How do you define rich!
 

You can use both objective way or subjective (or relative) way to define if a person is rich or not.

Objective way is to define a quantitative value, say $10m. Anyone or household whose networth is $10m and above would then be considered rich.

Subjective way is by comparison. If your friend lives in a condo and you don't, you will say he is rich. Subjective comparison is the most common way that people "decide" who is rich.

When I bought a car for my wife, my neighbours said I am rich. I, on the other hand, think that my neighbours are rich because they saved more money by not having 2 cars like I did.

I find that there are people who feel the need to flaunt their wealth through material possessions. Maybe they are right. Because what is the use of money? You worked hard to earn money for a better life. And you do that by acquiring the material things like condo, cars, nice watches and go travelling etc. They know that they cannot bring their money with them when they die.

On the other hand there are people who will save every cent they earned. They spent minimally on themselves and saved and invest the rest. Maybe they are right also.

Of the two groups, who is the richer? The latter group would think that the first group is rich because of the material possession, and the first group would think that the latter group is the richer because they don't spend much.

You know what? I think the group that acquire material things to better their lives is the richer. Richer through living a fuller life!

The fullness of one's life is not determined by the amount of material things acquired.

The sooner one realises that, the sooner one will become truly rich.

Shallow mind.

Richness is not about material things. Wealth and material possession makes you look rich on the outside. True richness is what is in your heart.

Many rich people are not happy because they have lost their soul.

True richness is to be contented with what you have and having free time to decide on what you want to do with your time. Time is a priceless gift, once gone is gone forever. If you are already rich by most standards but still force yourself to be a slave to a boss just so that you can earn more, then you are not truly rich as you trade your precious time for that extra dollar which probably you don't need.

A truly intelligent person will know when to stop being a money slave. A fool is one who work so hard for material wealth beyond his needs not knowing the true meaning of life.

I dont want to say this, and I know it sounds mean, but you forced my hand by repeating this nonsense

People who cannot make it (or worse, are lazy) usually comfort themselves by saying that money doesnt buy happiness and that they are not slave to their jobs etc..

The hard truth is that they ended up being slaves to those who earned more than them and working harder! And because they cannot save enough, they will have to work even longer, while their bosses would have retired long before.

I thought what you wrote was even handed fair to all parties, surprised that people can still call you "shallow". Reminds me of my post blasting the other guy calling car owner idiots. I agree with your assessment, sounds like there is a jealous old man lurking around. Standard reply formula goes something like this

Poorer compared to him (Working)
work hard and you can aspire to be like him one day

Poorer compared to him (Retired)
Suckers, didn't work hard enough

Equal worth / higher compared to him (working)
Losers, cannot cherish time. Will kanna cancer and die without enjoying their wealth

Super Rich compared to him
Must be ill gotten gain, will have rotten children or some serious disease coming for them.

This is what Singapore has become I guess, people who just aren't sated with their own achievements and feel the need to constantly put others down or show off to them.

Actually I kinda agree with you, but just to add on some of my thoughts...

There's no need to be too obsessed about who is richer (materially) or who is richer (fullness of life). How "rich" one is can only be determined by oneself. Everyone is on their own journey.

For instance, a person chasing material goods doesnt necessarily mean he is vain. It also doesn't necessarily mean he is living a fuller life. He should know the purpose of his chasing of material goods. Example: is he working hard to upgrade to a condo so his kids and wife can enjoy the facilities? is he working hard to buy a car so that he and his family can go to far off places during the weekends? Do these material goods help him pursue greater family time? If yes, then he is having a fuller life by having these material goods.

Another example: is he sloughing away to upgrade to condo, s-class car just to show off to relatives at CNY? If so, then he must ask himself, at the end of the day, is this showing off making him happier? If yes, then ok he is having a fuller life lor. If not, then he should be aware of how shallow a life that is.

Ultimately, it is oneself to judge. As outsiders, lets not be too bothered by whether people are living fuller lives through wealth or not. Let's not judge others and their pursuits.

Oops was distracted by the debate above. Actually was looking at this thread for some savings advice, as I'm feeling a bit lost on my investment journey.

