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Too many foreigners in Singapore? (Poll)

View Poll Results: Are there too many foreigners in Singapore?
I'm a citizen - Yes, there are too many foreigners. 159 67.09%
I'm a citizen - No, the number of foreigners is OK. 16 6.75%
I'm a PR - Yes, there are too many foreigners. 28 11.81%
I'm a PR - No, the number of foreigners is OK. 13 5.49%
I'm a foreigner - Yes, there are too many foreigners. 12 5.06%
I'm a foreigner - No, the number of foreigners is OK. 9 3.80%
Voters: 237. This poll is closed

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 12:17 PM
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Close to 80% of PRs have university degrees, compared to about 15% of Singaporeans. I think there is confusion over the term FT. FT should refer to PRs and Employment Pass holders, not the 200,000 on S Passes and work permits who have to leave after a few years. Generally, FT are more qualified than most Singaporeans, but the temporary workers are not. There are very few Singaporeans in top management of Singapore MNCs because most highly qualified Singaporeans prefer to work for the Govt or are bonded because of a scholarship. The lesser qualified Singaporeans usually work for FT bosses, hence the unhappiness.
You are the one who is really confuse. Most top management of Singapore MNCs are Singaporeans, and most FTs are in the middle management and middle-level executives who are no better than any average Singaporeans. Most of these FTs who come over because they cannot do well in their own country for whatever reasons. The unhappiness is not because of working for FT bosses, but rather, the huge amount of incapable FTs who claim to be talented but prove to be otherwise, costing Singaporeans their opportunities and affecting our productivity. We welcome REAL talents, and not lamers like most of them are.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:37 PM
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Your argument does not make sense. If top management is Singaporean, why are they hiring FT over Singaporeans. It is when top management becomes FT that a lot of middle management FTs enter the organization because they don't preference Singaporeans.

On MNCs, it depends on the sector. In manufacturing (which is dying) there are locals as heads e.g., HP, IBM etc., but definitely not in the services sectors like financial services. In fact, even Singapore GLCs like SGX, DBS and OCBC have foreign CEOs. Once you bring in FT as CEOs, they are not afraid to bring in more FT to run the departments.

Unfortunately for Singaporeans, private firms can use meritocracy to decide whom they want to hire, not the person's citizenship. If you want preferential treatment as a Singaporean, work for the Government or some GLC that is still run by a Singaporean. There are plenty of them. Why choose to work in companies where you have to compete with the rest of the world.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:00 PM
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You are the one who is really confuse. Most top management of Singapore MNCs are Singaporeans, and most FTs are in the middle management and middle-level executives who are no better than any average Singaporeans. Most of these FTs who come over because they cannot do well in their own country for whatever reasons. The unhappiness is not because of working for FT bosses, but rather, the huge amount of incapable FTs who claim to be talented but prove to be otherwise, costing Singaporeans their opportunities and affecting our productivity. We welcome REAL talents, and not lamers like most of them are.
As a "FT" from a western country who has been here for awhile, I can tell you that me and my friends come over not because we aren't doing well in our countries, but because Singapore taxes are so low and we save a lot being here. Also, the business climate in my home country isn't good anymore, so the best and the brightest are heading to Asia/Singapore because they are better than the rest and can get jobs here. The bad ones are left behind in a stagnant economy. An appreciating S$ also is a strong incentive.

I'm a mid level manager in financial services and the Singaporeans on my level aren't bad, but except for the ones that were educated and worked overseas, they have some traits that put them at a disadvantage, mainly in their verbal and sometimes in their written communication skills. Also, many of them have not worked in an extremely competitive environment e.g., London or New York and lack some of the type of motivation that you derive from a difficult and competitive working environment. Lastly, many Singaporeans want a life and have a large social network, whereas the foreigners have hardly any social network and are therefore more focussed on their work. That seems to negatively affect Singaporeans in promotions etc. However, the Singaporeans with good foreign degrees, and who have worked abroad, are toe to toe with the foreigners.

