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23-11-2011 12:15 AM
smart soldier Are you serious????? Army management isn't management at all! My Enciks and OCs were the reasons why I knew I made the wrong decision to sign onto the airforce. They always pass down the **** and never took responsibility or defend their men when things go wrong. Always blame the specialists, blame the situation, blame the environment but never willing to own up to their lack of sense and judgement. (I think they watch too much Singapore soccer; they are pretty much like the coaches) I knew there was nothing to learn from them the first year I entered proper into the ..... In fact, I was very certain as long as I do their opposite and grow bigger balls and be a more responsible person, I will go a lot further than them. In the army, it's all about passing the buck, no one's really solving problems. Smart people will wait, observe and then stay away or work as little as possible. Idiots will work hard and think they will be recognized or shoot for yearly "performance (wayang) bonus" of 2-3 months, peanuts (7k?). You find 1 guy working and 9 guys staring usually. Out of the 9 guys, 7 are just plain stupid and lazy, while 2 are really clever and were focusing on what's out rather than what's in.

Many studied, few succeeded in changing lines. Because you don't learn social skills. You can survive outside because you don't grow balls inside. You follow blindly and think the world is managed by rules and regulations on you. And yes, you are "managed" by fear and intimidation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience, this is quite the same as my journey as well although I'm from Army.

When I first leave the Army at 30 years old, I underestimated the transition and difficulties ahead.Somehow assume that employers will prefer me as a manager as I have a lot of leadership experience managing a lot of people on the ground. I figured I was leading 90+ men under me with 10 years experience compared to my peers who a lot of them are not even managers yet.

Naively applied for some managerial jobs and either no reply or never make it past first interview. Was actually getting very frustrated after 8 months of jobless until I met an honest enough HR guy to finally tell me what was wrong.

He told me what I had in the army was authority granted to me by the organization, not leadership skills. In pte sector, good managers need to use a combination of bribe, plea, threat, incentive and praise to manage downwards & upwards depending on situation. Throughout the interview I displayed no understanding of this and they could tell that I simply assume that since I had the was employed as manager, I will ask my team to do this do that etc.

Took a steep paycut and start from fresh by joining as a marketing senior executive. Now progress to leading a department & I understand how different managing a diverse group of people who may or may not report to you directly is compared to planning schedules, barking orders at NSF & Specs when I was in Army.
22-11-2011 08:50 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?
Aircraft Snr Tech. I think it is quite similar to what the Aerospace guys are doing now.
22-11-2011 11:36 AM
Unregistered I believe a lot of regulars leave the forces to work as property agents. Some agents I met address me as "sir".
22-11-2011 09:54 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Signing on as regular is quite subjective to people. After signing the bond, some straight away regrets. Because lack of freedom, too many guard duties, always jo bo lan (do nothing), and tons of useless project (so called improvement). Some even drag wearing the uniform in public places. Some decided to break bonds, but only to find that they can be released only at the last year of services. Some prefer to sign on forever, since it is stable, good bonus, not much stress, relax lifestyles, some can work shifts, etc. Some ppl just like to rot in it, so they like to stay inside as a regular. It all depends on the individual.

You should decide whether you want to continue the bond only after you sign the first contracts. No one can reallly decide for you.

I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.
Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?
The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.
Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?
11-11-2011 03:16 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.

The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.
Thanks for sharing your experience, this is quite the same as my journey as well although I'm from Army.

When I first leave the Army at 30 years old, I underestimated the transition and difficulties ahead.Somehow assume that employers will prefer me as a manager as I have a lot of leadership experience managing a lot of people on the ground. I figured I was leading 90+ men under me with 10 years experience compared to my peers who a lot of them are not even managers yet.

Naively applied for some managerial jobs and either no reply or never make it past first interview. Was actually getting very frustrated after 8 months of jobless until I met an honest enough HR guy to finally tell me what was wrong.

He told me what I had in the army was authority granted to me by the organization, not leadership skills. In pte sector, good managers need to use a combination of bribe, plea, threat, incentive and praise to manage downwards & upwards depending on situation. Throughout the interview I displayed no understanding of this and they could tell that I simply assume that since I had the was employed as manager, I will ask my team to do this do that etc.

