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06-07-2011 11:19 PM
Unregistered So, to add to that...

if you are thinking of switch career via the masters degree path, then the door to your goal is the graduate associate programs.

Trying for jobs that other experienced hires who are already in the same industry will apply for is going to be fruitless because you aren't one of those same apples that they are comparing against. So your CV goes right down into the bin.
06-07-2011 11:16 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by esoteric View Post
up the thread for comments
I think this matters only if you are fighting with a group of people who are the same as you. For example, when everyone is a fresh grad, fighting for an associate position, then grade is one big factor.

If you are an MBA holder, fighting to enter a mgt consultancy as an analyst, then grade is one big factor.

If you are an experienced old hand in project manager, fighting against a whole load of project managers for the job, the company is going to choose the guy who has managed the most big projects, in the same field, proven track record. I don't it it matters if he comes from NTU and has a 4.0 GPA during his bachelor year.
04-07-2011 09:35 PM
esoteric up the thread for comments
30-06-2011 02:46 PM
Unregistered
cenine glocester

you have to work in a very local bank for jc to matter. almost nobody cares about ur jc credentials. this is especially so when the hiring manager is a foreigner who has no concept of jc.
29-06-2011 07:50 PM
esoteric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Look its a given that if you hv the right contacts in the company, or if u used to be an intern in the company, you have a better chance for FO roles. My answer above assumes that you have neither, and the recruiter is reviewing your resume on an unbiased basis.

Agree that internship and university results are most important and thought I had made myself clear enough in my post. if you have a singaporean screening, jc track record etc will play a part as well.

I'm not a recruiter but am on the business end deciding which of the HR screened candidates to call for an interview. So believe it or not, I leave to the forum, but tot I'd give my 2c ...
thanks for your opinion. it is good to have varying opinions whether it be from HR, Interviewers, CV screeners etc etc. After all, selection and interviewing can be highly discretionary. So it good to see what different people look for.

from what I know, people tend to choose people to are similar to themselves. for example, if the interviewer was academically driven, he/she would tend to be more inclined toward choosing those with stellar academic result because the interviewer him/herself is a model of success.
29-06-2011 03:39 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
please don't bs when you don't know what is happening. For FO job, we look at:
1) are you a known entity, ie are you already in the firm, or have worked for us, and/or have very good recommendation from someone we know
2) relevant work experience or internship at least
3) school, and by that i mean university, not jc, and results. nobody gives two hoots about which jc u were from, and most hiring manager, especially if he is a foreigners, don't know nor care about it
4) cca and prizes are good, but they don't really matter because if you are good, that would already be reflected in your results. and only top international prizes matter, like olympiad
or putnam. anything else is just an interesting (hopefully) talking point

as for the candidates, B and C stand out with C being the better choice since there is relevant experience. McKinsey experience is good only if i am looking for a business manager, not a trader. For sales role in FO, all of them stand a chance and it depends on who can speak and look best.
Look its a given that if you hv the right contacts in the company, or if u used to be an intern in the company, you have a better chance for FO roles. My answer above assumes that you have neither, and the recruiter is reviewing your resume on an unbiased basis.

Agree that internship and university results are most important and thought I had made myself clear enough in my post. if you have a singaporean screening, jc track record etc will play a part as well.

I'm not a recruiter but am on the business end deciding which of the HR screened candidates to call for an interview. So believe it or not, I leave to the forum, but tot I'd give my 2c ...
29-06-2011 02:27 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
With FO banking role being the flavour of the month, we tend to receive many resumes whenever we post an opening. Logistically it is challenging to interview more than 10 or so persons.

Here's some of the defining characteristics which stand out when we review resumes to select interviewees-
- relevant internships with prestigious firms (proves the candidate knows what he/she is in for from a work expectation, working hours etc perspective & as a qc check as well cos its not easy to get these internship)

- first class honours (upper 2nd ok if other traits are spectacular)

- track record of academic success (spectacular A lvl results, RJC/HC etc, prior scholarships)

- standout performance in cca (national lvl sportsman, president scout, student council president, etc)

- international contest winner for relevant topic

Of course, not all candidates will have all of the above, but many will have 3 to 5 of the above traits, with the internships being perhaps most important, with academics closely behind, then CCA after. Exceptional CCA performance may get you a look as well.

To be honest, we are very impressed with many of the people we are unable to interview, but the degree of competition out there is mind boggling. Suspect its because the media has really played up FO banking jobs in recent years so there is more interest these days.

Hope this helps.

Rgds

please don't bs when you don't know what is happening. For FO job, we look at:
1) are you a known entity, ie are you already in the firm, or have worked for us, and/or have very good recommendation from someone we know
2) relevant work experience or internship at least
3) school, and by that i mean university, not jc, and results. nobody gives two hoots about which jc u were from, and most hiring manager, especially if he is a foreigners, don't know nor care about it
4) cca and prizes are good, but they don't really matter because if you are good, that would already be reflected in your results. and only top international prizes matter, like olympiad
or putnam. anything else is just an interesting (hopefully) talking point

as for the candidates, B and C stand out with C being the better choice since there is relevant experience. McKinsey experience is good only if i am looking for a business manager, not a trader. For sales role in FO, all of them stand a chance and it depends on who can speak and look best.
29-06-2011 01:28 PM
esoteric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
With FO banking role being the flavour of the month, we tend to receive many resumes whenever we post an opening. Logistically it is challenging to interview more than 10 or so persons.

