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Yesterday 12:41 PM
Unregistered i think the GP route is a pretty low-stress way of making 150 - 200k per annum
Yesterday 12:28 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The people taking an issue with the $$ are conveniently leaving out the job security and prestige that comes with the profession. It would be valid if the job is barely paying a living wage or national median. If it helps, compare this with others working in their fields of “passion” which are usually much less lucrative (Arts, musics and such). And how about comparing to other jobs of equally noble calling? Say Teachers/ policeman?

Sour grapes maybe, but I feel they want it all and are being hypocritical about it.

Actually I don't think we are hypocritical about it. Most of us (esp the younger generation) openly say that we want the money. In fact, I have seen some of my colleagues choose certain specialities (procedure based) /go to private because of money. I am sure that there many doctors in the private sector charging high consultation fees/order unnecessary investigations because they want money. (Just look at the exponential increase in the hospitalization insurance plans over past 2-3 years, esp for private coverage)

I agree that our job is generally secure/safe from a recession, althought career progression is less guaranteed nowadays compared to the past due to oversupply of doctors.

Prestige- to be honest, I think this is old school thinking. If you have worked in the healthcare sector, you would have realise that most patients don't respect doctors nowadays, and complaint at the very slightest opportunity. (Recently there have been high profile cases reported in the media regarding the Ortho surgeon, and psychiatrist which most people think are just purely ridiculous complaints from patients). I spoken to some of my seniors, most of them prob receive more complaints than gratitude comments/cards throughout their career. (Of course some specialisation are more litigatious compared to others)

Healthcare workers, together with other essential services have received praise/gratitude recently mainly due to the covid situation. Prior to covid, no one really care about us. (I am not just referring to doctors, but the whole healthcare sector in general including our nurses and allied healthcare colleagues, who probably have it worse than us)

Sadly I think prestige/social status is largely related to your wealth nowadays rather than your occupation.


Btw, I am just sharing my thoughts, I am currently a unambitious mo who aspire to be a gp/rp. I am happy with 10k/month, but of course if can earn more then better la.
I am just sharing to clear some of the misconceptions that people/parents have about doctors before they rush their child to med school. In general, I think if your child has the ability to get into med school, he/she likely has the ability to make much more money in other sectors (eg finance or banking); send your child to med school if they really want to be a doctor, and not because of money/non existent prestige.
Yesterday 11:42 AM
Unregistered
Curious about the medical profession

Hi,

I just wanted to understand how long does it take for a singaporean male to finish specialisation and the bond?

Graduate from NUS (male ns) - 26 yo
Residency....
Specialisation....
Bond....

What's the average age for a singaporean male to complete the above
Yesterday 03:07 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The people taking an issue with the $$ are conveniently leaving out the job security and prestige that comes with the profession. It would be valid if the job is barely paying a living wage or national median. If it helps, compare this with others working in their fields of “passion” which are usually much less lucrative (Arts, musics and such). And how about comparing to other jobs of equally noble calling? Say Teachers/ policeman?

Sour grapes maybe, but I feel they want it all and are being hypocritical about it.
Agree.

I often see doctors saying things like my biggest reward is having my patients thank me. Or give me packet of nasi lemak.

Which indicates that these good doctors would work for free. I think they should make doctors work on volunteer basis. they can take donations. If you are not up to it don't be a doctor.
Yesterday 02:08 AM
Unregistered The people taking an issue with the $$ are conveniently leaving out the job security and prestige that comes with the profession. It would be valid if the job is barely paying a living wage or national median. If it helps, compare this with others working in their fields of “passion” which are usually much less lucrative (Arts, musics and such). And how about comparing to other jobs of equally noble calling? Say Teachers/ policeman?

Sour grapes maybe, but I feel they want it all and are being hypocritical about it.
26-05-2020 11:23 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palebluedot View Post
Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?
You see this is the problem. On one hand the doctors want to put up an image where they say they are not in it for the money.
But then they will complain $10k a month is too low?

So how much is enough?

Seriously if you are worried $10k is not enough then you should look elsewhere for a career. Law. Finance. Insurance. Sales. Trading. Political.

All the professions that have the term "vocation" attached to it, should be paid minimal. Historically the religious orders performed these vocations for free based on donations.

Teaching.
Healing.
Clergy.
26-05-2020 11:09 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palebluedot View Post
Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?
But that is the reality in Singapore.

$10k is not enough for you?
26-05-2020 02:48 PM
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26-05-2020 12:23 PM
Palebluedot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I remember very clearly in 2003 during SARS that my salary was around $4700 a month as a 4th Year MO.

During that time my wife's best friend talked to her about buying condo in orchard road area. Investment. Her husband worked as a FOREX trader with HSBC.

My wife asked me and I looked at our bank account and only had 25k to our name.

Around 4 years later wife's bestie said they bought a total of 6 condos. And 2 had gone en bloc. Set for life. And he was making 13 months of bonus each year and earning close to $500k a year. Meaning total pay package more than a million a year. Myself? Became a GP. Was "happy" to make $10k a month no bonus.

How did they manage to buy? Banks gave generous loans with great rates to staff. Encouraged staff to buy. With low downpayment as well.

Tell your daughter to forget medicine. Go into banking.
Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?
26-05-2020 12:25 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I read all 114 pages. I am interested in 'How is life as a doctor in Singapore' because my daughter could be one 5 years down the road.

I am shocked to find out that the houseman/woman pay has not changed much, if at all, from 10 years back. 3.5k per month vs about 150-170k of education fee. A normal good degree can fetch you 4-5k if you join SAF or SPF or even becoming a teacher. 3.5k is poly diploma kind of pay.

I read through and got a second shock when one of you posted and mentioned that in 2003 [or 04], when he was a 3rd or 4th year MO, his pay was 4.5k. Same thing, no increment or at best, slight increment after 17 years.

Third shock, one can remain as MO and earn max pay of 8K if didn't manage to specialise or becoming a GP. You are definitely earning lower than an SAF or SPF officer or teacher here, yet your degree cost much much more.

On the other spectrum, you can become a specialist, the fastest, in about 10 years. You would then be an associate consultant but it seems that in fact, there may be no vacancy and you have to wait for existing AC to move up, move out or retired to take over the vacant spot? Same thing here from AC to consultant?

There is no guarantee that you can become a specialist. All MOs will fight for the training opportunities, if accepted, have to study, train and take exams before qualify to be a specialist? You may or may not get sponsored for the exam fee, which is costly? This is a very small number? I don't know how many in term of % of cohort can end up as a specialist/AC/C.

Is my summary the accurate reflection of the medicine landscape? My conclusion from the reading is that it does not worth the investment to become a MO forever. To lesser extend, it is not too bad to become a GP if one can't be a specialist and progress to AC/C. Even then, the competition is getting intense in the GP scene? If GP can't command at least 15-17k per month, and if in the long run, if GPs income drop to 10k level, then it is also not worth the long education and cost involved to become a doctor.
Tell your daughter to go into banking.

The goal is to earn as much money in the shortest space of time and retire early. That will NEVER happen with medicine.

Banker patients told me that the banks know where the economy is going. During good times they will extend loans to staff. Buy buy buy. Then when it is time to sell they will sell all their assets before the drop off in economy. Then buy again during the lows.

Banks control the money. Forget medicine if you care about money.

There is also no appreciation from people with medicine. SG people despise doctors.
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