In my business, you are competing with other financial centers like HK, so you need internationally competitive people. If you put in preferential treatment for Singaporeans in an internationally competitive industry, you will be beaten by other countries. You only need to look to Malaysia to see how the "Bumiputra Policy" where, at minimum, you are forced to have to have 1/3 of your employees to be Malay, has resulted in happy bumiputeras, but internationally uncompetitive companies.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Your argument does not make sense. If top management is Singaporean, why are they hiring FT over Singaporeans. It is when top management becomes FT that a lot of middle management FTs enter the organization because they don't preference Singaporeans.

On MNCs, it depends on the sector. In manufacturing (which is dying) there are locals as heads e.g., HP, IBM etc., but definitely not in the services sectors like financial services. In fact, even Singapore GLCs like SGX, DBS and OCBC have foreign CEOs. Once you bring in FT as CEOs, they are not afraid to bring in more FT to run the departments.

Unfortunately for Singaporeans, private firms can use meritocracy to decide whom they want to hire, not the person's citizenship. If you want preferential treatment as a Singaporean, work for the Government or some GLC that is still run by a Singaporean. There are plenty of them. Why choose to work in companies where you have to compete with the rest of the world.
You have the herd mentality, so because top management are Singaporeans, they have to hire Singaporeans? And those companies you mentioned, MOST of the top management are Singaporeans (if you know what top management means). Its precisely what you bunch of cheapskates will do, one come in will bring in the rest, regardless of their capability (you mentioned yourself) and this is deem unhealthy to our progress. Get it? Numb-skull.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
As a "FT" from a western country who has been here for awhile, I can tell you that me and my friends come over not because we aren't doing well in our countries, but because Singapore taxes are so low and we save a lot being here. Also, the business climate in my home country isn't good anymore, so the best and the brightest are heading to Asia/Singapore because they are better than the rest and can get jobs here. The bad ones are left behind in a stagnant economy. An appreciating S$ also is a strong incentive.

I'm a mid level manager in financial services and the Singaporeans on my level aren't bad, but except for the ones that were educated and worked overseas, they have some traits that put them at a disadvantage, mainly in their verbal and sometimes in their written communication skills. Also, many of them have not worked in an extremely competitive environment e.g., London or New York and lack some of the type of motivation that you derive from a difficult and competitive working environment. Lastly, many Singaporeans want a life and have a large social network, whereas the foreigners have hardly any social network and are therefore more focussed on their work. That seems to negatively affect Singaporeans in promotions etc. However, the Singaporeans with good foreign degrees, and who have worked abroad, are toe to toe with the foreigners.

In my business, you are competing with other financial centers like HK, so you need internationally competitive people. If you put in preferential treatment for Singaporeans in an internationally competitive industry, you will be beaten by other countries. You only need to look to Malaysia to see how the "Bumiputra Policy" where, at minimum, you are forced to have to have 1/3 of your employees to be Malay, has resulted in happy bumiputeras, but internationally uncompetitive companies.
You are only in the middle management, and you claim to be the one of the best and brightest in your country? The best and brightest do not have to look for other alternatives, for they can survive in any situations, leaving when things turn bad are typical of weaklings. If you leave for reason like challenging yourself, it would be more convincing that you are in the elite group.

Coming here just to escape paying a bit more tax to your government. Your country gave you education and made you what you are today, and you bite the hand that feed you. You are a greedy ingrate. Singapore can only remain competitive if we attract real capable foreigners (I do not think you or the egg head who post before you are in this group), and hopefully they will return the grace by contributing positively to our society and if possible take up citizenship. Anyway, if you are a real talent, you wont be offended by what I said, because, my rant is about big headed fake talents who have a foul mouth.

Before you mock Malaysia and her policies, take a look at your own country, at least Malaysia is not the one with high unemployment rate and crumbling economy.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 08:17 AM
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Just because the middle positions are the ones which Singaporeans target, and the ones which are being snatched away by foreigners, Singaporeans tend to define FT at the very end of the ladder, i.e., the Executives.

The question to ask is what if the same singaporeans got similar chances in HK or US. These folks who can never step out of Singapore, can always bitch about the intentions of foreigners, say save taxes. Why dont they go out for, say driving cars. The fact is those who can do, and those who cant, make it look like they are here for Singapore. Sour Grapes !

