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Deputy Director or Director - Civil Service earns?

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 08:04 PM
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deputy directors in the polytechnic are quite free and relax.

every morning accompany their Director for kopi
There are really too many management level people in our educational institutions.

Is there a need for so many "strategists" and thinkers? I think more doers are needed instead.

Educational institutions like polys are non-profit and there's always a market (students) - any idiot can manage the show under such circumstances.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 14-08-2014, 12:07 AM
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There are really too many management level people in our educational institutions.

Is there a need for so many "strategists" and thinkers? I think more doers are needed instead.

Educational institutions like polys are non-profit and there's always a market (students) - any idiot can manage the show under such circumstances.
DDs and Directors in civil service can hardly be called "strategists" and "thinkers". Despite the fancy title, they are just junior or mid level managers. The real thinkers out there are the AOs posted at MOE HQ or PSD.

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 14-08-2014, 11:51 PM
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DDs and Directors in civil service can hardly be called "strategists" and "thinkers". Despite the fancy title, they are just junior or mid level managers. The real thinkers out there are the AOs posted at MOE HQ or PSD.
As long as you no massive c0ck up or offend some big shot, DD is the default end rank for a degree non-scholar in civil service. In the good old days it was called Deputy Manager / Superintendent, now giving big title thats all.

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 19-08-2014, 12:12 PM
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DDs and Directors in civil service can hardly be called "strategists" and "thinkers". Despite the fancy title, they are just junior or mid level managers. The real thinkers out there are the AOs posted at MOE HQ or PSD.
DDs think about how to be promoted to D.
Ds think about how to look good in meetings with the DS or PS.
AOs think and strategize about their next posting.



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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 20-08-2014, 12:48 AM
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Credit Swiss in Singapore has more than 200 directors. For a company with about 3000 staff, that is some number. Looks like every manager in CS carries the destination of a Director. Are our ministries becoming much the same?

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Originally Posted by babymango View Post
thanks for the info!

Asst Dir and Deputy Dir are the same thing, as far as i know - some ministries call them assistants, and some deputy, it means junior or second in command director basically and are the same thing i was told.

i think you are very right about this abusing of the title theory - i know someone who became assistant deputy director at 32 years old, and she had been working since age 26 years old at ministries - i never could understand how someone can be a deputy anything with just 6 years of experience!??! You're right! That's mid management at most!

How old is your friend btw when he became Senior AD? The one who whom you spoke about.... probably early - mid 30's?


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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 20-08-2014, 07:59 AM
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As long as you no massive c0ck up or offend some big shot, DD is the default end rank for a degree non-scholar in civil service. In the good old days it was called Deputy Manager / Superintendent, now giving big title thats all.
DD/MX10 is the CEP for most is applicable 10 yrs ago. Today I think is a bit more challenging. Workforce more educated, middle mgrs (SAD, DD) getting younger so most may not get to DD. Actually, I think quite a big pool will end their career at AD/MX11.
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Old 20-08-2014, 08:04 AM
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Credit Swiss in Singapore has more than 200 directors. For a company with about 3000 staff, that is some number. Looks like every manager in CS carries the destination of a Director. Are our ministries becoming much the same?
I think the public service is slightly better. SAD/DD/MX10 is ard 5% and D/MX9 & above is ard 2% of the staff strength. To get to top 7% of your cohort is not as easy as it seems.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 20-08-2014, 09:35 AM
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DD/MX10 is the CEP for most is applicable 10 yrs ago. Today I think is a bit more challenging. Workforce more educated, middle mgrs (SAD, DD) getting younger so most may not get to DD. Actually, I think quite a big pool will end their career at AD/MX11.
You may be right, one of my CS friends told me they started to introudce this SAD title a few years ago because there were just too many people hanging out at the DD level.

Regardless, I do not agree with this policy by CS to inflate titles. They are supposed to be civil servants, serve the public and set a good employment example. I can understand paying them competitive to private sector, but inflating titles and creating all sorts of servants who now call themselves XX Director? Quite show off and send the wrong message I think.

This also hurt the trust in public sector when some junior staff get into trouble and misbehave, newspaper report them as XX Director then sometimes the public misunderstand and start to think there is big problem because they thought the culprit is part of the senior leadership team.

Amy Cheong from NTUC, and the 2 corruption guys from NParks & LTA are case in point. A lot of people actually react strongly because these 3 idiots have big titles and people thought they represent the senior management in government.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 20-08-2014, 10:08 AM
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You may be right, one of my CS friends told me they started to introudce this SAD title a few years ago because there were just too many people hanging out at the DD level.

Regardless, I do not agree with this policy by CS to inflate titles. They are supposed to be civil servants, serve the public and set a good employment example. I can understand paying them competitive to private sector, but inflating titles and creating all sorts of servants who now call themselves XX Director? Quite show off and send the wrong message I think.

This also hurt the trust in public sector when some junior staff get into trouble and misbehave, newspaper report them as XX Director then sometimes the public misunderstand and start to think there is big problem because they thought the culprit is part of the senior leadership team.

Amy Cheong from NTUC, and the 2 corruption guys from NParks & LTA are case in point. A lot of people actually react strongly because these 3 idiots have big titles and people thought they represent the senior management in government.
True. Stick to mgr is sufficient. Maybe CS can't pay the pple well so inflate their title to make them feel a bit better. Haha. The real supervisory position is DD onwards. & I do agree DD is quite a big title. Maybe just call them Senior Manager will do.
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Old 20-08-2014, 10:52 AM
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True. Stick to mgr is sufficient. Maybe CS can't pay the pple well so inflate their title to make them feel a bit better. Haha. The real supervisory position is DD onwards. & I do agree DD is quite a big title. Maybe just call them Senior Manager will do.
CS actually pays quite well for the real level they are at.

I have a CS friend with AD title, he keep complaining underpaid compare to pte sector. But thats because he compare himself to a AD out in pte sector when he is actually more like a AM job in real life.
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