Average Joe
 

Age : late 30s.
Annual : 150K, wife not working, small family.
Cash : 400K
Stock: 100K
Car: Japanese Sedan, fully paid up.

5 room HDB, took up 30 years loan. I have enough in my CPF to repay loan but prefer to keep cash in CPF account.

Considered debt free. Job is stable and gets to spend time with family. Sure, lots of friends doing better, but why compare. Happy as it is.

How do I buy stocks?

The nickname "average Joe" aptly describes your attitude - average. When we compare with others it is not just to see who is richer, but also to see if we are falling behind. We cannot afford to be complacent and "relak" one corner.

Years ago I had a neighbour who was contented and proud that he was earning $3K a month. He told his wife to be a housewife and that he will bring back the bacon. Unfortunately his pay didn't keep pace with the times, and his pay is now below the median income ($6K for 2012) and even further behind when compared with the average household income of $9.6K per month.

Burying one's head in the sand is not an option really.

Bro, your figures are too low. Below is copied from the salary.sg salary comparison page.

Do you also know that the average household living in 5-room and executive HDB flats makes $10,160 a month? And that those living in condos and private apartments earn an average income of $18,060 a month? Landed property dwellers make the most – at $24,039 per month on average.

The 2013 income figures are as below. Big gap in income between the top earners and low earners

Benchmark Your Household Income 2013
by SALARY.SG on MARCH 5, 2013
The average monthly income of households*living in condos is $19,026. For those families living in landed properties, the figure is $25,419. This is according to the Key Household Income Trends 2012 report published by the Singapore Department of Statistics.

The median monthly household income is now $7,570, up from $7,040 last year. If you and your spouse make a combined income of more than $7,570, your family is better off than half the households here.

Those at the upper echelons make much more. The families in the top 10% (“top decile”) make an average of $30,379, which is disproportionately high. The households in the next decile make just half of that, and the figures for the next few deciles go down linearly:



To benchmark your household income, enter your monthly household income (including employer’s CPF contributions): …

I think the graph can be explained by the long tail at the top end. The spread of household income is actually a bell curve (as with most things), with long tails at both ends.

The "top decile" includes the super rich families at the far end as well as the far far end (think Lien and Lee families), hence skewing the statistic. If you look closely at the bottom decile, the opposite skewing occurs there, though not as apparent due to the fact that the floor for income is zero (while the ceiling is infinity).

Please......falling behind what? Can you really find meaning in comparing an arbitrary statistic such as the median income? Why don't you compare yourself with the median income of millionaires instead.

You tracked your neighbour income from 3K to 6K? I'm surprise pay information is something neighbours share.

yeah, that bro might be average, but he sounds happy and contended. Good for him.

I used to have about $300k in cash but decided to invest in a property. Luckily I did that before the cooling measures. The property has doubled in value over the past 6 years and I'm earning very good rent. Cash savings will be eroded away by inflation but property value will go up. If I had not bought that investment property, I can't afford today. Luckily I didn't listen to some people who advised me not to buy. So, don't hold too much cash. Invest it in property, not overseas but Singapore property.

Yes, I detest average Joes, but I detest slightly above average Joe who look down on the average Joes even more..

Why are you quoting median household income? Anyone one with a half decent education would know better.

At this time and age unless you are getting 300K per annum by early 30s or you are not a player at all.



ha.

HDB Dweller & Jap Car
 

Age: early 40's, 2 kids

Annual Income: $100K (mine), wife (not working any more)
Cash: $548K (mine), $439K (wife)

My CPF: $38K (OA), $112K (SA)
My Stock: $20K
My SRS: $12K
My Insurance current value: $12K

Wife CPF: $1K (OA), $7K (SA)
Wife Stock: $4K
Wife Insurance current value: $149K

5rm HDB balance loan $127K
Jap car fully paid

Don't know what to invest for passive income. Thinking property too high, waiting for opportunity to buy more stocks and plan to start up new business.

Time running out as soon would be in the 50's, 60's.

I am not a risk taker and that's explain why I have no 2nd prty and much stocks.

Appreciate for current situation advise.

Thanks.

How did you accumulate so much cash?

I would suggest investing half your cash when the next recession comes. It will be sooner than people expect.

