Age:26 , retired , cash: 50k , Stocks: 100k, Unit trust: 150k, SGS Bond: 350k. Living by myself at fully paid condo.

I shared similar view on shares but not property. A real ******** will claim other is ********ing. You can just simply ignore them.

I hope to enter the stock market when it is coming down but would still purchase a property for long term (to pass on to the next generation).

Can you advice what stocks to look out for?

Thkq

UFxS ilaut
 

IMHO, I take a view of property in sgp as an expense rather an asset, regardless how many you own. Merely looking at the annual reports of banks, you will see most people buy sgp properties using loans, which indirectly means they don't own an asset but rather a liability. Also, for a planet that is 1 billion billion square meter bigger than the amount of land in sgp, it just doesn't make sense to own anything on the granite rock.

Secondly, during 1970s, a semi-D cost SGD100k when the M2 money supply is small and a bowl of fishball noodle is a mere 1 dollar or so. Now with inflation and so much money printed, a same semi-D cost SGD 2-3million dollars. If we take a linear extrapolation of this perspective, wouldn't the future property cost even higher making your children and children's children life unbearable even though they have a roof over their head. And should you take mortgage on this property, the actual cost of owning the place will be pointless since it looks like you only rented a place rather than buying it for inflation protection.

Thirdly, as a open economy running out of ideas to innovate and produce the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, running casinos become the last option. So unless, again IMHO, I can see a future with real productive economic value, owning properties in sgp is merely a way to lock you down on the granite rock (live the singaporean 5C dream whatsoever0 so that you have a feeling of sense of belonging even when the sky falls down on you. There is also a saying, when an economy starts building grand great buildings and infrastructure to empitomize its existance, it is the start of the downfall.

So being conservative, i rather be liquid and mobile, when it is time to leave, just like our ancestor from africa as ape, to china as chinese, to sgp as singaporean, it is time to leave. With decent cash hoard, renting and living anywhere in this world is pretty easy.

Until the end, we are mere atoms and molecules, monetary and status are pure human emotions and senses brought about to satisfy our own greed for better everything.

As for stocks, pardon me, I am not a licensed financial advisor. So no comment from me.

Live long and prosper. Good Luck.

You Are What You Think
 

You Are What You Think

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As painted, an individual has been working for 10 years after graduated and currently has a net worth of say $1,000,000 mainly in cash and various investments vechicles, (I would exclude properties). The logical way of thinking about achieving that would be: Divide that 1 million dollars by those 10 years and you have $100k per annum. You can then carry on to divide that $100k by 12 months to get about $8.3K per month - the amount that one needs to SAVE (yes, needing to earn even More to be able to do so!) every month for 10 straight years just to get a million dollars.

Sounds impossible to you? Well, impossibleto me I would say! At least, I have yet come across anyone who has done that.

Notice that I did not say that it is impossible to make that $1 million. The impossibility I mentioned about was taking that $8.3k-per-month-path to make it. Just by thinking about it already renders it impossible! So, what else more can you expect?

A shackled state of mind is more likely.

Wealth is never created in that manner - in equal proportions, nicely and evenly spread over a fixed period of time. Rather, wealth is accumuated in a rather unconventional and in a very uneven fashion. Mostly, a little at the very beginning and at later stage, in multiple folds, with each time greater than the previous time.

And usually before that can happen, the state of a (wealthy) mind needs to be set correctly. The paradigm: One must first Believe, and by believing, the possibilities of getting those which you want (or "who you want to become" as I would prefer to call it) will then more likely be drawn to you.

To attain great wealth, how about begin by having a healthy and positive mind? Always be mindful and selective with your own thoughts, choosing only those which are supportive and more likely to propel you in the direction you desire to move towards.

You become what you think of. Change the way you think and you change who you become too. Break that habitual train of thoughts and let the magic take place by its own.

2 Cents

35 yrs old. single. o level only. mthly 3.1k as supervisor. staying with parents in a landed property which may be mine someday because single child but not banging on it as it is belonged to my parents and up to them to decide what to do with it.

on hand only 235k in cash and stock. no car no outstanding loan etc. spent too much on socializing i think. not sure if want to settle down as the cost of raising a family is high here, even my girlfriend also scare. thought it is good to just be together as of now. with such little money, future looks bad. :(

The great wealth divide.
 

