Salary.sg Forums - Reply to Topic
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Income and Jobs > How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Income and Jobs Discuss jobs, career options and of course salaries




Salary.sg Forums

Thread: How is life as a doctor in Singapore? Reply to Thread
Your Username: Click here to log in
Human Verification To prove you are a human and not a computer program that spams, please check the box below and answer any further questions if prompted.

Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 02:48 PM
liangan123
Kid Mask and Adult Mask

Our Medical Mask and Kids Mask have finally arrived
Price Discount to celebrate 2 June for the first phase of pre-opening
Receive $50 discount voucher for digital lock and $100 discount on My President Mattress with any purchase of mask
Kids Mask 3 Ply
$27 / 50 pcs (3 Boxes @ $25 each)
Kids mask (KN95 standard)
$29/ 30 pcs (3 Boxes @ $27 each)
Adult Surgical (Medical Mask) Hospital Use
$29.90 / 50pcs (3 boxes @ $28 each)
Every Box of surgical mask we will give one face shield for free
Purchase every 3 boxes will free one medical goggle
3 ply adult mask (Good Quality)
$28 / 50 pieces ( Call to match best price)
Also we only provide our customer quality and affordable mask.
No deposit is required
Meet up at Nearest MRT Station Free
Call 87838309 (Mike)
Today 12:23 PM
Palebluedot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I remember very clearly in 2003 during SARS that my salary was around $4700 a month as a 4th Year MO.

During that time my wife's best friend talked to her about buying condo in orchard road area. Investment. Her husband worked as a FOREX trader with HSBC.

My wife asked me and I looked at our bank account and only had 25k to our name.

Around 4 years later wife's bestie said they bought a total of 6 condos. And 2 had gone en bloc. Set for life. And he was making 13 months of bonus each year and earning close to $500k a year. Meaning total pay package more than a million a year. Myself? Became a GP. Was "happy" to make $10k a month no bonus.

How did they manage to buy? Banks gave generous loans with great rates to staff. Encouraged staff to buy. With low downpayment as well.

Tell your daughter to forget medicine. Go into banking.
Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?
Today 12:25 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I read all 114 pages. I am interested in 'How is life as a doctor in Singapore' because my daughter could be one 5 years down the road.

I am shocked to find out that the houseman/woman pay has not changed much, if at all, from 10 years back. 3.5k per month vs about 150-170k of education fee. A normal good degree can fetch you 4-5k if you join SAF or SPF or even becoming a teacher. 3.5k is poly diploma kind of pay.

I read through and got a second shock when one of you posted and mentioned that in 2003 [or 04], when he was a 3rd or 4th year MO, his pay was 4.5k. Same thing, no increment or at best, slight increment after 17 years.

Third shock, one can remain as MO and earn max pay of 8K if didn't manage to specialise or becoming a GP. You are definitely earning lower than an SAF or SPF officer or teacher here, yet your degree cost much much more.

On the other spectrum, you can become a specialist, the fastest, in about 10 years. You would then be an associate consultant but it seems that in fact, there may be no vacancy and you have to wait for existing AC to move up, move out or retired to take over the vacant spot? Same thing here from AC to consultant?

There is no guarantee that you can become a specialist. All MOs will fight for the training opportunities, if accepted, have to study, train and take exams before qualify to be a specialist? You may or may not get sponsored for the exam fee, which is costly? This is a very small number? I don't know how many in term of % of cohort can end up as a specialist/AC/C.

Is my summary the accurate reflection of the medicine landscape? My conclusion from the reading is that it does not worth the investment to become a MO forever. To lesser extend, it is not too bad to become a GP if one can't be a specialist and progress to AC/C. Even then, the competition is getting intense in the GP scene? If GP can't command at least 15-17k per month, and if in the long run, if GPs income drop to 10k level, then it is also not worth the long education and cost involved to become a doctor.
Tell your daughter to go into banking.

The goal is to earn as much money in the shortest space of time and retire early. That will NEVER happen with medicine.

Banker patients told me that the banks know where the economy is going. During good times they will extend loans to staff. Buy buy buy. Then when it is time to sell they will sell all their assets before the drop off in economy. Then buy again during the lows.

Banks control the money. Forget medicine if you care about money.

There is also no appreciation from people with medicine. SG people despise doctors.
Yesterday 11:59 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I read all 114 pages. I am interested in 'How is life as a doctor in Singapore' because my daughter could be one 5 years down the road.