Can understand your urgency to deploy your cash, but this forum is not exactly the right place to seek genuine advice. Have to take things thrown here with more than a pinch of salt.

Sadly though inflation risk is real. For eg, $131k today will be worth only $87K in 10 years time with current inflation rate of 5%. I am having the same problem / worry. What I did was to max out both mine and my spouse's CPF SA to earn the 4% yearly. Because we max it out some years back, and with compounding interest, both our CPF SA have $157K each now!

I have also thrown some money into Reits earning 6 - 8 % returns. So far so good.

Me and wife, both 35

5 room flat: Owes bank 110k, currently valued around 600k
Cash: Combined 270k
Stocks: 130k, yields around 6k dividend a year
Car: Korean, fully paid, left 6 years of COE

Annual income: me, 100k, wife 75k

2 kids.

Any suggestions to grow further? Salary is going to be stuck at this level for a long time. Stock market too high. No money to pay 60% down payment for second property.

This seems to be the same problem many other middle income friends are stuck with.

Build a small online business, or go MBS and RWS! :D

Im graduating and starting a job soon (salary 3.6k)

Managed to save 9k in cash so far
And 6.5k in PM investment
CPF holds 9k in OA (worked part time during uni)

Outstanding loan 7k

me and wife, both 34 year old. wife not working.
renting 3 room HDB

cash in bank account: 120k
CPF: 30k
monthly salary: 5k

I know i am doing badly. any advice on how to maximise use of cash in bank? Thank you.

Try RWS or MBS. If not comfortable, try stocks or forex.

thanks for your reply. I cannot do gambling. So that option is off.
Stocks and forex, i keep hearing about them. I cannot move around much can I do online?

I think you better pay off your HDB loan instead of stored on your CPF account. Don't need to pay interest rate anymore.

I think your family qualify under the low income group scheme. You should apply for HDB BTO and get many grants meant for low income household. You can buy a 3 room flat for $100k after grants. The government is helping many low income families. See your MP for help if necessary.

Here is mine:

25 years old, degree holder, and started work for half a year.....$28k cash (not including CPF)...

Would have $50k more if I did not indulge in gambling at the casinos....but it is never too late to change....completely stayed away for 4 months already with a self-ban....

$28k cash seems okay to me for a fresh grad but heart really pain when thinking of the $50k that i lost.....carefully saved from jobs during uni and NS days....

Now i have to start afresh

Age 31 single,

Cash in Hand: 15k equivilant
Stocks and share: USD15k equivilant
CPF Ordinary only: 91k equivilant
Monthly gross salary: 6k

No debts, no installment, no house, no car....

I dunno what what's wrong with me when it seems everybody here around my age is having so much cash-in-hand than me? I travel alot but i don't gamble and/or have any bad habits and wasting money on alcohol....so i really don't understand how it is you guys can accumulated so much cash.

An overview from here is almost like everyone here is at least a millionaire (or near) in net value.

I also don't really understand. I travel a fair bit too. Had a few vices for about a year. Own 10k+ camera gear and indulge in expensive tailored clothes once in a while. Started work at 25 and somewhat having just about the same "savings" as you with lower income. You sure you not spending too much beyond your means?

Age 28 single.

Cash in Hand: ~16k
Liquid Assets: ~10k forex, ~7k shares
CPF Ordinary only: ~29k
Monthly gross salary: ~3.6k

No debts, no installment, no house, no car, no GF

good question.........although i did travel quite alot due to my backpacking hobby.....travel at least once per quarter...(US, Europe, Australia, APAC, u named it, i've probably been to it)

another reason is maybe i paid quite abit for my insurance and to my mum as allowance per month (as much as 1/3 of my current salary)



p.s. Don't worry about your salary...I was earning the same as you when I was 28-ish..

Single 34 yo.

Cash+stocks : $108K
CPF ordinary only: $41K
5-room hdb : loan outstanding $140K, market value $465K
No car
Annual income: $70K

As a uni grad I'm considered doing very badly. Most of my peers are doing much better than me. Main culprit is my lower income and I also spent quite a lot during my younger days on useless MLM products and paying tithes of more than 10%. I don't go to church nowadays so managed to save up more.