It is hard to say who is bulls***ting and who is not. However, I would not be too quick to rubbish what people write here claiming their wealth. Not many people are aware that the income or wealth gap in Singapore is really big. The rich are very rich and the poor - well there are many of us.

If I were to place myself at the point when I started out work some 20 odd years ago, I would never imagine being be able to own a condo earning just $1.6K a month. But now, after more than 20 years of slogging, and very disciplined savings, I find believable what people are claiming what they have and owned.

Just looking at myself starting off at very low base, my wife and I are now owning a fully paid up 4 bedroom condo (staying in), 2 x cars (fully paid), 1 x condo for rental (fully paid) and $2M of cash and stocks.

Yes, it is true that hard work and saving will get you there.

I glad to learn that there are many ppl out there who made it. And this motivate me to work harder and learn not to be complacent.

Kudos!

reality check
 

Singapore is much like the US where one can realise the good life (politics aside), no matter what social strata you started off from.

A simplified calculation below will show how a couple (possibly graduates) both working and starting a family young and with a first HDB home would fare financially through the years (20 yrs timeframe is used here).


Combined income Expense Savings
Monthly Annual (over 5 year blocks)
(with 3 mths
bonus)

1 to 5 years 6,000 90,000 40,000 250,000
5 to 10 years 9,000 135,000 75,000 375,000
10 to 15 years 13,000 195,000 80,000 575,000
15 to 20 years 15,000 232,500 85,000 737,500

Total saved over 20 years $1,937,500


And this is based purely on simple savings without interest and investment! If they are savvy and profited from their heavily subsidised HDB flat, and other investment returns, they could double or triple their stash! I tend to believe the above example is a very conservative one. Many couples would be earning much more!

Dudes, My wife and I are just over 50 years old and we each have over $900K in our CPF accounts (some in stocks and unit trusts) giving us savings of $1.9m through CPF alone! While its true that we both maxed out our contributions for the past 20 years and had a bit of success in the past investing CPF in stocks, most of it was just simply savings for the past 25 years since we started working.

Our combined SRS accounts are about $300K in value. We have been contributing since day 1 and have steadily invested in stocks since the scheme started. We're not agressive investors either.

So If you add our CPF and SRS, its around $2.2m already.... Even our combined CPF special account is around $280K. We have always tried to max out the special account since it earns 4%.

So everyone can be a millionaire through CPF and SRS :)

You're joking right? CPF money is not your money! I never consider my CPF balance as part of my wealth. I can't spend it!

So what if you have millions in CPF and SRS? It's the cash that matters. Now, if you tell me you have an equal amount in cash, then it's something to be proud of.

It is incorrect to say that properties are liabilities rather than assets just because there is an outstanding loan on the property. If you own a piece of property currently worth $3 million but the outstanding loan for it is $1 million, your net asset is $2 million.

I agree with you that one should not be too quick to rubbish what people write as ********, unless one is also saying that the person who posted this below is also ********ting.

"Households in the highest decile – the 91st to 100th percentiles – earn an average of $23,684 per month.

To compare your household with the rest, enter your monthly household income:"

whoever wrote that is indeed ********ting. ministers, pastors and charity CEOs all make millions a year - that's at least $100k a month. that's enough to skew the average in top decile by a lot. 23k is too peanuts. the stats must be wrong.

It's you who are the joker. Of course CPF money is our money. Do you spend everything you earn? CPF is just another form of savings and at 2.5% to 4% interest its a good form of savings.

Having millions in CPF and SRS does matter. I'd rather have my millions in CPF rather than the pittance you have in cash. By maxing out my special account, we get about $40,000 in interest every year. In fact, when I turn 55, unless I can find a higher yielding investment, I will probably leave most of it with CPF. I can take it out anytime after 55 if I need it. Better than the 0.2% I get with DBS.