Combined for husband and i (late 20s)

House - 600K ++ (think still havent paid off 300k :( ) But renting out! :):)
Savings - 370k
Stocks, bonds, gold etc - 118k
Cpf - not sure, think about 100k combined (but anyway it is used to pay down house loan)

Cashflow: Every month we add combined total of 13.9k (savings) + 2.7k (rental income) into our savings). Means 16.6k of fresh cash savings each month.
Dividends - Im not sure how much comes in each month.


Anyway, given our age profile and cashflow, are we too conservative in our cash allocation? Should we perhaps allocate more to stocks? (For context, we contribute $600 monthly to a sharebuilding scheme). Is there a need for us to increase this amount?

I have also been reluctant to increase stock allocations and we are planning for a family and I am totally unsure how much money to raise a family. (Any advice on how much it costs as well?)

Thanks!

35 male, wife not working

House: HDB - market value about $700K (outstanding $390K loan)
Cash saving: about $1.1m
Stocks: $230K

Target to hit $5m all in all by 40 and further bless all my love ones around me, especially my parent. Doing sales and venturing into business

How do you intend to grow your net worth from $1.64m to $5m in 5 years? That is like increasing your net worth by $672k every year. Do you earn $1m per year? If so, what kind of business is this? Or are you a salaried worker? What sales do you do and how much you earn?

qft !

Hi, what is your occupation and your husband's? How much do you earn monthly? Your savings are a lot for your age

The Dynamics of the COE market in Singapore

Demand for new cars and COEs = fn (replacement demand, household income, stock market, property market, unemployment rate, job security, political and social stability, good government, economic growth, population, consumer preference and attitudes, expectation of future prices)

Supply of COEs and new cars = fn (replacement COE (determined by car deregistrations) + 0.25% annual growth rate)

Price of COEs is therefore determined by BOTH demand and supply functions (fn) and NOT just supply.

We have seen recently why even though the supply of COEs released into the market has increased, prices of COEs did not fall much and in fact continue its rising trend. This is not strange or unbelievable. Many commentators, who may not be trained in the Economics sciences, just look at the supply of COEs to wrongly conclude that prices of COEs will fall.

The fact that COE prices continue to remain firm and continue rising concludes that DEMAND is STRONG, VERY STRONG. It shows that people who scrapped their old cars will buy new cars. This REPLACEMENT DEMAND takes up the REPLACEMENT COE SUPPLY. The fact that COE prices rise means that ADDITIONAL DEMAND for new cars and COEs is FAR GREATER than the 0.25% annual growth of COEs.

What determines the strong REPLACEMENT DEMAND and ADDITIONAL DEMAND for new cars and COEs?

There are many factors and these are listed in the demand function above.

1. Household income – A rising household income in Singapore means that households can afford to own cars. Household incomes have generally increased over the past 10 years. It is common today for households with working couples to earn a combined $100,000 per annum. With such income, owning a $100,000 brand new car is not difficult as this means they are only spending $10,000 per year to own a car. This is only 10% of their income. If they spend another $10,000 per year on road tax, ERP charges, insurance, parking, maintenance and petrol, this is another 10% of income. Therefore the total cost for owning and using their car is only 20% of income. Compare this with taking the taxi. If each person spends $40 per day (go to work and back including booking fees), the couple would have to spend $19,200 per year. So, the opportunity cost of owning a car versus taking the taxi is small. On top of that, they will benefit from convenience and time savings. Private car ownership and usage is affordable, relative to today’s household income and taxi expenses.

2. Stock market and property market – When the stock market and property market do well, households can monetise their gains and use proceeds of their gains to buy new cars. Many people flip their properties, especially those who bought highly subsidised BTO flats, to earn big profits and hence enabling them to buy new cars. Eligible Singaporean households can buy cheap BTO flats TWICE. So lucky.

3. Low unemployment rate, job security, political and social stability, good government and healthy economic growth – These factors have given Singapore consumers the confidence to buy new cars.