36yo
Hdb fully paid , valued 550k
D9 Condo 2m, loan 1m, rented out 5.5k/mth
KL Condo rented out myr3.5k/mth, myr 250k loan left
Cash 250k, stock 150k, toyota vios fully paid
Base salary 200k + 40k bonus + 25k passive dividend/rental net installment
Next stage is to invest in business or london property

You are doing ok financially as your net worth is close to half a million. The only problem is you are not married. Singles have a higher chance of having a depression when they grow old. Go and get a rich wife, you will be happy and financially secure. Never mind if she is 50 years old. You can do it.

You are very rich, go get a wife to help you spend your money. You will be happy having a wife, then how else to you take care of your man needs?

Here's mine:

Age 37, married
Job: middle management in MNC, $200K base, $20K bonus
Home: landed $2.7M, loan $850K
Cash: $550K
Stocks: $250K
Dividend income: $11K
Car: second hand bmw

Main focus now is alternative income source to be less reliant on corporate job security

I'm amazed at all your salaries and investments. Made me learn a lot from you guys! Now i know where the high income people come from.

You know why they all so much money?

NO KIDS YET.

statiscally speaking only 1 in 10 singaporeans are millionaires, and most millionaires i know don t have time to visit online forums everyday. So I guess either we ve got millionaires from all over the world reporting their net worth here, or maybe millionaires do have plenty of time to visit online forums after all

millionaires have much more free time than you expect. social media and casinos are a godsend to them. they used to just hang around in country clubs and hotel cafes.

Yes, nowadays there are young millionaires who are tech savvy and connected online and via social media. Being a young millionaire myself, I am very much connected. Gone are the days when millionaires are old uncles and aunties. Young millionaires like myself don't go around flashing our wealth, we dress like any other guy and we drive a simple conti car instead of million dollar sports car. The real rich guys invest their money and they don't look rich. So if you see some guy walking along Orchard Road and he is dressed simply, don't look down at him, he could be me, a young multi millionaire. I'm now actually sipping coffee in a cafe along Orchard Road.

Many Singaporean millionaires also do not feel rich. This is primarily because the net worth came from the inflated value of their primary home. Also the mandatory savings in their CPF take up another huge chunk, for some it could be as much as $1m!

So their disposal income may not be high. Finally you dont see yourself as rich when living among many millionaires (>100,000) or near-millionaires here.

Here is my savings journey.

Started work in 1983 immediately after NUS - pay was $1800 pm. Saved $500 pm
3 yrs later, 1986, spent all my savings to buy 1st car- Datsun 120Y. Zero saving, but proud car owner. (nowadays young people must drive conti car then got pride)

1986 - 89, saved $1k pm. Got married in 89. Together with spouse's saving bought HDB exec flat. Again zero savings, but this time got loan of $100k to service.

1990 - 95, now as working couple, and also earning more, saved more - $25k - $30k pa
1998 - upgraded to condo. Increased debt to $250k. But savings per yr also increased to $50k pa.

2003 - bought 2nd condo for investment. Debt increased to $500k
2003 - 2005 savings per yr increased to $100k. Housing loan serviced by rental.

2005 - 2010 savings increased to $150k - $180k pa. Augmented by dividend income
2010 - now savings at $250k pa including $80k dividend & rental income. Loan cleared.

That's not bad. For me, I save $500k pa and donate $300k pa. Hope to donate more to the poor in the future.

It is good to be charitable whatever your religion. Giving must come from the heart and not something to gloat over. The jury is still out whether it is better to just give money or to create jobs.

I believe the best of form of welfare is to create jobs for the people. People get dignity and pride when they work for their money. People want to feel useful and needed.

Consider this simple economic cycle and see if blind charity is better than creating jobs.
The car you buy will provide a job for the car salesman, the service guy to maintain your car, the petrol station guy for the petrol, COE administration for the LTA staff and so forth. By being too thrifty, you are instead killing jobs.

Will the money you saved and then give to charity to the jobless people make them feel better? Will it help them help themselves? Dont think so.

I'm 51 and my savings is only $1m, I'm sad cos my friends have more than me, their savings are at least $4m or more. How can I retire? Do I have to work till I reach 80 years old? Or should I retire somewhere else?

i'm close to your age. 46 single. my savings per year is $15k.
I get $38xx per month.
How much you paid?