| Yesterday 11:34 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustom24
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.
My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.
I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.
I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :
1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds
2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?
Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
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hi! i know a few people who had not so good grades in the earlier years but were able to pull it up later on when they took electives  and they even got into big 4 so i think just try his best to do internships and work hard, all it takes is a partner who likes you. honestly once you are interning there and the partner likes you, at least from my experience they don't go back and check your grades. so if he finds a partner who likes him and is lucky enough he still has a good chance of finding something good too (i've seen this!) otherwise as the rest said, he can definitely find a TC in chinatown or smaller firms if he is not picky. if this helps, i have heard of at least 2 people with GPAs of around 3.0/5 getting into dentons, so he could try there and they do not seem to be too picky about grades.
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| 14-06-2024 03:09 PM |
| rustom24 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Hi, yes to both.
1. Law firms look deeper into grades they did well in- fundamentals matter more (e.g. contract, tort, company, depending on area of practice) so if they did badly in e.g. consti law, jurisprudence, it may not matter as much.
2. Generally yes. For disputes or advisory/regulatory practices, grades are more important/required. But transactional and other practice areas may not require stellar grades, just "good enough" along with relevant practical experience, interest, motivation, and interpersonal skills.
2A. Note that answer 2 didnt really answer your Q2. But yes, internships can help a lot- more directly into the same firm for mid-small sized firms, and general transferability as to big4/int'l firms. Though it should be noted that if you fk up during your internship, or look clueless/bad, you will likely not get a tc at that same firm even though you did an internship there vs. a candidate who came from elsewhere who is more sound.
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Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer! Appreciate it!
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| 14-06-2024 03:09 PM |
| rustom24 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
1. He will get a TC if he's not picky about the firm, the pay, etc.
2. Yes, internships matter. If your grades aren't great, you can try to show you're a really hard worker and willing to take on **** without complaint, takes initiative and eager to please. Law firm partners are mostly just SME owners and like SME owners they love the employee that's willing to bend over backwards for peanuts.
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Thank you so much for the reply, appreciate it
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| 14-06-2024 11:21 AM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustom24
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.
My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.
I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.
I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :
1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds
2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?
Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
|
Hi, yes to both.
1. Law firms look deeper into grades they did well in- fundamentals matter more (e.g. contract, tort, company, depending on area of practice) so if they did badly in e.g. consti law, jurisprudence, it may not matter as much.
2. Generally yes. For disputes or advisory/regulatory practices, grades are more important/required. But transactional and other practice areas may not require stellar grades, just "good enough" along with relevant practical experience, interest, motivation, and interpersonal skills.
2A. Note that answer 2 didnt really answer your Q2. But yes, internships can help a lot- more directly into the same firm for mid-small sized firms, and general transferability as to big4/int'l firms. Though it should be noted that if you fk up during your internship, or look clueless/bad, you will likely not get a tc at that same firm even though you did an internship there vs. a candidate who came from elsewhere who is more sound.
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| 14-06-2024 10:41 AM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustom24
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.
My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.
I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.
I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :
1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds
2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?
Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
|
1. He will get a TC if he's not picky about the firm, the pay, etc.
2. Yes, internships matter. If your grades aren't great, you can try to show you're a really hard worker and willing to take on **** without complaint, takes initiative and eager to please. Law firm partners are mostly just SME owners and like SME owners they love the employee that's willing to bend over backwards for peanuts.
|
| 14-06-2024 10:01 AM |
| rustom24 |
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.
My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.
I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.
I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :
1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds
2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?
Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
|
| 13-06-2024 09:51 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
I'm at an int'l law firm. For many matters, we get outbid by the likes of b4 for ridiculously low quotes
Hell, even Bakers bid half our quotes.
It's a race to the bottom, and that's why assocs are bearing the brunt of unrealistic promises because Singapore law firms keep undercutting and undercutting
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Funny you say this, because I’ve seen true international firms (e.g. A&O, CC) undercutting Bakers as well. I think in Singapore honestly it’s a race to the ****ing bottom because of cheap clients. Good paying clients are very hard to find.
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| 13-06-2024 04:42 PM |
| Unregistered |
I'm at an int'l law firm. For many matters, we get outbid by the likes of b4 for ridiculously low quotes
Hell, even Bakers bid half our quotes.
It's a race to the bottom, and that's why assocs are bearing the brunt of unrealistic promises because Singapore law firms keep undercutting and undercutting
|
| 13-06-2024 04:32 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
It is a truth universally acknowledged by any practising lawyer that the degree does NOT matter. Whether it is a degree from a US, SG or African law school does not make one a better/more successful lawyer.
Why? First, the practise of law is not as academic; it's more procedural/administrative. You learn on the job and it does not take a dean's list brain to be competent (often, clients can't even tell the diff). Second, the ones who get promoted to "equity partner" are oddly not usually the 1st class honors from top unis - maybe God is fair - but the ones who have good connections (maybe thru family or a retiring partner) and make it rain.
All that said, unfortunately, SG law firms are cheap and pay like sh*t, so their assocs all jump to intl firms for $$.
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I come from Big 4 law firm and I agree. Can't wait to get out.
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| 13-06-2024 04:31 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
I don't think it is as simple an issue as just comparing an US lawyer vs a commonwealth lawyer given that an US lawyer with equivalent experience would have at least 4 years of age on top of the UK or SG lawyer (even when taking into account the lost NS years). Age plays a large role in how well lawyers are perceived in their role unfortunately.
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It is a truth universally acknowledged by any practising lawyer that the degree does NOT matter. Whether it is a degree from a US, SG or African law school does not make one a better/more successful lawyer.
Why? First, the practise of law is not as academic; it's more procedural/administrative. You learn on the job and it does not take a dean's list brain to be competent (often, clients can't even tell the diff). Second, the ones who get promoted to "equity partner" are oddly not usually the 1st class honors from top unis - maybe God is fair - but the ones who have good connections (maybe thru family or a retiring partner) and make it rain.
All that said, unfortunately, SG law firms are cheap and pay like sh*t, so their assocs all jump to intl firms for $$.
|
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