Took a steep paycut and start from fresh by joining as a marketing senior executive. Now progress to leading a department & I understand how different managing a diverse group of people who may or may not report to you directly is compared to planning schedules, barking orders at NSF & Specs when I was in Army.
11-11-2011 02:14 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I ask this because i intend to sign on and study pt degree which most of us intend to. Which vocation can allow this flexibility like 8-5 ? And which vocations have skills that is transferable to normal cillivian life?
Signing on as regular is quite subjective to people. After signing the bond, some straight away regrets. Because lack of freedom, too many guard duties, always jo bo lan (do nothing), and tons of useless project (so called improvement). Some even drag wearing the uniform in public places. Some decided to break bonds, but only to find that they can be released only at the last year of services. Some prefer to sign on forever, since it is stable, good bonus, not much stress, relax lifestyles, some can work shifts, etc. Some ppl just like to rot in it, so they like to stay inside as a regular. It all depends on the individual.

You should decide whether you want to continue the bond only after you sign the first contracts. No one can reallly decide for you.

I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.

The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.
08-11-2011 09:03 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbuss View Post
No need married. Regular >2SG gets to stay out. But if your camp is so far, why bother? Also, certain units don't even require you to stay in.
I ask this because i intend to sign on and study pt degree which most of us intend to. Which vocation can allow this flexibility like 8-5 ? And which vocations have skills that is transferable to normal cillivian life?
04-11-2011 11:44 AM
Chua
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You are embarking on a quest to pursue your life and that's impressive for someone of your age.

I suggest taking up the offer and studying part time whilst in army.

For those who oppose this option, may I ask - what's the viable and betterer suggestion? After all, besides joining the army, he would be working in the private sector and we know that working in the private sector encompass extreme hard work and downsizing of profile by the employers nowadays.

Besides, we are facing an imminent danger of recession in Singapore that may take another few years to form up. The army is a blanket to shelter you from the shocks facing the economy. I don't suppose you would want to worry about your next month paycheck whilst studying for your exams. Even if retrenchment is not on the cards, given your age and starting pay, we would need to be realistic about how the employers squeeze you while retrenching other people! The job market would be bleak, should recession come.

For those who are in semicon industry, you would know that your orders are slowing down since last month, and it takes 6 mths or so before it tickles to the other industries such as banking, manufacturing, shipping, etc.

You are going to study anyway, but the decision is only: in the army, or private sector. Granted, the experience in the army does not bring you many places. But HR is not a pail of water in the toilet - they gauge your degree pay based on the date of which you obtain your degree. Hence, your 'diploma' experience is still, only diploma consideration for them; and that in turn makes your private sector experience irrelevant as well. It would be the same.

Of course, that would depend which industry you are going in. If you are going in Sales line, that wouldn't be a problem because Sales are dictated not by certs, but by solid performance. And that Sales experience is able to be carried forward. Now, if you are thinking, you would say: "But since Sales is based on performance, then what does my cert bring me to?" Precisely! Degree and diploma is not critical in Sales, in number, in figures. It is merely a tool to progress to management.... in the future.

Alot of people suggest that joining the army is as good as eating wasted rice, but that's the idea because you wouldn't want to have a lack of time to study for your degree.

Trust me. Because my wife has been studying for her SIM degree for the past 4 years and have yet to pass because of her work schedule. She always have to make choices to stay back for meetings (after work, mind you), and go classes. If she stayed back in office, she would miss classes. If she went for classes, she would be marked by her superiors because everyone else stayed.

Unless you are confident of finding a job where the schedule matches your preference, the army is a more suitable choice.


I would have to say it is a Yes/No case, because not all vocation are as suitable as it is. Some vocation offer time flexibility, but most not. It require time and commitment.

Wish to know more on what are your options, drop me a note at:

[email protected]
04-11-2011 10:15 AM
Ryan002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
sign on with air force positions. almost all positions give you transferable skills.
Hell yes. I agree totally. I was in the Air Force during NS, and I was actually able to use the IT training they gave me to get a temp job. It paid well and I was working the day after I left the camp.

Also, people joke about how air force is all paperwork. Let them be garang if they want. The air force paperwork teaches you a million things about office life, not least of which, learning how to make power points, use excel, type faster, etc. etc.
03-11-2011 06:28 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If want to sign on, at least sign on those vocations where your skills can be transferred to the outside world, e.g. technician. Knew of 2 friends who signed on as technicians and now working at engineering-related MNCs.
sign on with air force positions. almost all positions give you transferable skills.
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