You are just one of those people who aren't successful and are resentful that the Government keeps some of your money to make sure you are not a burden when you are old. Let me tell you that CPF was designed for people like you, who are mediocre and spend everything they earn. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Uncle you win ok? No need to put other people down. You are already rich with all your millions in CPF. That chap probably has much less than you (he didn't say), but even so, there's no need to belittle him. Moreover you are likely to be older than he is. Be more gracious, old man. Go count your millions in your CPF or fly a kite or something.

The data in "KEY HOUSEHOLD INCOME TRENDS, 2010" have been grouped into 10 deciles hence the skewing only distorts the top decile.

Benchmark Your Household Income 2011 | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore

Some key numbers:
Your household income of $9,230 is higher than 70.0% of all households.
Your household income of $11,450 is higher than 80.0% of all households.
Your household income of $18,300 is higher than 90.0% of all households.
Your household income of $23,500 is higher than 94.8% of all households.
Your household income of $23,683 is higher than 95.0% of all households.
Your household income of $23,684 is higher than 95.0%++ of all households.

Although a monthly household income of $23,684 is presumably the mean rather than median of the top decile, the two figures shouldn't be too far off.

There are ~1,145,900 Resident Households in Singapore. 10% is 114,590 households.

Go ahead and count the number of ministers, pastors and charity CEOs... how many is that? add the idiots on this form who artificially inflate their salaries to be in the excess of millions... now add realistically the number of CXOs of GLCs,GCCs,MNCs. I doubt that the total number of people on this list exceeds 11,459 (1% of resident households) who may earn >100k a month.

The stats my friends are very believable... the idiots who post inflated salaries, are not.

what if CPF is just an empty shell? on paper has money but in fact most of it is gone! scary...

It's not yours until you can actually spend it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
By the time you hit 62, the rules might change again, so my advice is dont rely on your cpf as retirement fund only, you should have some other cash savings, though for you case, you may not be able to save much if you havent started. Good luck.

Upon reaching 55 (depending on before or after July as minimum sum for the year is applicable from month of July), take your total of your special account + ordinary account and less off the minimum sum = amount withdrawable. Please note that there is a minimum sum applicable to your medisave account as well. If there is a shortfall, less the amount (although significantly smaller) as this amount will be transferred to MA to make up shortfall as well.

If you wish to increase your withdrawable amount, you may wish to pledge your property for maximum of half of the applicable minimum sum. e.g. minimum sum 120K, max amount that can be pledge with property is total 60k.

However upon disposal of property, this "property pledge" will automatically be returned to your retirement account from the sales proceed, thus not advisable as your RA earns 4-5% interest per annum.

Withdrawal is once per year (bday to bday). One sincere advise is if you do not need the full amount, withdraw what you need and leave the rest in the OA earning 2.5% interest per annum. You can withdraw again next year. One common misperception is that if you leave it in there its stuck for life. Dont be afraid, rules change but will not affect you once you reach 55. Only those turning 55 thereafter are affected.

Hope this helps. \

Unquote

To be honest, CPF monies are good. The only factor is the time you have to invest in it as well as to a certain extent the uncertainty due to policy changes in the meantime of investment.

I have seen a couple of people with more than 1 mil in Ordinary account and the interest it generates is minimum 30k per annum. Withdraw this every year leaving the 1m in OA allows you to retire very comfortably. And this is just CPF, not counting people that age probably have passive income from rental and other sources.

3 cents worth.

I'm sure you're also someone that looks at his or her CPF statement every month and feel rich like our Zorro Lim.

Obviously if you are as rich as you imply, you wouldn't care if you have millions in your CPF as you must be cash rich enough to support your family and yourself. However, having our own money locked in this ponzi scheme coupled with the pathetic yield provided by the CPF board (that is not even enough to combat inflation) is affecting most Singaporean when they could do much better ultilising the money themselves.

