| 18-04-2015 01:16 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Yes you are right, they mainly do a simple excel download from what the agents enter in the recruitment system. Sometimes they arbitrarily make "adjustments" to the numbers to suit whatever their marketing agenda is.
I know I come off sounding bitter like got axe to grind with them, this is because I was involved in doing such a report for a famous MNC recruitment agency 2 years ago and saw the blatant disregard to data and analysis integrity.
Anyone who has some statistics or pricing background will bulk at the kind of primary school way they do the thing. The whole report is a marketing compaign meant to pyscho people to leave their jobs (professionally in the industry we call it "warming the market") and more importantly to generate press release so that hopefully they can get interviews in news channels, radio shows, business forums etc.
The whole methodology is just so flawed & childish that there is no way a layman job seeker can get anything meaningful out of it other than a general sense that you can get "higher pay somewhere else".
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Even seasoned hr job evaluators need many years exp b4 they can eval job hierachy properly. Getting telesales to do it is just garbarge in garbage out IMO.
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| 17-04-2015 04:19 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
OK noted, thanks for sharing.  I'm just taking this with an open mind from a layman point of view.
Actually I think it is more likely that they gather these statistics from job seekers when they ask your current salary, etc. |
Yes you are right, they mainly do a simple excel download from what the agents enter in the recruitment system. Sometimes they arbitrarily make "adjustments" to the numbers to suit whatever their marketing agenda is.
I know I come off sounding bitter like got axe to grind with them, this is because I was involved in doing such a report for a famous MNC recruitment agency 2 years ago and saw the blatant disregard to data and analysis integrity.
Anyone who has some statistics or pricing background will bulk at the kind of primary school way they do the thing. The whole report is a marketing compaign meant to pyscho people to leave their jobs (professionally in the industry we call it "warming the market") and more importantly to generate press release so that hopefully they can get interviews in news channels, radio shows, business forums etc.
The whole methodology is just so flawed & childish that there is no way a layman job seeker can get anything meaningful out of it other than a general sense that you can get "higher pay somewhere else".
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| 17-04-2015 03:44 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
No, these reports are worse than nothing. They are specifically designed in a way to entice people to move and also serve as a marketing promotion material to market themselves as "experts" in the field. Most of the time they give job seekers a wrong perception of where they are.
Also the fact that you think you can benchmark median or 80th percentile just by reading off a range in a job strongly indicates you don't have basic statstics and benchmarking understanding.
You are better off not reading these reports. I meant that in a serious sense, not trying to be denegrating or smug or anything.
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OK noted, thanks for sharing. I'm just taking this with an open mind from a layman point of view.
Actually I think it is more likely that they gather these statistics from job seekers when they ask your current salary, etc.
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| 17-04-2015 02:22 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
While I appreciate the sentiments, but which common job hunter is going to fork out thousands of dollars for a proper report? In the absence of these paid reports the next best thing are these free guides..
Given the range you can benchmark yourself. Are you median? 80th percentile? Underpaid?
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No, these reports are worse than nothing. They are specifically designed in a way to entice people to move and also serve as a marketing promotion material to market themselves as "experts" in the field. Most of the time they give job seekers a wrong perception of where they are.
Also the fact that you think you can benchmark median or 80th percentile just by reading off a range in a job strongly indicates you don't have basic statstics and benchmarking understanding.
You are better off not reading these reports. I meant that in a serious sense, not trying to be denegrating or smug or anything.
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| 17-04-2015 02:17 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
not sure what "manager" can earn 400k! anyway if you read the report they did give an indicative range of titles..
it is very easy to criticize but put it this way, if you were the one compiling the report, how would you present the info given the different titling conventions?
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There are proper professional ways to do it which involves sophisticated job evaulation techniques to access the job. Just that you can't expect people to spend time & expertise to do it properly and then offer you for free right?
These free reports are nothing much than a jr recruitment agent grouping a bunch of job titles that sound the same together and then just seeing whats the max & min they see from their own exp and say that's the range.
Don't belive me try to negotiate with any HR from an established company based on all these free pdfs and see how many companies will entertain you.
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| 17-04-2015 01:04 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Main problem is job naming. For e.g. some companies you can be a "manager" with just 40k while in others a manager can be 400k esp if regional or global responsibilities.
If you just leave school or first 2 years of working, no. of years working can still be good proxy. But for mid careers the progression will be so diverse that you just going to get a meaningless "average" or a very wide range like in the guides.
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not sure what "manager" can earn 400k! anyway if you read the report they did give an indicative range of titles..
it is very easy to criticize but put it this way, if you were the one compiling the report, how would you present the info given the different titling conventions?
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| 17-04-2015 01:00 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Generally all these free guides provided by recruitment agencies are not accurate as they mainly rely on job titles and years of exp which dont really mean much. Some of the range is so wide almost anyone can fit in. For e.g. IT Manger with 6-8 years exp with range of 60 - 110k. Come on virtually any PME job with that kind of exp is within such a big range. Tells you nothing.
My HR friends laugh at all these marketing materials whenever I mention, they told me the only way to get real and accurate data to know how much your job is worth is to buy proper reports from proper management consutancies.
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While I appreciate the sentiments, but which common job hunter is going to fork out thousands of dollars for a proper report? In the absence of these paid reports the next best thing are these free guides..
Given the range you can benchmark yourself. Are you median? 80th percentile? Underpaid?
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| 17-04-2015 11:36 AM |
| Unregistered |
Main problem is job naming. For e.g. some companies you can be a "manager" with just 40k while in others a manager can be 400k esp if regional or global responsibilities.
If you just leave school or first 2 years of working, no. of years working can still be good proxy. But for mid careers the progression will be so diverse that you just going to get a meaningless "average" or a very wide range like in the guides.
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| 17-04-2015 11:05 AM |
| Unregistered |
free guides
Yes the above is a good response. Companies like Hays etc publish these free guides but the range is so wide that it is virtually telling you nothing if you are hiring. If you conducting your own comparison then I guess you can tell where you are on the scale. Really difficult if you need info to negotiate on this data as you may be completely off the mark.
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| 17-04-2015 10:57 AM |
| Unregistered |
Generally all these free guides provided by recruitment agencies are not accurate as they mainly rely on job titles and years of exp which dont really mean much. Some of the range is so wide almost anyone can fit in. For e.g. IT Manger with 6-8 years exp with range of 60 - 110k. Come on virtually any PME job with that kind of exp is within such a big range. Tells you nothing.
My HR friends laugh at all these marketing materials whenever I mention, they told me the only way to get real and accurate data to know how much your job is worth is to buy proper reports from proper management consutancies.
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