Eye Surgeon Lost 15k USD in Options Trading - Salary.sg Forums
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Investments and Net Worth

Investments and Net Worth Talk all about money making exploits, shares, property and building net worth




Eye Surgeon Lost 15k USD in Options Trading

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20-07-2008, 11:31 PM
Salary.sg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Eye Surgeon Lost 15k USD in Options Trading

Dr Francis Oen, an eye surgeon, is featured in the Invest column in today's Sunday Times.

Having invested money (and lost some) in stocks, property, exchange traded funds (ETFs) and options, I believe it's fair for me to call him a veteran in investments.

So maybe we can learn a thing or two from this veteran.

Dr Oen's best investments are in property. His first property more than doubled in value, while his 2nd and current one is up by 60%. Not surprising, considering that many shrewd investors think property is the way to go in land-scarce Singapore.

Property - good.

As for his worst investments, he has two. One is his Clob portfolio, and the other is - drum roll - options trading.

I'm sure he's aware of those options trading seminars that claim "X% profit in just 1 trade" or the like, and he would have attended them if he thought they are worthwhile. See my post on get rich seminars.

He lost US$15,000 trading options, and has given up on it (he switched to ETFs).

Options trading - bad.

http://www.salary.sg/2008/eye-surgeo...tions-trading/

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21-07-2008, 03:21 AM
Wayne---
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 2246

You can't really decide that it has been a bad investment only after you have done it, and very badly at it. Vice versa for the good investments.
That's why it is important to do asset allocation. One rule of thumb is to limit any exposure to a narrowly-focused asset/sector to no more than 10%.



Primary School English Grammar and Vocabulary Drills
Primary School English Grammar and Vocabulary Drills


SG Bus Timing App
SG Bus Timing App - the best bus app - available on iOS and Android


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
SGX Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
SGX Stocks [iPad] app
| SGX Stocks [iPhone] app
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:11 PM
Sam--
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 2371

The more highly leveraged a product is, the greater the risk, and options are at the very highest end of the leverage spectrum.

Property in SG, might be a shrewd and straight-forward investment but it requires high initial capital that not everyone may have access to and there are many barriers to entry, while options are highly liquid and easily tradeable.

They were invented to hedge large long exposures, then evolved to take speculative positions, and now to the frenzied approach of "easy money" we have today. Quick returns are great, but not so easy to sustain in this volatile environment. The Black-Scholes option pricing model is not able to price in forward looking volatility and investor irrationality!

If you are a serial gambler and cannot help yourself taking a punt, do cash equities instead... you risk relatively less.

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2008, 11:31 PM
neo--
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 2719

he must be an idoit that do not do proper research, read news and know how to read indicators properly, and psychologically not prepared to trade. In trading, psychology is the key. 80% - 90% in trading depends on psychology.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20-09-2008, 06:42 AM
5m10y--
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 2722

I say he got greedy and didn't do proper money management.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2011, 04:38 PM
Millionaire Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 275
Hermit is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5m10y-- View Post
I say he got greedy and didn't do proper money management.

15k loss is peanuts for him.

He has a day job as a doctor, no way he is going to be a good trader. But doctors generally make good money from their properties because they buy and hold for a long time.
Reply With Quote

  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:29 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
15k loss is peanuts for him.

He has a day job as a doctor, no way he is going to be a good trader. But doctors generally make good money from their properties because they buy and hold for a long time.
Ya man. An eye surgeon prob earns $50k to $100k per month, and the best ones will earn $5 to $10 m per year. So even assuming he's in the first category, $15k is only 15 to 30% of his monthly pay or $300 to $750 for the median Singaporean earning about $2500 per month.

Not significant at all !
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:45 PM
Millionaire Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 275
Hermit is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Ya man. An eye surgeon prob earns $50k to $100k per month, and the best ones will earn $5 to $10 m per year. So even assuming he's in the first category, $15k is only 15 to 30% of his monthly pay or $300 to $750 for the median Singaporean earning about $2500 per month.

Not significant at all !
You got your numbers correct, mate.

Eye surgeons are in a very lucrative trade. A lot of procedures and a lot of surgeries. Eye surgeries are also priced higher than some operations on other parts of the body. This all translate into a very skewed income advantage for those who specialise in eye.

Many surgeons can buy a car every month if they want. Many people just do not even understand how they can be so rich. $15k is really loose change.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2012, 10:41 AM
ahsun
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Smile Options Trading

Hi it's great to see different discussion on this thread but personally i would like to seek redress for options trading as i believe it can be a tool to generate passive income for us given that we know how to use it coupled with stock analysis knowledge. I always believe to survive in this world, each individual only needs a few tricks to generate enough passive income so that they can become self sufficient in the long run (Or maybe till retirement..) =) Just my thoughts...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsun View Post
Hi it's great to see different discussion on this thread but personally i would like to seek redress for options trading as i believe it can be a tool to generate passive income for us given that we know how to use it coupled with stock analysis knowledge. I always believe to survive in this world, each individual only needs a few tricks to generate enough passive income so that they can become self sufficient in the long run (Or maybe till retirement..) =) Just my thoughts...
How much passive income have you generated?

It is not passive if you have to spend time working at it. Do you say traders in banks are making passive income for the bank?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Options for poorer non-elite students Salary.sg Income and Jobs 8 22-06-2009 03:06 PM
Case Study 4 - How High-Income Lady Lost $33k in Shares Salary.sg Investments and Net Worth 4 30-06-2008 01:37 PM

» 30 Recent Threads
GovTech ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,659 Replies, 477,416 Views
Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
5,126 Replies, 1,681,382 Views
Constituency Manager (People... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
894 Replies, 535,807 Views
Factual Local Bank Salaries - DBS... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
591 Replies, 358,516 Views
How is life as a doctor in... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,452 Replies, 1,614,967 Views
Career as Teacher ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
4,340 Replies, 2,811,848 Views
DBS tech seed programme ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,267 Replies, 353,521 Views
NUS (National University of... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
151 Replies, 135,885 Views
MAS for Mid Career Professionals ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
778 Replies, 372,317 Views
Lawyer Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
15,543 Replies, 5,348,315 Views
How much are you earning per annum? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
13,039 Replies, 4,579,123 Views
SEA (Garena) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
54 Replies, 45,073 Views
Civil Svc/ Statboard - Typical... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
4,198 Replies, 1,972,295 Views
ST Electronics ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,481 Replies, 691,366 Views
MINDEF DXO (All FAQ on it) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
4,497 Replies, 2,761,269 Views
CSA (Cyber Security Agency) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
375 Replies, 132,151 Views
Comp Science Frsh Grad Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
630 Replies, 128,417 Views
Compare civil service salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
13,352 Replies, 7,881,413 Views
High Finance Thread ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
443 Replies, 143,715 Views
Bloomberg/Factset/Re... ( 1 2)
14 Replies, 10,903 Views
Compilation of MAs/Analysts Gross... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
873 Replies, 269,064 Views
JP Morgan ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
114 Replies, 72,618 Views
Singtel Management Associate... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
522 Replies, 189,570 Views
OCBC Bank
4 Replies, 300 Views
Fresh grad 2020 ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
53 Replies, 21,219 Views
Whats your net worth ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,902 Replies, 1,008,181 Views
Htx ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
60 Replies, 7,882 Views
SLA (Singapore Land Authority) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
33 Replies, 21,718 Views
CAD (Commercial Affairs Department) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
205 Replies, 157,627 Views
If you can't find a company here... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
52 Replies, 6,775 Views
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 05:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2