The Government should stop tweaking the rules to this whole scam (whenever they make a mistake in our sovereign funds, the losses made by GIC and Temasak during 08/09 is almost 1/2 of what the world bank estimates as the damages caused during the recent Japan quake. The amount lost can cover the entire Singapore population's HDB conservancy fees for the next century and somemore. I suspect, the sum may even be able to provide universal free education until university for one entire generation) and let us withdraw the entire amount (including the minimum sum) once we hit 55 when it was first promised to us.

Hyperinflation
 

*sigh*

I think everyone in the world should just be psychologically prepared for:

Hyperinflation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If/when that happens, ALL paper currency will become totally worthless, and food will have to be rationed... to say the least!

As for what more could/will happen, just use your imagination, and think of the worst...

Can we have a job description together with all the values?

So many rich people here!!!

All 300k+ cash

Who the hell are you and what job do you do? OMG

26 yr old, shipyard industry, gross pay 3500. Base salary low. Savings 14000.

Are you a diploma holder?

I read this wiki article several times before. Just needed to point out something :

To get into some serious understanding on hyperinflation, you must remember that it cannot be all currencies in the world hyperinflate at the same time. Usually, it will be the case of a single currency/country facing hyperinflation wrt the rest of the world.

If all the world currencies hyper inflates, everyone is back at the same "equivalent". Everyone will be asking for more zeros in the paycheck, etc.

Previously, the world did not have that many financial instruments like swaps, options etc traded freely. So such bubbles could form more easily. Now we have.It does not mean we dont have bubbles, but these bubbles come in more complexity because even individuals can login to swap out their forex exposure now.

When a currency faces hyperinflation, naturally people will do a swap out of that currency into something else like usd.

You only get stuck if you hold that currency that is facing hyperinflation or for some reason you cannot swap out.

So, in all likelyhood, there will still be rich people even when the currencies come down and mayhem is prevalent in the streets... the only thing is you dont know whom holds the powers now...

Let's say the almighty USD hyperinflates (which is possible and even highly probable within this decade), and U.S. Treasuries get dumped by all countries, and COMMODITIES boom to the moon!

Just take 2 of the most important commodities: OIL & WHEAT.

Not only will the market prices of those 2 commodities be ridiculously high, the actual supply of the commodities for sale will be so limited that there could be NO MARKET for them!

What happens when there's no market for a commodity that happens to be a basic necessity for humans to survive, such as WHEAT?
Or even worse, what if there's CROP FAILURE around the world as well?

F-A-M-I-N-E

And this won't just affect the USA alone because, for example, even if the SGD becomes so strong that the USD/SGD rate reaches parity, what's so good about that if the price of oil reaches a thousand or ten thousand or more USD per barrel? Wouldn't the price of oil ALSO reach the same price in terms of SGD as well?

And this is all because the almighty USD happens to be the RESERVE currency of most of the countries of the world.

How Hyperinflation Will Happen In America


I'm not sure what you mean, but if there's worldwide hyperinflation, we'll all need to have a new reformed worldwide currency system, or simply become old-fashioned simple fishing/farming villages again! LOL


I doubt anyone will even be bothered if the price of a $2 loaf of bread reaches $2 million in less than half a year! LOL
(And if anyone wants to know how that can happen, just imagine that $2 loaf of bread doubling in price every week for 20 weeks; that's true hyperinflation)


If there's hyperinflation, what makes you so sure "individuals" can even do that? Even you yourself admit: That "reason" could/would be the COLLAPSE of the MONETARY/FINANCIAL/BANKING/CURRENCY system around the world, when nearly EVERYBODY, except the RICHEST and most POWERFUL people, will get "stuck".


I agree, but I would rather replace the word "rich" with "powerful" because ultimately, it's those who somehow manage to control a country's military and police that are truly powerful.


I don't think there's a need to know exactly who these people are (it's not possible to know anyway, since the exact people can change), but I think it's more important to at least be aware that there are extremely powerful people in this world (isn't that obvious?) who won't hesitate to make full use of their powers in any way they want, to say the least!

>simply become old-fashioned simple fishing/farming villages again!

This is too alarmist. Even in Zimbabwe, during the worst of the hyperinflation days, people got by. There are ways to get around - bartering is one example. And that was Zimbabwe. Developed countries should be able to cope much better.

wow. .. think better stay on island , buy fishing boat and learn to feed myself if your predictions are true.