4. Population – Higher population will translate to higher demand for new cars.

5. Consumer preference and attitude – New cars are generally seen as luxury goods for most people. Many people aspire to own cars, in particular new cars. Families with new cars gain respect from neighbours and family members. To be able to own a new car is a manifestation of success and social status. This has always been the case and will always be. More families are also buying two or more cars per household, given their needs. For instance, a professional couple may own two cars as each of them earn a high salary and they may need to move around in their respective jobs.

6. Expectation of future prices – In the immediate term, the expectation of a rise in car prices due to changes in the CEV scheme will drive many people at the sidelines to head to the showrooms to book their new cars now rather than in July 2015. In the longer term, there is also the expectation that COE prices will rise significantly in 2019 onwards due to the expected drought of COEs by then. Hence, those who want to avoid paying for $100,000 Cat A COEs will change to new cars NOW rather than in 2019 to avoid the scenario.

I hope this brief economic analysis helps those with little or no Economics knowledge in understanding how COE prices are determined. In summary, COE prices are determined by BOTH demand and supply and NOT just supply. Hence, COE prices will likely continue to remain firm and continue rising, assuming no major global economic shocks in the foreseeable future.

35 year old

OA: 190k (will be wipe out soon for housing)
SA: 45k
Stock + cash: 50k
Endowment: 20k+

parents retired in 50s with no savings hence most of money goes to there and 1k per mth for car

Your parents can sell their hdb flat for $500k. Then they can buy a two room BTO flat for only $15k (including subsidies). With the profit, they can enjoy holidays to Europe, Australia, NZ, etc. Enjoy life !!! Huat Ah !!!!!

saving
 

Age: 30
Education: ITE Nitec
Saving: 1million monthly
Housing: 5-story mansion (28M fully paid), Condo x3 (2.5M fully paid), Cove @ sentosa x3 (100M fuly paid)
Car: Audi R8 x1, Lambo x1, Ferrari x2, hyundai Van x1
Side line income: daily 10K - 100K

What a joke LMFAO

Middle income couple, 50 & 51, makes $187k pa in total.
Saves $70k pa.
Our 2 year old condo is paid up.
Our 1 year old car is paid up.
Our current savings (cash and CPF) is $700k.
Our total net worth is $1.5m.
We hope to retire by 60.

33yo male
Monthly income - 6100+
Annual bonus - ~5 months

Cash savings - 170,000
OA - 100,000+
Lost track of the savings amount in prudential.

Comments on my mthly savings and expenses
 

Age: 32 this yr, married with 1 kid
Housing: Bought 4-rm HDB at $323k
Salary: $7,140 per mth. Take home $6,140 per mth
Cash: $12k (reno and car ate up most of it)
Stocks: $60k


Savings per mth: $2k
Parents allowance: $600
Kid's playgroup: $750
Car installment: $530
Gym: $75
Insurance: $500
HP and Fibrenet: $78
Income tax: $300

Is saving $2k per mth too little?

Is your wife working?

Yes she is, earning 5k a mth

Regards,
Arrow

Your wife name bow issit?

Since you save $2k, does your wife save everything she earns or does she share with the household expenses?

her name is head

she also saves around $2k or slightly more. I pay most, if not all, of our household expenses.

Regards

Arrow

What does she spend her $3k pm on?

Age: 31
Education: UOL (local study)
Salary: $15,000 pm
Savings: ~$250,000
Car: fully paid up Audi R8
House: still with parents, intending to buy the sail, next to my office.

Age: 30
Occupation: Law consultant
Education: first class hons from local university
Salary: 18K per month
Stocks: 60K
Condo 60% paid up

Parents' allowance - $600
Child's presch - $750
Daily expenses - ??

She may save more than $2k, I don't know her breakdown


Regards,

Arrow

What's your occupation?

what head? c*ckhead?

Married both 35
No child no car
3rm flat worth 420000 at marine parade
(Loan left 170000)
Wife inherit a landed with 20% interest value btw 2-3mil
Saving of 250k cash
Insurance surrender value 100k

So bottom line
250k (cash)
100k (ins surrender)
250k (flat)
400-600k (landed)
1-1.2million net worth

R we ok ?

Yes, you are ok. Get a child and a car.
How much is your annual household income and savings?