I am shocked to find out that the houseman/woman pay has not changed much, if at all, from 10 years back. 3.5k per month vs about 150-170k of education fee. A normal good degree can fetch you 4-5k if you join SAF or SPF or even becoming a teacher. 3.5k is poly diploma kind of pay.

I read through and got a second shock when one of you posted and mentioned that in 2003 [or 04], when he was a 3rd or 4th year MO, his pay was 4.5k. Same thing, no increment or at best, slight increment after 17 years.

Third shock, one can remain as MO and earn max pay of 8K if didn't manage to specialise or becoming a GP. You are definitely earning lower than an SAF or SPF officer or teacher here, yet your degree cost much much more.

On the other spectrum, you can become a specialist, the fastest, in about 10 years. You would then be an associate consultant but it seems that in fact, there may be no vacancy and you have to wait for existing AC to move up, move out or retired to take over the vacant spot? Same thing here from AC to consultant?

There is no guarantee that you can become a specialist. All MOs will fight for the training opportunities, if accepted, have to study, train and take exams before qualify to be a specialist? You may or may not get sponsored for the exam fee, which is costly? This is a very small number? I don't know how many in term of % of cohort can end up as a specialist/AC/C.

Is my summary the accurate reflection of the medicine landscape? My conclusion from the reading is that it does not worth the investment to become a MO forever. To lesser extend, it is not too bad to become a GP if one can't be a specialist and progress to AC/C. Even then, the competition is getting intense in the GP scene? If GP can't command at least 15-17k per month, and if in the long run, if GPs income drop to 10k level, then it is also not worth the long education and cost involved to become a doctor.

I remember very clearly in 2003 during SARS that my salary was around $4700 a month as a 4th Year MO.

During that time my wife's best friend talked to her about buying condo in orchard road area. Investment. Her husband worked as a FOREX trader with HSBC.

My wife asked me and I looked at our bank account and only had 25k to our name.

Around 4 years later wife's bestie said they bought a total of 6 condos. And 2 had gone en bloc. Set for life. And he was making 13 months of bonus each year and earning close to $500k a year. Meaning total pay package more than a million a year. Myself? Became a GP. Was "happy" to make $10k a month no bonus.

How did they manage to buy? Banks gave generous loans with great rates to staff. Encouraged staff to buy. With low downpayment as well.

Tell your daughter to forget medicine. Go into banking.
Yesterday 11:26 PM
Unregistered Supply and demand folks.

Last I checked there are A LOT of students in Sg who want to be doctors.

Yes the starting pay is low. The cost of the education is high. But still so many applicants.

Why? Sg culture and mindset. Doctor is good. Prestigious. Make good money.

Tatler Magazine helps to perpetuate that idea.

Many doctors actually come from rich families and don't have to worry about money.
Yesterday 06:58 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palebluedot View Post
Passion alone can't feed family and other meaningful fulfilment such as provide a comfortable standard of living for aged parents. In fact, low pay is acceptable if it is commensurate with the cost of training for the job and output of the actual work. How can HO's pay remain relatively the same for 17 years? Is the medical fraternity think current landscape is optimal in term of pay, job progression vs workload and responsibility? 10 yrs is short but it does not guarantee success thereafter too if one get stuck as a MO and can't find GP job, for whatever reason. Unless you can vow that this won't happen?
Nursing pay is also low. In healthcare there are no cosy jobs.
Even swabbers take physical risk.
Yesterday 06:34 PM
Palebluedot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a doc. And wonders if SMA's pledge still holds? with $$$ bugging people's heads. First ten years is probably "eat grass" but once we find our niche, specialisation or going general or into management, things will pick up.
Passion alone can't feed family and other meaningful fulfilment such as provide a comfortable standard of living for aged parents. In fact, low pay is acceptable if it is commensurate with the cost of training for the job and output of the actual work. How can HO's pay remain relatively the same for 17 years? Is the medical fraternity think current landscape is optimal in term of pay, job progression vs workload and responsibility? 10 yrs is short but it does not guarantee success thereafter too if one get stuck as a MO and can't find GP job, for whatever reason. Unless you can vow that this won't happen?
Yesterday 06:22 PM
Palebluedot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
good effort reading the 114 pages, i have been following this thread for a few years now and you have managed to succinctly summarise the current predicament of junior doctors in singapore well. there are other threads on reddit singapore as well if you google "reddit oversupply of specialists" if you have not read them

did your daughter get accepted for local med school or overseas?