Anyway, here is some thoughts

1. U.S. Treasuries get dumped by all countries, and COMMODITIES boom to the moon.

When US gets dumped, of course, all items priced in USD will shoot up.
But that does not mean the other currencies will not counter react against usd. Meaning USD/SGD will drop significantly as well. Hence SGD/bbl will not see such a great price appreciation impact as USD/bbl.


2. Not only will the market prices of those 2 commodities be ridiculously high, the actual supply of the commodities for sale will be so limited that there could be NO MARKET for them!

Why is supply limited or No market for commodities ? Supply is disrupted due to supply disruptions like crop failure, war, etc. Not due to collapse of currency.

3. Originally Posted by lazyplane
Everyone will be asking for more zeros in the paycheck, etc.
I doubt anyone will even be bothered if the price of a $2 loaf of bread reaches $2 million in less than half a year! LOL
(And if anyone wants to know how that can happen, just imagine that $2 loaf of bread doubling in price every week for 20 weeks; that's true hyperinflation)

You have answered my point exactly. Will you work for say 10k per month salary if your food cost is going up to $2 million ? No right ? You will resign, get a new job that pays $100million etc. In short, individuals will rebalance to a new equivalent benchmark to survive.



Finally, this post is too negative for me to think further. But i sense you predict the world is going to die, and we are all going to rot etc. And the way you see it, there is no solution, only to suffer.

So if this is your point, then dont do anything right ?

Or if you do have a solution, then pls share.

Sloshing with liquidity
 

The many postings I see here are consistent with the observation that singapore is flushed with liquidity. The strong property market showed little sign of abating despite the latest government measures.

People here are earning good incomes and have not many avenues to put their money except in properties and stocks.

While I am not surprised to see people in their fifties or even forties with more than 1 fully paid up private homes and cars and flushed with cash, I was really surprised by the younger ones claiming likewise. But then again, when I was in NUS recently, I saw many students driving to attend lessons, and we are talking Mercs, BMWs here and not your beat-up Japanese cars.

So who am to I say who is rich and who is not?

I'm not so sure about that since inhabitants of such countries are much more accustomed to a hi-tech, non-rural lifestyle...


Once again, what makes you so sure, may I ask?
Why would anyone rather sell USD to buy SGD or any other paper currency, when they can sell USD to buy commodities instead?

If there's hyperinflation, isn't it obvious that commodities, especially oil, gold and food, would be in MUCH higher demand than paper currencies?


If there's true hyperinflation, and you own a hundred bags of rice, and you see the price per bag doubling every week for a month, would you sell a single bag at the market price of, say, $80 (assuming the price was at $5 at the start of the month) if there's a high chance that the price would double to $160 a week later, and eventually to over a thousand dollars by the end of the second month?


Of course I won't be working for worthless pieces of paper! LOL


Obviously, I would resign, but what company would be rich enough to make its lowest-ranking employee a billionaire in one month? LOL
Except for the government, which owns a money-printing machine, all companies would go bankrupt or out of business, wouldn't they?


"new equivalent benchmark"? I wonder what that means, but I'm more sure that CHAOS will be the norm for at least a certain period of time.


I'm glad you see my point! :)
But as for "dont do anything right?", I'm not sure what answer I should give you because I'm not sure what solution would be best for you or any other person... :(


All I can think of now is:

"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again."

Obviously, I'm implying that Singapore is like "Humpty Dumpty", but actually, the whole world is also like one big "Humpty Dumpty"!
And of course, "king" = government(s), and his "men and horses" = civil servants (or slaves?) and their vehicles.

Actually, i dont see your point . Ha ha.. sorry, just being honest here.
Cos what you seem to be saying is the world is coming to end... and sorry guys, but there is no solution. Just accept it and be miserable.

Very extreme and negative view leh.. And i am very curious if you really live your life based on this view.

Nevertheless , it was a good discussion !! Love it cos i think your view represents the BLACKEST swan view (And note, not just black but blackest). very very extreme, but if it happens... all die.and all singaporeans better go learn how to do farming or fishing now instead of studying in universities cos singapore got no natural commodities here .... ha ha..

