM
Bangers&Mash Thanks for the replies.

right now im keep myself busy by reading more of the technical aspects of the project, asking around abt the SOP. The situation could be better if i had a upperstudy instead of having myself to stumble around.

I did approach the project manager if i could help with more tasks before but his reply was to take it slow. Of course im not looking to run before i could walk but sometimes i wonder whats the point of maintaining excel sheets when no one seems to be bothered by it. The share drive was in a mess before i came, after i tidied up, its a white elephant.

Point of which, i spent 6 mths doing site work and the transition of pace of work is frustrating. Perhaps i need more time to understand the company culture and at the same time as some of you advise, look for other opportunities. :\
03-04-2013 04:07 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
This is just text book answer not anymore constructive than those who ask him to stay put and lobo. In fact it can be very dangerous if you are not careful in the nuances you unintentionally send to your boss.

Sure the ideal scenario is the boss value your feedback and finally put your talents to good use, but I think more likely scenario is:

1) Boss realise you too lobo and pile more work
2) Boss think you are one of those young punks who only want to talk strategy, do sexy stuff and refuse to do grunt work
3) Boss label you as flight risk and inititate back up recruitment to replace you, better he control the timing of your firing than you stunning him with resingation
4) Boss realise he is over-paying you to do simple work, makes life miserable to encourage you to resign so he can replace your h/c with a cheaper budget

Of course it is easy to say worse come to worse just resign and join another company, but to get a good role in a good company is not easy and under time pressure to grab the first available job due to any of the 4 scenarios arising doesn't help at all. Not to mention leaving a black mark in your CV for staying so short in your first job...

My advice is do not initiate such conversations unless the boss is the one who starts an in-depth discussion on this subject first. Meanwhile stay lobo as you can while covertly searching other openings. At least in this case you will have the luxry of taking your time to choose what you want, easier to disappear for interview because you dont have much to do anyway and before you know it you would have loboed there for >1.5 years which looks better in the CV.
+1.

Unless you know the boss character many years better not take the risk. All boss will claim they open to constructive feedback, but many will take offense and some may retaliate in real life.
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