i completely agree with your sentiments it is not really worth it to start medical school nowadays if you have the calibre to get into medical school. the only silver lining is the job stability during this pandemic and the incoming recession.

while nobody can predict the market 5 years later, i dont think it will change that much residency wise and everyone will be flooding into the GP market. this will be made worse with the current expansion of medical school spots.

those who dont want to become GPs will either fight it out for residency as MOs or give up and become RPs. alternatively, they can be private hospital MOs or pursue alternative careers after their bond eg pharmaceuticals.

depending on specialty there is higher chance to get a spot in less demanded specialties eg rehabilitation medicine. for competitive specialties like urology, ophthalmology, orthopaedics i think it is gonna be even worse. they might give preference to scholars eg SAF, A*star or med school valedictorians or if they are some form of white horse. residency selection is less tickbox and transparent like in UK and more on connections and being well-liked in sg.

the current sentiment in the local med school is to encourage students become a gp or generalist in hospital to try to curb the demand of residency.

they can also try applying for residency in the US after their bond, or migrate elsewhere as a GP (sg specialist training is not recognised anywhere else in the world).

but i think if the student is not too aspiring they can probably live a middle class lifestyle while having a fulfilling job rather than being a corporate slave. this is the reality of sg being a small country with limited opportunities.

if the student studies abroad, there are probably more opportunities but risk of no job in sg after graduation. eg in the UK, specialty training there is quite attainable even the competitive ones but there is the mess with UK politics, poor pay and being away from home. the uk degree can let them work in australia/NZ easily and specialist training is also recognised in many countries. australian med school grads are finding it difficult to get a HO equivalent job in australia but when they do they can get PR eventually and are paid very well but still difficult to get specialist training. irish grads probably have to come back to sg as there are limited opportunities there.

gone are the old days of specialists earning loads in the private sector, only the absolute top students now will achieve that in the future.
Get accepted to LKC, which according to one poster here, is lowest in hierarchy when vying for specialist opportunities.
Yesterday 06:04 PM
Unregistered I am a doc. And wonders if SMA's pledge still holds? with $$$ bugging people's heads. First ten years is probably "eat grass" but once we find our niche, specialisation or going general or into management, things will pick up.
Yesterday 06:01 PM
Unregistered good effort reading the 114 pages, i have been following this thread for a few years now and you have managed to succinctly summarise the current predicament of junior doctors in singapore well. there are other threads on reddit singapore as well if you google "reddit oversupply of specialists" if you have not read them

did your daughter get accepted for local med school or overseas?

i completely agree with your sentiments it is not really worth it to start medical school nowadays if you have the calibre to get into medical school. the only silver lining is the job stability during this pandemic and the incoming recession.

while nobody can predict the market 5 years later, i dont think it will change that much residency wise and everyone will be flooding into the GP market. this will be made worse with the current expansion of medical school spots.

those who dont want to become GPs will either fight it out for residency as MOs or give up and become RPs. alternatively, they can be private hospital MOs or pursue alternative careers after their bond eg pharmaceuticals.

depending on specialty there is higher chance to get a spot in less demanded specialties eg rehabilitation medicine. for competitive specialties like urology, ophthalmology, orthopaedics i think it is gonna be even worse. they might give preference to scholars eg SAF, A*star or med school valedictorians or if they are some form of white horse. residency selection is less tickbox and transparent like in UK and more on connections and being well-liked in sg.

the current sentiment in the local med school is to encourage students become a gp or generalist in hospital to try to curb the demand of residency.

they can also try applying for residency in the US after their bond, or migrate elsewhere as a GP (sg specialist training is not recognised anywhere else in the world).

but i think if the student is not too aspiring they can probably live a middle class lifestyle while having a fulfilling job rather than being a corporate slave. this is the reality of sg being a small country with limited opportunities.

if the student studies abroad, there are probably more opportunities but risk of no job in sg after graduation. eg in the UK, specialty training there is quite attainable even the competitive ones but there is the mess with UK politics, poor pay and being away from home. the uk degree can let them work in australia/NZ easily and specialist training is also recognised in many countries. australian med school grads are finding it difficult to get a HO equivalent job in australia but when they do they can get PR eventually and are paid very well but still difficult to get specialist training. irish grads probably have to come back to sg as there are limited opportunities there.

gone are the old days of specialists earning loads in the private sector, only the absolute top students now will achieve that in the future.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +8. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2