My belief is that for every singaporean, there are atleast 50 foreigners who can do the job better. But people who live in a pond cannot see this. They have a inflated opinion of their own talent. If they were really talented, they wont have to bitch on this site. Insecured Losers !
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 10:47 AM
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JIf they were really talented, they wont have to bitch on this site. Insecured Losers !
Thats exactly what you are doing, dumb ass!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 11:20 AM
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Just because the middle positions are the ones which Singaporeans target, and the ones which are being snatched away by foreigners, Singaporeans tend to define FT at the very end of the ladder, i.e., the Executives.

The question to ask is what if the same singaporeans got similar chances in HK or US. These folks who can never step out of Singapore, can always bitch about the intentions of foreigners, say save taxes. Why dont they go out for, say driving cars. The fact is those who can do, and those who cant, make it look like they are here for Singapore. Sour Grapes !

My belief is that for every singaporean, there are atleast 50 foreigners who can do the job better. But people who live in a pond cannot see this. They have a inflated opinion of their own talent. If they were really talented, they wont have to bitch on this site. Insecured Losers !
So immature, you dare to claim yourself a talent when you cannot even defend your shallow belief with any valid points? Talking big is useless, I dare you to post your portfolio here. And do not even think of asking me to post first (you moron). I am not the one who claim to be a talent. You are the insecure twit who keep selling how great you are online without any solid proof. Comparing SG with US or HK is like comparing apple and orange, the policies and economic conditions are so different. So spare us the bullshit that you are know much, when you are so ignorant. You just make yourself a good example of FTrash that are hiding within the bandwagon of REAL foreign talents.

By the way, you make a real good point - "If they were really talented, they wont have to bitch on this site". You are a real sub-retard.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 11:42 AM
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So I hurt you morons. And no wonder, its raining abuses on me. Your right. I should not compare HK and SG bcus SG cannot survive on its own, so needs FTs. SG does not have much to boast except the fact that the leaders have created an environment where outsiders can do business and hire outsiders.

You guys are simply the case who have NO Choice. I have a PHD degree and am able to work Globally [which means US, SG, JAPAN, etc]. While you people are stuck in Singapore bcus noone outside SG will hire you. And, hence the frustration.

Your abuse does not matter since I am not someone who needs Singapore as much as you. If I am not getting a good deal, I can work elsewhere.

And ya, I think most locals are not that good. Thats why, you are being replaced. Lazy Incompetent Frustrated Stuck in the rat race u call Singapore.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You are only in the middle management, and you claim to be the one of the best and brightest in your country? The best and brightest do not have to look for other alternatives, for they can survive in any situations, leaving when things turn bad are typical of weaklings. If you leave for reason like challenging yourself, it would be more convincing that you are in the elite group.

Coming here just to escape paying a bit more tax to your government. Your country gave you education and made you what you are today, and you bite the hand that feed you. You are a greedy ingrate. Singapore can only remain competitive if we attract real capable foreigners (I do not think you or the egg head who post before you are in this group), and hopefully they will return the grace by contributing positively to our society and if possible take up citizenship. Anyway, if you are a real talent, you wont be offended by what I said, because, my rant is about big headed fake talents who have a foul mouth.

Before you mock Malaysia and her policies, take a look at your own country, at least Malaysia is not the one with high unemployment rate and crumbling economy.
I didn't claim to be the best and the brightest, nor suggest that I was in top management. You aren't very good in reading Thanks to the Singapore Government's Global City initiative, finance is booming here and a lot of money, jobs and the wealthy are moving to Singapore. Many foreigners in private banking are simply following their clients.

I believe that I already contribute to Singapore by paying taxes and contribute to the economy more than most. I can understand that someone from Cambodia or Indonesia might want to take up Singapore citizenship, but most westerners won't and we do contribute to the economy. The Singapore Government certainly sees this, but unfortunately, the cost of progress is social pain and bitter people like yourself. However, I think that over time, the bitterness will pass, and we will learn to live together.
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