One more thing, i really do love your view, cos it fits me.. i am very lazy.. and such a view give me more "encouragement" to be lazier... * YAWN.....

Laziness is the start of death......

Actually, you DO see my point because you understand it!
(if you look up the dictionary, "see" = "understand")
But I think you probably don't AGREE with it because it's too difficult for you to ACCEPT it, right? ;)


Obviously, I believe that there's a high chance that hyperinflation will happen in the near future, possibly within my lifetime...
So isn't it obvious that I'm trying to be prepared, at least psychologically, for that period of hyperinflation?
There's nothing wrong with being prepared for the worst, is there?


I think you might like this article and the comments:

TODAYonline | Voices | A farmer's life deserves respect

Have you read it before?


Actually, contrary to popular belief or government-brainwashing, Singapore HAS natural resources; it just doesn't have enough for 1-2 million residents, let alone 4-5 million!

If you haven't seen this before, you might want to have a look and see how SEVERELY overpopulated Singapore is compared to all the other countries in the world:

List of countries by real population density (based on food growing capacity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore is a tropical island-country, so it is rich in fishes and fruits, but it only has 10 km² of arable land, enough for maybe a hundred thousand people, or 1,000 large extended families of 100 members each spread out around the 700 km² of land that Singapore has.

10 km² = 10 x 1km x 1km = 10 x 1,000m x 1,000m = 10,000,000 m² = 1,000 hectares

So if each family is apportioned one hectare of arable land, I think that should be more than enough for it to survive comfortably on...

1 hectare = 100m x 100m

I think that should be enough arable land for a family of 100 people, don't you think?

As for their housing, obviously they would be built OUTSIDE the arable land.


Maybe this might give you even more "encouragement":

Nonviolent resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you were truly "encouraged", you would simply have MORE "courage" to do the right thing, no matter what sacrifices you may have to make... to say the least again! ;)

bro my last post on this ... i just want to say u should think a bit more and if u really believe all the stuff u said then show the proof ... saying u r trying to be mentally prepared is like saying u r trying to grow your money by thinking about it only...
put your words to action man... dont just say say like mr clement chiang but dont do... all talk no balls... only bluff naive people...

find help if u can as well. i think i other readers can judge based on previous posts if i have been polite and helpful to clarify your position.

finally we have digress this thread far enough. start a new thread if u still want to talk.

yeah but we r already dying each moment.. and it feels so good to be lazy.

Haven't I given enough proof for my beliefs in my posts?
Unless you mean actual examples of hyperinflation in Singapore NOW?!?!?
Of course, I can't give that kind of proof since hyperinflation has not happened here yet.
Besides, a belief is based on faith, not on "proof".
Just like you believe hyperinflation will not happen, I believe the opposite! ;)

I think maybe now I'm beginning to agree with you that you DON'T see my point! LOL
Because I'm obviously not trying to prepare myself mentally by "growing money", let alone growing money "by thinking about it only".
Being prepared mentally/psychologically does not mean being prepared "financially/monetarily".
Besides, it's NOT possible to be prepared financially/monetarily for hyperinflation because when it happens, paper money will become WORTHLESS, so what's the use of having whatever amounts of paper money?
What I'm psychologically preparing myself for is the actual SUFFERING that will result in Singapore if hyperinflation happens, so that I don't panic, even if there's a famine and I have no choice but to prepare to die of starvation.


Actually, that's what I've been doing for the past few years, i.e. my "action" = regularly reminding myself of the possibility of hyperinflation in Singapore and reminding myself not to panic. :)

You did not include your savings and stocks!

Here's mine,
cash: $250k
gold: $32k
stocks: $0
bonds: $12k

Here is mine... (Honest truth)

Combined with my wife:-(I am 36 and wife 34)

Cash - $450k
Stocks - $150k
Car - Current value $140k (Bal $50k loan)
Apartment - Current value $1.05m (Bal $400k loan)
CPF - OA: $85k