Here's some of the defining characteristics which stand out when we review resumes to select interviewees-
- relevant internships with prestigious firms (proves the candidate knows what he/she is in for from a work expectation, working hours etc perspective & as a qc check as well cos its not easy to get these internship)

- first class honours (upper 2nd ok if other traits are spectacular)

- track record of academic success (spectacular A lvl results, RJC/HC etc, prior scholarships)

- standout performance in cca (national lvl sportsman, president scout, student council president, etc)

- international contest winner for relevant topic

Of course, not all candidates will have all of the above, but many will have 3 to 5 of the above traits, with the internships being perhaps most important, with academics closely behind, then CCA after. Exceptional CCA performance may get you a look as well.

To be honest, we are very impressed with many of the people we are unable to interview, but the degree of competition out there is mind boggling. Suspect its because the media has really played up FO banking jobs in recent years so there is more interest these days.

Hope this helps.

Rgds
Looks like we have an recruiter for FO in BB banks here. Agreed that interviewing does consume significant time and resources. A typical recruitment day for a FO role in a BB bank (for c.a 20 canditates) can possibly include

1. Verbal, Math Aptitude test ~ c.a 30 - 40 min
2. Reading and write up on case study ~ c.a 1 hr
3. Presentation on case study to Associate/VP level staff ~ c.a 15 min
4. 3-4 rounds of interview with MD/D/VP/Associate/Analyst ~ c.a 15 m per interview
5. Group exercise ~c.a 30 min

Half a day seems like a short time. But the no. of man hours multiplied by the salary/hr of the MD/D/VP can aggregate to a significant amount.

Indeed the competition for FO roles, especially in Singapore, is remarkable. As a recruiter, could I pose a few hypothetical scenarios for your opinion? Who has the best chance? Anyone else please feel free to comment.

Assumptions
Jobs are for FO roles in Singapore

Candidate A
SMU, Economics, summa cum laude,
Internship experience: BB bank in Singapore, MO
CCA records: 7 (from scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the best)
Presentation skills: 8, ditto
Work Status: seeking first job after graduation

Candidate B
LSE, Economics, 1st class,
Internship experince: Top consultancy (Bain/BCG/McKinsey) in London
CCA records: 6,
Presentation skills: 8
Work status: seeking first job after graduation

Candidate C
University College London, Engineering, 1st class, top student of his course with multiple prizes
Internship experience: BB Bank, FO office in London
CCA records: 7
Presentation skills: 8
Work status: worked 3 years in a Ministry/Stat board, looking for career change (read in between the lines )

Candidate D
NUS,Business Admin, 2nd upper
Internship experience: Business Development in MNC
CCA records: 9 (Engineering Council Preseident, Sports Captain etc)
Presentation sklls: 8
Work status: worked 2 years in an MNC, looking for career change
29-06-2011 12:51 PM
esoteric
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon View Post
I think this question is a rather no brainer, good results will definitely give you at least an interview. Anything during and beyond the interview is based on your performance.

No one will interpret a person with good results as having no life outside of studies. One will however, judge whether you're social awkward based on your interview performance.

Relevant CCA records might give you the edge, but the fact is that you need to get your resume through the system, to the hands of the recruiting manager. Normally at the hands of HR, your resume will be filtered out by results already. I would say CCA records should only serve as icing on the cake, rather than being treated as a cake itself.

On another note, unless you have CCA/internship records like youth ambassador to the UN health program or something, that's a totally different story.

Looks like good academic results just gets you through the first door, i.e the interview. After that it does not really matter anymore. I believe Shell takes this approach. Once you get a slot in Shell Recruitment Day, results are inconsequential when it comes to selection; its all about presentation skills, EQ, business acumen and knowledge of current affairs, and most importantly, whether they "like" you.
29-06-2011 08:39 AM
Unregistered
view from a fo banker

With FO banking role being the flavour of the month, we tend to receive many resumes whenever we post an opening. Logistically it is challenging to interview more than 10 or so persons.

Here's some of the defining characteristics which stand out when we review resumes to select interviewees-
- relevant internships with prestigious firms (proves the candidate knows what he/she is in for from a work expectation, working hours etc perspective & as a qc check as well cos its not easy to get these internship)

- first class honours (upper 2nd ok if other traits are spectacular)

- track record of academic success (spectacular A lvl results, RJC/HC etc, prior scholarships)

- standout performance in cca (national lvl sportsman, president scout, student council president, etc)

- international contest winner for relevant topic

Of course, not all candidates will have all of the above, but many will have 3 to 5 of the above traits, with the internships being perhaps most important, with academics closely behind, then CCA after. Exceptional CCA performance may get you a look as well.

To be honest, we are very impressed with many of the people we are unable to interview, but the degree of competition out there is mind boggling. Suspect its because the media has really played up FO banking jobs in recent years so there is more interest these days.

Hope this helps.

Rgds
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