No interest in driving a car plus some concerns in having natural birth.
Mayb adopting though

me 29 wife 24
cash 600k
stocks 250k
luxury watches/bags 100k
hdb half paid.

How much per hour for your wife? She must be spreading her legs a lot to be earning that much at this age. Sorry I don't do guys.

Age: 26
Education: N level & O level (local study)
Salary: $4,000 pm
Savings: ~$10,000
stocks: $300k
Gold: $10k
HDB fully paid
Car: Company car
House: stay in parent's HDB, Looking for new house.

I'm 31 and my wife's 29 this year. Appreciate if we can get some advice on whether our financial profile is decent and how it can be improved.

- Combined income of ~$210k/year.
- Owns a HDB (outstanding loan is ~$280k; and it's valued @ $510k)
- We both drive and both cars are paid up.
- Have about $260k of cash sitting in various banks (part of them is earning the OCBC 360 bonuses interests; some of them in time deposits giving a meagre 1.2% interest and the rest are just lying around depreciating)
- have about $50k worth of shares (earning about 5% dividends a year)
- we think we are adequately covered by insurance (total premiums of ~$24k/year in various savings plans; life plans; term plans and ILPs)
- anything in CPF OA that is investible has been invested in blue chips (earning 5% dividends as well); the rest of them are earning the CPF interest which is still higher than our HDB bank loan so we've decided not to pay off the loan yet.

We're thinking of buying some gold and also USD fixed deposits as we expect gold to appreciate over the long run and USD should be on the up trend in the next 1-2 years. We're also looking out for commercial properties (can only afford those which cost <$700k for now). Thanks and I look forward to hearing some good advices.

wow...seems like singapore is really a paradise....filled with so much cash-rich employees only in their 30s....hope it's true and these people are not sprouting nonsense...

or are you those making $4k a month only and trying to buy a car and EC when well cannot afford to? need to avoid outing with friends to save some money to ahieve those material wants so that can buy some 'face'?

I have shared my thoughts on your perception in the other forum "How Much Do You Earn Per Annum?"

Basically, people's perception tend to be constrained by their own circumstances and the environment and social circles they mixed with. According to one research article, people of the same income class tended to live in the same neighborhood. That is, the wealthy will congregate in wealthy estates, the middle class will live in middle class neighborhoods, and the lower income class will be clustered in lower income neighborhoods. In free economies, this is a logical and natural outcome since people will buy a home within their affordability. The interesting findings from the research are:

1. Everyone regardless of their income class tended to think they are in the middle class. This was because people regardless of whey they stay, tended to only compare with their neighbors in their neighborhood. And seeing that they have about the same stuff as their neighbors, they concluded that they must be average.

2. Because they think they are in the middle income class, they wrongly perceived the wealth gap between the rich and the poor. The wealthy tended to overestimate the income of the poor, while the lower income tended to underestimate the income of the wealthy. For eg, the guy earning $3k per month may think that the rich guy was only earning $10k per month when in actual fact, the rich guy is taking home $20k or more per month. Likewise the rich guy (with $20k per month income) may think that the lower income guy is earning about $7-8k per month.

3. As people perceived themselves to be middle income class, they tended not to accept that there could be large income/wealth gap. They would not believe in the first instance, if they see claims of income much higher than their own.

Although we lived in an internet connected world, where information are readily available, this kind of perception still persist. This is mainly because salaries are still not publicized and employees are bound not to disclose their remuneration. Very erroneous perception can also occur within the same company. For eg, a low level staff earning $2k per month may think that the directors of the company are earning $10k - $15k per month when in fact, they could be earning $50k per month!

I have friends who are power couples. Both husbands and wives are "rising stars" in their companies and they are only in their late 30s. Their combined incomes are around $400k pa or more. Another phenomenon I observed is that successful people tended to seek out other successful people. So, successful men tend to seek out / attract successful women. What you get are the power couples. By their 40s, these couples could be earning anything from $500k and above.

You don't have to believe anything posted/boasted by the posters, but to disregard high incomes earned by some people would be akin to burying your head in the sand.